Belichick's 'prove it' time table.

[sb1]

An offensive minded HC like Reid or Payton probably get 7 wins or more.

With Cam Newton at QB, nothing at TE and little at WR and a very sub par defense? Don’t see how.

Even Brady couldn’t save this group.

 

[amfootball]

With Cam Newton at QB, nothing at TE and little at WR and a very sub par defense? Don’t see how.

Even Brady couldn’t save this group.

I don't believe either Reid or Payton stay with Cam. And both are much better than Bill/Josh at coming up with creative offensive game plans based on personnel.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

They are both the GOATS in my opinion but does anyone think another coach could have won 7 games with our team this year with the talent we had. I would be shocked if any other coach wins 2 games.
Tom, no need to elaborate how important he is/was.

Oh come on...I think Bill is a great coach, but let's be consistent and not continue to move the goalposts. Most pundits and experts, and most fans, thought the Patriots would win 8-9 games or perhaps 10-11 if everything went right. I realize they lost some players due to opt-outs, but it's not like they had some devastating injury to their franchise QB or something to point to that would indicate they were much, much worse in talent than they appeared prior to the season.

Even after the Covid opt-outs, Vegas had them as an 8-9 win team on the over/under.

You'd be shocked if any other coach won 2 games? Ridiculous. Sorry. We can't heap praise that doesn't mesh with objective facts and retroactively change reality to fit a narrative. This was not a 1 win roster carried to 7 wins by mystical coaching and 5d chess strategies.

 

[sb1]

I don't believe either Reid or Payton stay with Cam. And both are much better than Bill/Josh at coming up with creative offensive game plans based on personnel.

If their alternatives were Stidham and Hoyer? Yikes.

 

[ashley]

These are the players Bill hand picked and wanted to roll with. So basically you're saying Bill didn't do a good job as GM?

So you're problem is Bill the GM and not Bill the coach?

 

[amfootball]

If their alternatives were Stidham and Hoyer? Yikes.

They wouldn't have been.

 

[jmt57]

Does Belichick truly need to 'prove it'? Let's forget about BB for a moment, and look at some other all-time great head coaches.

Don Shula
Missed the playoffs six times in eight years towards the end of his career. 13 seasons with Dan Marino, who at that time was considered the GOAT - with zero rings and just one SB appearance during that time.

Tom Landry
Finished his career with three consecutive losing seasons. Began his career with a winless season; did not have a winning season until Year 7.

Paul Brown
Had one of the greatest QBs of all time (Otto Graham) for nine years, and then a player long considered to be the greatest player in pro football history (Jim Brown) for five seasons. Three NFL championships but none over his final 15 years as a head coach.

Chuck Noll
After his fourth Super Bowl Noll coached for twelve more seasons. During that time the best the Steelers did was 10-6 (and that was just once), with just two playoff victories and missing the playoffs entirely eight times.


Conclusion: in terms of coaching legacy the public will look past losing seasons or a mediocre finish to a career - with one caveat: that head coach must have at least one Super Bowl championship. (Otherwise how can one rationalize Tony Dungy being in the Hall?) Case in point:

Marty Schottenheimer
Here is a coach that few consider to be one of the all time greats, due to zero Super Bowl rings. Schottenheimer ranks 8th all-time with 200 wins, which is more wins than over a dozen Hall of Fame coaches (Noll, Parcells, Bud Grant, Joe Gibbs, Bill Cowher, Hank Stram, John Madden etc.). Jimmy Johnson is a good example: despite a career record of 80-64 he is in thanks to two Super Bowl wins while his 63rd ranked win total is overlooked.

Bottom line: Belichick has six Super Bowl victories as a head coach (plus two as a DC). The precedent has already been set: he has nothing to prove. He could finish his career similar to Landry, Noll or Brown and it shouldn't change a thing. To say otherwise is just media click bait/sports talk radio contrived controversy.

 

[sb1]

Oh come on...I think Bill is a great coach, but let's be consistent and not continue to move the goalposts. Most pundits and experts, and most fans, thought the Patriots would win 8-9 games or perhaps 10-11 if everything went right. I realize they lost some players due to opt-outs, but it's not like they had some devastating injury to their franchise QB or something to point to that would indicate they were much, much worse in talent than they appeared prior to the season.

Even after the Covid opt-outs, Vegas had them as an 8-9 win team on the over/under.

You'd be shocked if any other coach won 2 games? Ridiculous. Sorry. We can't heap praise that doesn't mesh with objective facts and retroactively change reality to fit a narrative. This was not a 1 win roster carried to 7 wins by mystical coaching and 5d chess strategies.

I predicted 9-7 and on the playoff bubble assuming a well coached team with good defense that carries over from last season, and a decent passing game from Cam Newton or Jarrett Stidham with a little creativity to utilize Cam as a runner. And an AFC East that looked like it did last season.

If I had known what the team would look like instead- I would have predicted 2-14.

 

[ashley]

Oh come on...I think Bill is a great coach, but let's be consistent and not continue to move the goalposts. Most pundits and experts, and most fans, thought the Patriots would win 8-9 games or perhaps 10-11 if everything went right. I realize they lost some players due to opt-outs, but it's not like they had some devastating injury to their franchise QB or something to point to that would indicate they were much, much worse in talent than they appeared prior to the season.

Even after the Covid opt-outs, Vegas had them as an 8-9 win team on the over/under.

You'd be shocked if any other coach won 2 games? Ridiculous. Sorry. We can't heap praise that doesn't mesh with objective facts and retroactively change reality to fit a narrative. This was not a 1 win roster carried to 7 wins by mystical coaching and 5d chess strategies.

Did you watch any of our games this year? Between injuries and opt outs there was no talent on the team...if you don't understand this and think any coach could have won 7 games this year, then I feel sorry for you.

 

[sb1]

They wouldn't have been.

Then Cam wouldn’t have been here for long if we had anyone good as our backups.

 

[TheRainMaker]

So you're problem is Bill the GM and not Bill the coach?

That wasn't my question.

Did you watch any of our games this year? Between injuries and opt outs there was no talent on the team

HT was the only significant opt out. Cannon was on the decline. There wasn't many injuries that prevented them from being in playoff contention. You say there was no talent on the team. Whose fault is that?

 

[jmt57]

LOL.

A response to the question of "So your problem is Bill the GM and not Bill the coach?" in a thread about the head coaching legacy is answered with "You say there was no talent on the team. Whose fault is that?"


smh

 

[ashley]

That wasn't my question.

HT was the only significant opt out. Cannon was on the decline. There wasn't many injuries that prevented them from being in playoff contention. You say there was no talent on the team. Whose fault is that?

How about Chung, LaCosse, Bolden, Cannon and all the injuries...Edleman, Gillmore, Rex, Wynn, Mason, Cam missed a few games as well...you don't think having some of those players would have made a difference?

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Did you watch any of our games this year? Between injuries and opt outs there was no talent on the team...if you don't understand this and think any coach could have won 7 games this year, then I feel sorry for you.

You should feel sorry for me for many reasons, but that’s not one

 

[RIpats88]

Oh come on...I think Bill is a great coach, but let's be consistent and not continue to move the goalposts. Most pundits and experts, and most fans, thought the Patriots would win 8-9 games or perhaps 10-11 if everything went right. I realize they lost some players due to opt-outs, but it's not like they had some devastating injury to their franchise QB or something to point to that would indicate they were much, much worse in talent than they appeared prior to the season.

Even after the Covid opt-outs, Vegas had them as an 8-9 win team on the over/under.

You'd be shocked if any other coach won 2 games? Ridiculous. Sorry. We can't heap praise that doesn't mesh with objective facts and retroactively change reality to fit a narrative. This was not a 1 win roster carried to 7 wins by mystical coaching and 5d chess strategies.

That prediction was based on Cam newton being at least 80% of cam newton of 2018. Instead we got a guy who threw 8 TD's (3 of them in the final game of the season) over a 15 game span and 10 interceptions. We barely got even below average QB play and went 7-9. in comparison look at the Atlanta Falcons who have talent out the wazoo and a QB who is legit. They won LESS games than us.

 

[ashley]

You should feel sorry for me for many reasons, but that’s not one

Good sense of humor, always a good quality

 

[amfootball]

That prediction was based on Cam newton being at least 80% of cam newton of 2018. Instead we got a guy who threw 8 TD's (3 of them in the final game of the season) over a 15 game span and 10 interceptions. We barely got even below average QB play and went 7-9. in comparison look at the Atlanta Falcons who have talent out the wazoo and a QB who is legit. They won LESS games than us.

They didn't get to play the Jets twice.

 

[jmt57]

"There wasn't many injuries that prevented them from being in playoff contention."

The Denver loss was fully attributable to injuries. The offensive line consisted of Justin Herron-Isaiah Wynn-Joe Thuney-Michael Onwenu-Jermaine Eluemunor. Then Eluemunor left late in the first quarter due to an ankle injury, which forced Hjalte Froholdt into the game.

The Patriots were essentially without their best skill player (Julian Edelman) from week two on. After the eight-reception, 179 yard game at Seattle, Edelman was a complete non-factor. The offense went south after Rex Burkhead's injury late in the year. There was a notable difference on offense when Wynn, Mason or Andrews were out (a combined 13 games). The best player on defense (Gillmore) missed five games.

Every team has to deal with injuries. But the Pats did not have enough decent depth to overcome those injuries.

 

[TheRainMaker]

How about Chung, LaCosse, Bolden, Cannon and all the injuries...Edleman, Gillmore, Rex, Wynn, Mason, Cam missed a few games as well...you don't think having some of those players would have made a difference?

No, it wouldn't have been enough. The positions that were the glaring difference that wins you games in the NFL were QB and WR/TE who were among the worst. Front seven comes in the close 2nd. And why would you even include LaCosse in this conversation? Edelman was gassed by week 2 against the Seahawks and was coming off of a bad year last year. Chung and Cannon were also on the decline. Cannon wasn't missed during camp and Onwenu made people forget about him. Ditto with Phillips. Made Chung expendable. Although Rex was having a fine year, he was not a significant loss. Bolden is not winning you any games. This is Wynn's 3rd year on IR. We should get used to that. Mason wasn't gone long enough to be a significant loss. Gilmore looked disinterested in this season even when he was playing.

But you seem to be dodging my question again. You say their was a lack of talent, but you can't answer whose fault that is?

 

[fightingirish595]

You should feel sorry for me for many reasons, but that’s not one

Good sense of humor, always a good quality

he has a wife