PATRIOTS NEWS Belichick criticism mega-thread

[TheRainMaker]

Also the fact that he didn't pick Tom 1st overall adds to the luck. Bill had to be convinced by the QBs coach to take Brady.

Bill lucked into Brady, but he was brilliant to acknowledge it and not turn the team back to the 100mil QB when he was healthy.

Yep, I was "ride or die" with Bledsoe, but realized Brady had to be the guy right after the Saints game where he was named the starter and they blew them out.

 

[gobesmug]

Sticking with players because of their contract status is one of the biggest mistakes that coaches/GMs make. Not falling into that trap is one of Bill's strengths.

Exactly. Unfortunately that philosophy cost the team the GOAT for his last few years.

Bill has to prove by winning that he made the right decision otherwise he deserves the egg that is on his face right now.

The other issue is that by showing disloyalty to the GOAT QB, it has ruined the appeal for other elite QBs. Stafford, Watson and Wilson have already shown no desire in going to NE.

Bill might have hurt his ability to attract FAs over that move.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Bill isn't some mythical coach that can take any QB and make them a legend, he didn't do it in Cleveland, he didn't do it with Bledsoe and he certainly didn't do it with Cam.

Yep, he drafted many QB's after Brady and got one good year out of Cassell and a couple games from Jimmy G and Brissett.

No coach can ever win without HOF talent in modern football.

This is the test that will be very interesting to see with Bill. How does he win if he doesn't have an elite talent at QB?

Drew was like a lot of strong armed QBs that thought they could put the ball in places that they couldn't or shouldn't. Once I saw Brady in 2001 I could see that he did many things better than Drew.

Drew just flat out didn't like the offense as he was under center a lot when he likes to be in shotgun on obvious passing plays. They went out and got Mike Compton because Damien Woody couldn't snap the ball as weird as that is. He needed a good ground game to set up play action which he was one of the best in the league doing. Needed a deep threat WR as he liked to launch it deep. Needed a security blanket at TE if nothing was open deep. And most importantly, needs very good O-line play. He really couldn't do anything he liked under BB.

 

[1960Pats]

Exactly. Unfortunately that philosophy cost the team the GOAT for his last few years.

Bill has to prove by winning that he made the right decision otherwise he deserves the egg that is on his face right now.

The other issue is that by showing disloyalty to the GOAT QB, it has ruined the appeal for other elite QBs. Stafford, Watson and Wilson have already shown no desire in going to NE.

Bill might have hurt his ability to attract FAs over that move.

I agree with your take on Bill passing on Brady, but I don't think he's an example of the point I was trying to make. I think Bill (mistakenly) believed that Brady was close enough to done to let him walk. Either that or it was personal.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I didn't say he had nothing to do with it. I gave credit that Bill knew how to coach HOF talent.

No one can create HOF talent, it's up to the player themselves to do it.

Bill isn't some mythical coach that can take any QB and make them a legend, he didn't do it in Cleveland, he didn't do it with Bledsoe and he certainly didn't do it with Cam.

No coach can ever win without HOF talent in modern football.

Even Bill acknowledges that coaches like Brown and Chuck Knoll revolutionized the game of football.

Acknowledging Bill had a major part in developing Tom into a HOF QB is all i'm looking for.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Drew was like a lot of strong armed QBs that thought they could put the ball in places that they couldn't or shouldn't. Once I saw Brady in 2001 I could see that he did many things better than Drew.

Agree. No question.

 

[gobesmug]

I agree with your take on Bill passing on Brady, but I don't think he's an example of the point I was trying to make. I think Bill (mistakenly) believed that Brady was close enough to done to let him walk. Either that or it was personal.

Fair, you were speaking more about the active roster itself. Bill would never play a 1st round draft pick over a 7th Rd draft pick just because of where they were taken.

He started Alphonso Denard while kept everyone's favorite safety Tavon Wilson on ST only

 

[RobertWeathers]

Also the fact that he didn't pick Tom 1st overall adds to the luck. Bill had to be convinced by the QBs coach to take Brady.

Bill lucked into Brady, but he was brilliant to acknowledge it and not turn the team back to the 100mil QB when he was healthy.

Let's agree to acknowledge every NFL team passed on Tom.

Bill told Grier to call Lloyd Carr about Tom. Only one NFL called Carr.

Bill sent Rehebin out to workout Tom privately. Only one NFL team did that.

Bill pulled the trigger to draft Tom in the 6th round.

If you want to call it luck fine. I'll give you that. The draft is all about luck and how the cards a dealt.

What you do with those cards requires planning and patience.

Bill was Mike McDermott and the NFL was Teddy KGB.

 

[gobesmug]

Acknowledging Bill had a major part in developing Tom into a HOF QB is all i'm looking for.

He had a major part because he recognized the talent and kept him on the depth chart at #4 his rookie season, then made him the back up, then stuck with him as the starter.

Brady also could have easily been great under other coaches as well.

Fact is they were the GOAT pair and it sucks that Brady is in a different jersey now. That's on Bill.

 

[gobesmug]

Let's agree to acknowledge every NFL team passed on Tom.

Bill told Grier to call Lloyd Carr about Tom. Only one NFL called Carr.

Bill sent Rehebin out to workout Tom privately. Only one NFL team did that.

Bill pulled the trigger to draft Tom in the 6th round.

If you want to call it luck fine. I'll give you that. The draft is all about luck and how the cards a dealt.

What you do with those cards requires planning and patience.

Bill was Mike McDermott and the NFL was Teddy KGB.

I definitely agree with you on all accounts. It's hard to say if another team would have seen the talent Brady had once he was the roster like Bill did.

Bill definitely knows his team and every player on it. That's definitely a special trait he has as oppose to other coaches.

 

[RobertWeathers]

He had a major part because he recognized the talent and kept him on the depth chart at #4 his rookie season, then made him the back up, then stuck with him as the starter.

Brady also could have easily been great under other coaches as well.

Fact is they were the GOAT pair and it sucks that Brady is in a different jersey now. That's on Bill.

We have no idea if Tom would have had the same success in another system. Speculative.

....and in terms of saying who is at fault. Please. It was mutual and you know it. Tom had no interest in running this ****bag offense.

 

[1960Pats]

Yep, he drafted many QB's after Brady and got one good year out of Cassell and a couple games from Jimmy G and Brissett.

This is the test that will be very interesting to see with Bill. How does he win if he doesn't have an elite talent at QB?

Drew just flat out didn't like the offense as he was under center a lot when he likes to be in shotgun on obvious passing plays. They went out and got Mike Compton because Damien Woody couldn't snap the ball as weird as that is. He needed a good ground game to set up play action which he was one of the best in the league doing. Needed a deep threat WR as he liked to launch it deep. Needed a security blanket at TE if nothing was open deep. And most importantly, needs very good O-line play. He really couldn't do anything he liked under BB.

Drew Bledsoe was one of the most frustrating QBs to watch. For all his talent, he had no feel for when pressure was coming, tried to force the ball into places he shouldn't have, couldn't hit RBs in stride on swing passes and wasn't all that accurate. One of the most frustrating memories I have of him was a horrible "launch it deep" pass that he threw off his back foot in the SB to Shawn Jefferson, who was blowing by the defense up the right sideline. That pass was short by at least 20 yards and was the game ending pick. Why the Pats gave him a 100mil contract is a mystery to me.

 

[1960Pats]

Let's agree to acknowledge every NFL team passed on Tom.

Bill told Grier to call Lloyd Carr about Tom. Only one NFL called Carr.

Bill sent Rehebin out to workout Tom privately. Only one NFL team did that.

Bill pulled the trigger to draft Tom in the 6th round.

If you want to call it luck fine. I'll give you that. The draft is all about luck and how the cards a dealt.

What you do with those cards requires planning and patience.

Bill was Mike McDermott and the NFL was Teddy KGB.

You didn't hear? HOFer Bill Polian had him as a 1st round pick. I guess Polian must have fallen asleep on draft day.

 

[gobesmug]

We have no idea if Tom would have had the same success in another system. Speculative.

....and in terms of saying who is at fault. Please. It was mutual and you know it. Tom had no interest in running this ****bag offense.

But Bill bought the ****bag groceries. Even an amateur like myself saw how AJ Brown was the best route running Wr in 19 draft. Harry and Joewaun were terrible picks.

Imagine if they took AJ Brown and DK Metcalf there instead. Do you think Brady still leaves in that scenario?

Brady has proven in Tamba he doesn't need Bill.

To be fair, If he got drafted by say the Colts he might have been a backup that never had a chance.

Had he been drafted by the Steelers it's possible he has 10 Superbowls. Steelers are a great organization and have the league in their pocket. No lost draft picks for BS accusations.

Speculation can't be proven one way or the other.

 

[gobesmug]

You didn't hear? HOFer Bill Polian had him as a 1st round pick. I guess Polian must have fallen asleep on draft day.

Maybe that's true. He always kept a garbage backup QB for Peyton because he knew his ego couldn't handle competition.

Peyton would have sent his HGH goons to break Brady's legs after the first training camp and Polian knew it.

 

[RobertWeathers]

But Bill bought the ****bag groceries. Even an amateur like myself saw how AJ Brown was the best route running Wr in 19 draft. Harry and Joewaun were terrible picks.

Imagine if they took AJ Brown and DK Metcalf there instead. Do you think Brady still leaves in that scenario?

Brady has proven in Tamba he doesn't need Bill.

To be fair, If he got drafted by say the Colts he might have been a backup that never had a chance.

Had he been drafted by the Steelers it's possible he has 10 Superbowls. Steelers are a great organization and have the league in their pocket. No lost draft picks for BS accusations.

Speculation can't be proven one way or the other.

We can also speculate Tb12 would have frozen out Brown and Metcalf.

What we do know is Tom kicked ass here and BB enabled him.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Imagine if they took AJ Brown and DK Metcalf there instead. Do you think Brady still leaves in that scenario?

The answer is he probably stays. That draft was such a lost opportunity.

 

[TheRainMaker]

We can also speculate Tb12 would have frozen out Brown and Metcalf.

I highly doubt it. They are both big time talents. He only freezes guys because they suck.

 

[gobesmug]

We can also speculate Tb12 would have frozen out Brown and Metcalf.

What we do know is Tom kicked ass here and BB enabled him.

Very fair and well said. Those 20 years were an amazing ride and I'm thrilled to still see Brady playing and excited to see what Bill will do with all this cap space and being in a decent position in the draft.

A Pats vs Bucs Superbowl would be epic.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I highly doubt it. They are both big time talents. He only freezes guys because they suck.

We will never know.