Belichick criticism mega-thread

[patsfanfromoversea]

I am not a long term pats fan, so i can't discuss more then the last two years, but honestly which coach would have gotten us 7 wins and closer to 9 wins than to 5 with that lack of playmaker on defense, WR/TE/QB?

 

[Patsgofor4]

Does Guerrero’s magic j!zz qualify as a PED, because if so Chris’ friend Kevin may be right about Brady after all.

 

[Patsgofor4]

I completely disagree, and I'm a little perplexed as to why any Patriots' fan would bring up camera-gate as a critique of Belichick and his legacy. Belichick not a first-ballot HOFer because of camera-gate? Absolute nonsense. Why peddle this crap?

Inexplicably benching Butler? I can assure you there was an explanation for what occurred. I do not know what happened. You do not know what happened. But something happened and Butler was benched as a result. Was it a legitimate benching? Who knows, and that's where the debate would lie, if we actually had access to that information (which we don't). But "inexplicably" - I really doubt that.

Agree.

TAPING OPPONENTS’ SIGNALS WAS ALLOWED.
TAPING OPPONENTS’ SIGNALS WAS ALLOWED.
#camerafilminglegalthingsinthewronglocationgate

Bill one was of the first to smell the dictator d-bag stench emanating from Goodell.

Regarding Butler, I’ve always felt that he has been remarkably tight-lipped about the benching, even after leaving for Tenn. That makes me think that what he did was bad and the Bill maybe did him a solid by keeping it under wraps. It is pretty remarkable that the truth hasn’t been revealed by now, and there has to be a reason for that. Butler may have broken an absolutely unbreakable rule and from Belichick’s point of view, you either have rules/principles or you don’t, you can’t make exceptions when those principles become inconvenient, no matter how important the game is. Also, Butler was terrible that year, so let’s stop pretending as though Bill benched a Law/Revis/Gilmore or even a peak Samuel-level player.

 

[jmt57]

Are you dense? Yes, he went to Krafts house, but that was after his call to Belichick. It’s really not that hard to understand. Brady gave Bill one last chance because he didn’t want to leave. The call didn’t go well. Once Brady knew for sure Bill wasn’t giving him the 2 year deal he went to Krafts to tell him he was leaving.

If Bill has offered him the Brees deal Brady would still be a Patriot. Bill f*cked up.

I have read this a few times. It reads as if Kraft works for Belichick, not the other way around.

Where was Kraft during those last few seasons? As the owner he can be in as much (or as little) communication with BB as he chooses. Kraft could have also communicated directly to Brady many times prior. And ultimately the final decision on anything (including contracts) is Kraft's, not Belichick's. (See Brown, Antonio for example.)

One other very important, but forgotten fact is that in 2019 Brady asked for a clause in his contract that the Patriots could not use the franchise tag on him. Why would he insist on that? Is making $31 million like Dak Prescott did last year is disrespectful? That alone tells me that Brady had already made up his mind (or very close to it) a year prior that he would be moving on after the 2020 season.

 

[jmt57]

COACHING RECORD IN SEASONS WITHOUT BRADY

1 playoff appearance in 8 seasons. Never won division.



COACHING RECORD IN SEASONS WITH BRADY

17 playoff appearances in 18 seasons. Won division 17 times.

Team​	Year​	Regular season​	Postseason​
Won​	Lost​	Ties​	Win %​	Finish​	Won​	Lost​	Win %​	Result​
NE​	2001​	11​	5​	0​	0.688​	1st in AFC East	3​	0​	1​	Super Bowl XXXVI champions
NE​	2002​	9​	7​	0​	0.563​	2nd in AFC East	—	—	—	—
NE​	2003​	14​	2​	0​	0.875​	1st in AFC East	3​	0​	1​	Super Bowl XXXVIII champions
NE​	2004​	14​	2​	0​	0.875​	1st in AFC East	3​	0​	1​	Super Bowl XXXIX champions
NE​	2005​	10​	6​	0​	0.625​	1st in AFC East	1​	1​	0.5​	Lost to Denver Broncos in AFC Divisional Game
NE​	2006​	12​	4​	0​	0.75​	1st in AFC East	2​	1​	0.667​	Lost to Indianapolis Colts in AFC Championship Game
NE​	2007​	16​	0​	0​	1​	1st in AFC East	2​	1​	0.667​	Lost to New York Giants in Super Bowl XLII
NE​	2009​	10​	6​	0​	0.625​	1st in AFC East	0​	1​	0​	Lost to Baltimore Ravens in AFC Wild Card Game
NE​	2010​	14​	2​	0​	0.875​	1st in AFC East	0​	1​	0​	Lost to New York Jets in AFC Divisional Game
NE​	2011​	13​	3​	0​	0.813​	1st in AFC East	2​	1​	0.667​	Lost to New York Giants in Super Bowl XLVI
NE​	2012​	12​	4​	0​	0.75​	1st in AFC East	1​	1​	0.5​	Lost to Baltimore Ravens in AFC Championship Game
NE​	2013​	12​	4​	0​	0.75​	1st in AFC East	1​	1​	0.5​	Lost to Denver Broncos in AFC Championship Game
NE​	2014​	12​	4​	0​	0.75​	1st in AFC East	3​	0​	1​	Super Bowl XLIX champions
NE​	2015​	12​	4​	0​	0.75​	1st in AFC East	1​	1​	0.5​	Lost to Denver Broncos in AFC Championship Game
NE​	2016​	14​	2​	0​	0.875​	1st in AFC East	3​	0​	1​	Super Bowl LI champions
NE​	2017​	13​	3​	0​	0.813​	1st in AFC East	2​	1​	0.667​	Lost to Philadelphia Eagles in Super Bowl LII
NE​	2018​	11​	5​	0​	0.688​	1st in AFC East	3​	0​	1​	Super Bowl LIII champions
NE​	2019​	12​	4​	0​	0.75​	1st in AFC East	0​	1​	0​	Lost to Tennessee Titans in AFC Wild Card Game

Based on your logic everything is static on every team each and every year. Nothing else ever changes. The only effect on winning is one player: the quarterback. No different than fantasy football, winning is determined by one player. And by the same logic Bill Walsh, Vince Lombardi and Paul Brown are all overrated coaches too.

What happened in Cleveland has been discussed many times, but there is no point in repeating it since your mind is closed and you are unwilling to open it up to any outside thought - with the exception of sports talk radio hosts who thrive and survive off of fan anger. Salespeople love people like you because you are so gullible. Politicians do as well since you are so easily led down a road of telling what you want to hear by, portraying someone else as the bad guy that is keeping you from your utopia.

What I really don't understand is why someone with your state of mind even follows sports? You can't possibly get any enjoyment out of it at all. Are you a masochist?

 

[NE_Zealot]

This is a fruitless exercise IMHO. Brady is one player on a team, intangibles aside. Bill is responsible for coaching the 53-man AND building it, slightly more responsibility than Brady’s duties. This is the 10,000 foot view and there are obviously other facets.

Criticizing the GM side of the coin is fair game however but by and large the media is trying to toss the baby with the bath water.

 

[Boomer B]

I have read this a few times. It reads as if Kraft works for Belichick, not the other way around.

Where was Kraft during those last few seasons? As the owner he can be in as much (or as little) communication with BB as he chooses. Kraft could have also communicated directly to Brady many times prior. And ultimately the final decision on anything (including contracts) is Kraft's, not Belichick's. (See Brown, Antonio for example.)

One other very important, but forgotten fact is that in 2019 Brady asked for a clause in his contract that the Patriots could not use the franchise tag on him. Why would he insist on that? Is making $31 million like Dak Prescott did last year is disrespectful? That alone tells me that Brady had already made up his mind (or very close to it) a year prior that he would be moving on after the 2020 season.

Brady asked for the no franchise tag because in 2018 and 2019 they wouldn’t commit to him more then 1 season. He wanted the Brees 2 yr $50m deal and they wouldn’t give it to him.

Kraft could have done more to keep Brady, but if he did it would likely have meant Belichick moving on. I wonder now if he regrets his decision.

 

[Ring 6]

Brady asked for the no franchise tag because in 2018 and 2019 they wouldn’t commit to him more then 1 season. He wanted the Brees 2 yr $50m deal and they wouldn’t give it to him.

Kraft could have done more to keep Brady, but if he did it would likely have meant Belichick moving on. I wonder now if he regrets his decision.

This is a Swiss cheese argument. If I am to believe that Brady wanted a financial commitment from the team that never made a single attempt to replace him and had no one on the roster who could, then I am to believe Brady’s concern was getting paid for an extra year after he was done. Why would Brady have an issue with taking it year to year? If he can still play he is the the QB of the NE Patriots. The only logic of that request is “I want you to guarantee me 2 years in case I can only play 1”. If the patriots pulled the plug then, and he felt he could still play, he could hit the market.
Brady wanted to leave. All this other stuff is story telling public relations.

And you tip it off by saying Belichick who reportedly was stunned that Brady left would have resigned if the owner found a way to keep the GOAT, the guy belichick said he would rather have than any other QB in NE.
Your mental gymnastics are impressive.

 

[Boomer B]

This is a Swiss cheese argument. If I am to believe that Brady wanted a financial commitment from the team that never made a single attempt to replace him and had no one on the roster who could, then I am to believe Brady’s concern was getting paid for an extra year after he was done. Why would Brady have an issue with taking it year to year? If he can still play he is the the QB of the NE Patriots. The only logic of that request is “I want you to guarantee me 2 years in case I can only play 1”. If the patriots pulled the plug then, and he felt he could still play, he could hit the market.
Brady wanted to leave. All this other stuff is story telling public relations.

And you tip it off by saying Belichick who reportedly was stunned that Brady left would have resigned if the owner found a way to keep the GOAT, the guy belichick said he would rather have than any other QB in NE.
Your mental gymnastics are impressive.

Instead of continuously acting obtuse just listen to people in the know who have connections to Tom. In both these interviews Curran says Tom wanted the 2 yr Brees deal. If you think Curran is lying then so be it, but I’ll believe someone connected like Curran before I’ll believe someone who’s not even remotely close to the situation like you.

 

[sb1]

Yea 2018 really was a disaster of a season.

That decision was the beginning of the end for Brady and Gronk in NE. Without a doubt. There was a reason why there were rumors that Gronk was going to say no mas and walk away after the loss.

2019-2020 was the start of the price that will be paid for that decision.

 

[Ring 6]

Instead of continuously acting obtuse just listen to people in the know who have connections to Tom. In both these interviews Curran says Tom wanted the 2 yr Brees deal. If you think Curran is lying then so be it, but I’ll believe someone connected like Curran before I’ll believe someone who’s not even remotely close to the situation like you.

It’s a public relations message that clearly includes a lot of speculation by a guy who latches on to the issue to score his 5 minutes of fame.
Reality, logic, fact, and common sense tell a different story.

 

[RobertWeathers]

That decision was the beginning of the end for Brady and Gronk in NE. Without a doubt. There was a reason why there were rumors that Gronk was going to say no mas and walk away after the loss.

2019-2020 was the start of the price that will be paid for that decision.

They won the freaking Super Bowl. The 2017 undercurrents did not impact the outcome of the season.

Gronk was going to get cut/traded in 2019 regardless whether Tom liked it or not. His $ did not equal performance anymore.

The BB/TB thing has been beat to death.

Go down the list of talent (besides Tom) that has left since 2018. For fans to expect BB to replenish the roster with reciprocal talent in 1 year is a a pipe dream.

 

[Ring 6]

Awesome. Thanks.

I will take that as you recognizing your comments are misleading and you would never be able to back them up.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

I will take that as you recognizing your comments are misleading and you would never be able to back them up.

By responding to my post with a long-winded denial, you acknowledged that you yourself were the culprit. It was a trap. Better luck next time.

 

[upstater1]

Also, Butler was terrible that year, so let’s stop pretending as though Bill benched a Law/Revis/Gilmore or even a peak Samuel-level player.

Jordan Richards.

 

[Boomer B]

It’s a public relations message that clearly includes a lot of speculation by a guy who latches on to the issue to score his 5 minutes of fame.
Reality, logic, fact, and common sense tell a different story.

Wrong. Anyone who’s listened to Curran the last few years can tell you he’s been right all along. He was writing about the contract unhappiness long before Brady left. You wouldn’t know common sense if it hit you in the face.

 

[Lagaffe_07]

Butler was terrible that year, so let’s stop pretending as though Bill benched a Law/Revis/Gilmore or even a peak Samuel-level player.

He played the highest number of snaps on D that year. If he was terrible why did he played the most?

 

[upstater1]

Can't understand at all why Patriots fans are engaging in this idiocy after seeing league domination for 20 years.

TWENTY FREAKIN' YEARS!!

Come on people, we've been over this. The Patriots won all this time with the greatest QB ever AND incredible roster and cap management, sprinkled on top with the master of adjustments and situational football.

Belichick isn't really the designer of exotic defenses. Instead, Belichick is a master analyst, and he not only figures out what teams need to exploit (the other team's weaknesses) but how to hide his own team's weaknesses, IN ORDER to maximize the team's possibility of winning.

The most amazing stat of the 20 years is that the Patriots' winning % in the division is 74%. The winning % against the rest of the NFL is 74%. The winning % in the playoffs is 74%. That's remarkable in my mind because Belichick has figured out where all the pressure points are, and so he designs a roster that can win consistently, not one that can dominate any one game. With his QB, he knows that gives the team an advantage that takes them over the top. He's able to maintain organizational consistency by doing this, player leadership by doing this, salary cap consistency, and best of all, playbook consistency which makes his practices more productive than any other teams.

Add to that his real coaching genius (adjustments on the fly and emphasis on playing within your limits), and you have the greatest coach of all time. Even the offense shares the defense's mentality, as it takes advantage of the space on the field like no other. And it milks a lead better than any other too.

I played football, but never really delved into the coaching. Now, I'm around soccer coaching a lot as an assistant/manager, even though I never played organized as a kid (soccer was my Dad's favorite sport but my town had neither travel soccer/youth soccer, and my HS didn't even have a soccer team). One of the things we teach our soccer kids is how to overload parts of the field by walling off other parts, forcing the other team to play in tight spaces. Our head coach has a UEFA Pro license and I marvel at his background because I've been around several coaches at the highest levels of American youth soccer (all Americans) and none of them have employed spatial tactics like this guy. He is just other level. And he reminds me of what Belichick and McDaniels are so good at. The exact opposite of what the Tamp Bay Bucs do, as they repeatedly run multiple receivers doing the same route, creating bunches and bodies in the parts of the field they are attacking.

 

[Patsgofor4]

Jordan Richards.

Believe me, I am aware of the horror show that was JR in that game and Butler would have obviously been preferable. I was merely pointing out that Butler was not playing like a CB1 or 2 that year and was perfectly capable of throwing gasoline of his own onto the fire by giving up big plays himself.

 

[upstater1]

Wrong. Anyone who’s listened to Curran the last few years can tell you he’s been right all along. He was writing about the contract unhappiness long before Brady left. You wouldn’t know common sense if it hit you in the face.

Curran was right when he told us about the 2 year contract mess the summer before Brady's final year, and the fact Brady put his house on the market was a big tell.

I bet anything that Brady would have returned if they offered him a 2 year contract last March.