PatsFans.com Menu
PatsFans.com - The Hub For New England Patriots Fans

Bedard speculates on Gronk trade


THE HUB FOR PATRIOTS FANS SINCE 2000

MORE PINNED POSTS:
Avatar
Replies:
312
Very sad news: RIP Joker
Avatar
Replies:
316
OT: Bad news - "it" is back...
Avatar
Replies:
234
2023/2024 Patriots Roster Transaction Thread
Avatar
Replies:
49
Asking for your support
 

Do you think BB will trade Gronk this year?

  • Yes

    Votes: 22 18.8%
  • No

    Votes: 95 81.2%

  • Total voters
    117
  • Poll closed .
Status
Not open for further replies.
we won the superbowl 2 years ago without him.
With Amendola, Lewis and Solder on offense. And perhaps Edelman's last year of his prime.
 
I was being nice. That running play w/ Gillislee seemed blatant but im not 100% sure

I dunna know though. He seemed fine to me before the 2016 season.
If you went back and looked for it, it was always there. Some teams don’t care but our defensive scheme gets destroyed by it.
 
So, you decide to "ride it out" because the best offer you received from a team that Gronk would be happy to play for is only a 2nd + a 3rd ("stupid" to accept that little), and then Gronk retires?

Yep

I don’t believe Gronk is retiring , I think he wants more money. He’s the best player ever at his position and he’s 28, if you trade him you make sure you get real value for him, I wouldn’t take less than a top fifteen pick, and I would bet on him playing.
 
For someone who has access to Miguel's salary cap page, what effect would
trading Gronk have on the Patriots salary cap? Also, does Gronk owe the
Patriots any bonus money if he retires?
 
bradys loses amendola, lewis, solder...potentially gronk.

just makes things even more difficult for our 41 year old leader.
 
why do we want to make things more difficult for tom brady??? shouldn't we want to surround him with better players. this would be so ****ing stupid.
 
why do we want to make things more difficult for tom brady??? shouldn't we want to surround him with better players. this would be so ****ing stupid.
I don't know how this stupid rumor started but I don't believe it for a second. Could it happen? Sure, but unless Gronk is a problem in the locker room (which I doubt) there's no reason to trade the most dominating TE of all time. He just wants to get paid what he deserves.

Losing Gronk really puts a ton of pressure on the WR's which you could argue they have trouble gaining separation against man to man defenses. Gronk takes a ton of pressure off these guys and visa versa.

Also, trading Gronk would mess up your username? :D
 
Maybe there's one in the cards, though.

Hey -- what happened to the TV on your head?

You can never be sure. I don’t like the idea though.

I replaced the tv one with the Denver one
 
Can we trade Bedard for a used tampon.
 
Yep

I don’t believe Gronk is retiring , I think he wants more money. He’s the best player ever at his position and he’s 28, if you trade him you make sure you get real value for him, I wouldn’t take less than a top fifteen pick, and I would bet on him playing.

If he goes, would be good for him to be traded to the Niners in return for their #9th pick in the 1st round in the 2018 NFL draft. He will get more $$, Niners gets more firepower, Patriots get a high rounder... Everyone is happy..

:rolleyes:
 
For someone who has access to Miguel's salary cap page, what effect would
trading Gronk have on the Patriots salary cap? Also, does Gronk owe the
Patriots any bonus money if he retires?

According to OTC, Gronk being traded or retiring before June 1st would save the Pats about $6.9M net off the cap (after accounting to his signing bonus), minus the cap hit of whatever player take his spot.

The Pats still have two more $2M distributions of Gronk's original extension bonus counting against the cap - one each in 2018 & 2019. If Gronk leaves the team before June 1st this year, both would count against the 2018 cap (as "dead money"). Gronk wouldn't "owe" the Pats any of this, but I think the team could sue him to get some of it back (and credit on the cap for whatever they recover). I'm not at all sure that they would sue him, though.

Rob Gronkowski Contract Details, Salary Cap Charges, Bonus Money | Over The Cap
 
Yep

I don’t believe Gronk is retiring , I think he wants more money. He’s the best player ever at his position and he’s 28, if you trade him you make sure you get real value for him, I wouldn’t take less than a top fifteen pick, and I would bet on him playing.

Here's what I know.

Immediately after the SB loss, and then coming home from that to find that the sanctity of his home had been violated, Gronk made some vague statements about pondering his future. Not a particularly unusual reaction from any human being who's just experienced such a double-whammy. When, at the time, he was asked about "retiring", he pretty much ducked the question.

That was nearly two months ago. Since then, apparently Gronk has been seen working out at the Pats facility. When asked about Gronk's intentions/state of mind, Gronk's agent has pulled a Belichick.

Gronk also has connections in Hollywood and has reportedly been given a role in a new (proposed) film.

That's all I actually know. The rest is just media-hyped speculation based on reports for "sources" - which is 99.9999% BS under pretty much any circumstances.

--------

The contract extension that Gronk signed way back in 2012, after only his first two seasons in the league, was considered extravagant for a TE - at the time. His scheduled pay rate for the later years of his contract (where we are now) was roughly equivalent to the pay rate for a top WR - at the time. It's not unreasonable to suspect that this contract provided at least some impetus to Jimmy Graham's subsequent suit against the league to be classed as a WR for Franchise Tag purposes, which would have meant significantly more money for him at the time (he lost, btw).

Pay scales have increased significantly over the intervening six years for both TEs and WRs. Gronk's "new cash earnings" for 2017 were actually only $5M (not even top pay for a TE, much less WR), until the Pats added incentive bonuses of $5.5M (which Gronk earned).

His 2018 new cash is scheduled to be $9M. This is good for a TE, but not nearly commensurate with his receiving production which, on a per-game basis, has consistently been among the top ten of all receivers, and notably better than several WRs who are getting paid as much as 50% more (and none of those WRs offer the inline blocking in the running game and pass-pro that Gronk does).

So, a solid argument can be made that he's relatively underpaid for what he contributes.

IF Gronk and his agent are making this argument to the Pats, the Pats have the ability to address the issue with more incentive bonuses for 2018 that can increase Gronk's new cash intake. Or, they can extend his contract and increase his new cash intake by converting some of his 2018 and 2019 salaries to signing bonus which (in terms of cap expense) would be amortized over 1-2 more years, thus reducing his 2018 & 2019 cap hits.

I also know what fan expectations are for what the Pats should demand/receive in exchange for Gronk in a trade scenario. In my opinion, based on previous market transactions, the Pats are highly unlikely to receive offers that include a 2018, or even 2019, first round pick - regardless how you or I (as fans) may perceive his value, and regardless of his relative statistical value.

In a ridiculous, soap-opera, media-driven-fantasy scenario in which Gronk is threatening to quit/retire unless (A) he gets significant new cash from the Pats, or (B), the Pats trade him to a team of his choice that's willing to give him that new cash, it would be the epitome of stupid (and business malfeasance) for the Pats to refuse to accept the best offer from one of those teams (whether it meets fan expectations or not) and, instead, lose Gronk for zero return.
 
I think there is a real good possibility that Gronk gets traded because he is
behaving like a dumbass. I don't agree with the compensation you are all
suggesting. The whole league knows they can screw Belichick when he is
over a barrel.
SF has already traded their #2 to the Patriots, so maybe their
#3 this year or a #2 next year.

Name 2-3 examples where anyone screwed BB on a trade. Please.

And don't try to mention JG because nobody got screwed there. It was either an early 2nd or a late 3rd round comp pick 1.5 years later. Or trading Brady.
 
Name 2-3 examples where anyone screwed BB on a trade. Please.

And don't try to mention JG because nobody got screwed there. It was either an early 2nd or a late 3rd round comp pick 1.5 years later. Or trading Brady.
I highly disagree with what Jimke is claiming and I think he’s being way too over the top, but the answer to your question would lie in one’s opinion of what getting screwed in a trade means.

Duane Starks for a 3rd rounder certainly didn’t work out too well, considering that he was only here for one season (thankfully). Trading away a 3rd and a 4th/5th for Derrick Burgess’ sorry ass didn’t go so well. We all know the Ochocinco and Haynesworth moves. Outright cutting a former first round pick and 2 time pro bowler in Meriweather was certainly questionable, considering the fact that one would assume at least a mid-late round pick in return.

Of course, these are all failed trades, so it likely doesn’t fit your criteria about someone taking advantage of Belichick. They may just have been failed trades. Point blank. No one necessarily got “screwed” as that poster is suggesting, although these are likely some of the examples that he may be thinking of. As we know, many have worked out and many haven’t. That’s just the nature of the gamble.
 
I highly disagree with what Jimke is claiming and I think he’s being way too over the top, but the answer to your question would lie in one’s opinion of what getting screwed in a trade means.

Duane Starks for a 3rd rounder certainly didn’t work out too well, considering that he was only here for one season (thankfully). Trading away a 3rd and a 4th/5th for Derrick Burgess’ sorry ass didn’t go so well. We all know the Ochocinco and Haynesworth moves. Outright cutting a former first round pick and 2 time pro bowler in Meriweather was certainly questionable, considering the fact that one would assume at least a mid-late round pick in return.

Of course, these are all failed trades, so it likely doesn’t fit your criteria about someone taking advantage of Belichick. They may just have been failed trades. Point blank. No one necessarily got “screwed” as that poster is suggesting, although these are likely some of the examples that he may be thinking of. As we know, many have worked out and many haven’t. That’s just the nature of the gamble.

I'm not sure that BB "buying" an NFL player who subsequently doesn't perform to expectations is as much widely viewed as "BB getting screwed on a trade" as it is "BB effed-up on the scouting."

OTOH, BB "selling" a Pats player for less than what fans think said player is worth is the primary definition of BB "getting screwed on a trade". Since long time Patriots players rarely have the actual market value that fans believe they should have, BB is pretty much always "getting screwed" on those deals.
 
Here's what I know.

Immediately after the SB loss, and then coming home from that to find that the sanctity of his home had been violated, Gronk made some vague statements about pondering his future. Not a particularly unusual reaction from any human being who's just experienced such a double-whammy. When, at the time, he was asked about "retiring", he pretty much ducked the question.

That was nearly two months ago. Since then, apparently Gronk has been seen working out at the Pats facility. When asked about Gronk's intentions/state of mind, Gronk's agent has pulled a Belichick.

Gronk also has connections in Hollywood and has reportedly been given a role in a new (proposed) film.

That's all I actually know. The rest is just media-hyped speculation based on reports for "sources" - which is 99.9999% BS under pretty much any circumstances.

--------

The contract extension that Gronk signed way back in 2012, after only his first two seasons in the league, was considered extravagant for a TE - at the time. His scheduled pay rate for the later years of his contract (where we are now) was roughly equivalent to the pay rate for a top WR - at the time. It's not unreasonable to suspect that this contract provided at least some impetus to Jimmy Graham's subsequent suit against the league to be classed as a WR for Franchise Tag purposes, which would have meant significantly more money for him at the time (he lost, btw).

Pay scales have increased significantly over the intervening six years for both TEs and WRs. Gronk's "new cash earnings" for 2017 were actually only $5M (not even top pay for a TE, much less WR), until the Pats added incentive bonuses of $5.5M (which Gronk earned).

His 2018 new cash is scheduled to be $9M. This is good for a TE, but not nearly commensurate with his receiving production which, on a per-game basis, has consistently been among the top ten of all receivers, and notably better than several WRs who are getting paid as much as 50% more (and none of those WRs offer the inline blocking in the running game and pass-pro that Gronk does).

So, a solid argument can be made that he's relatively underpaid for what he contributes.

IF Gronk and his agent are making this argument to the Pats, the Pats have the ability to address the issue with more incentive bonuses for 2018 that can increase Gronk's new cash intake. Or, they can extend his contract and increase his new cash intake by converting some of his 2018 and 2019 salaries to signing bonus which (in terms of cap expense) would be amortized over 1-2 more years, thus reducing his 2018 & 2019 cap hits.

I also know what fan expectations are for what the Pats should demand/receive in exchange for Gronk in a trade scenario. In my opinion, based on previous market transactions, the Pats are highly unlikely to receive offers that include a 2018, or even 2019, first round pick - regardless how you or I (as fans) may perceive his value, and regardless of his relative statistical value.

In a ridiculous, soap-opera, media-driven-fantasy scenario in which Gronk is threatening to quit/retire unless (A) he gets significant new cash from the Pats, or (B), the Pats trade him to a team of his choice that's willing to give him that new cash, it would be the epitome of stupid (and business malfeasance) for the Pats to refuse to accept the best offer from one of those teams (whether it meets fan expectations or not) and, instead, lose Gronk for zero return.


That’s your opinion, I gave you mine. Anything less than a high first is stupid and you play it out. If he wants to retire so be it. You don’t just give great players away for dogsh.t.
 
The Jimmy G trade is not at all comparable to the Gronk situation. Jimmy G had no chance of staying here, he certainly wasn't going to play while here, so the only option was to move on for the best value they could get.

Gronk's situation is closer to that of Seymour or Mankins, both 8 year vets at or near pro bowl form. To assess Gronk's value in a trade, I would look for something in between the two.

We got pick #17 for Seymour, but the pick came two years later, which drops the value to that of maybe an early 2nd. We got a 4th plus a depth TE for Mankins, which seemed like a ripoff at the time, but he declined sharply following the trade. Between Gronk's injury history and the likelihood that he retires young, I imagine other teams would attempt to offer something closer to Mankins compensation than Seymour compensation.

There is one wild card - the LA Rams. They are in win now mode like no team we've witnessed since the 2007 Patriots.
 
Saw a rumor of Gronk going to the Rams. Is this what bedard was speculating?
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.


Thursday Patriots Notebook 4/25: News and Notes
Patriots Kraft ‘Involved’ In Decision Making?  Zolak Says That’s Not the Case
MORSE: Final First Round Patriots Mock Draft
Slow Starts: Stark Contrast as Patriots Ponder Which Top QB To Draft
Wednesday Patriots Notebook 4/24: News and Notes
Tuesday Patriots Notebook 4/23: News and Notes
MORSE: Final 7 Round Patriots Mock Draft, Matthew Slater News
Bruschi’s Proudest Moment: Former LB Speaks to MusketFire’s Marshall in Recent Interview
Monday Patriots Notebook 4/22: News and Notes
Patriots News 4-21, Kraft-Belichick, A.J. Brown Trade?
Back
Top