Adam Schefter: Patriots want minimum of 1st and 4th round picks for QB Jimmy Garoppolo

[ctpatsfan77]

Goff make 20m per year? No, he doesn't, so your point is idiotic.

Jared Goff signed a 4 year, $27,937,673 contract with the Los Angeles Rams, including a $18,518,308 signing bonus, $27,487,673 guaranteed

Jimmy Garoppolo signed a 4 year, $3,483,898 contract with the New England Patriots, including a $853,744 signing bonus, $1,103,744 guaranteed, and an average annual salary of $870,975.

I'm sorry, we're you saying something about being an idiot?

A $20M signing bonus doesn't mean $20M a year. $28M/4 years = $7M/y.

 

[40yrpatsfan]

Why do you think that? Please expand on the similarities you see between Rodgers and Garropollo.

Accuracy, quick release, quick feet/dropback, mobile, smart, can make any throw. Obvious he belongs. Nobody can say for sure what he will become, but the indicators are there that he's going to be good.

 

[Ring 6]

Accuracy, quick release, quick feet/dropback, mobile, smart, can make any throw. Obvious he belongs. Nobody can say for sure what he will become, but the indicators are there that he's going to be good.

There is clearly not enough evidence to determine if his accuracy is near Rodgers or mediocre. There is no way that he compares in 'quick feet' and 'mobile'.
You have zero fact that you can use to determine 'smart' in comparison to other QBs. "Can make any throw" like Rodgers? When has he delivered the 40 yard bullet on the mark like Rodgers who may be the best ever at that.
You just listed a bunch of things that make QBs good and you hope Jimmy G has them.

So we have
Accuracy: Not enough info
Quick release: Nothing stands out either way
Quick feet: Not close to Rodgers
Mobile: Not close to Rodgers
Smart: No way to judge
Can make any throw: Has not shown any of this at a Rodgers level.

Yeah, just like him

Hey, I really like Jimmy G so far, but my God can we tap the brakes before we sound like a board of idiots. Again. You would think the 'we can get the #1 overall for Mallett and take Clowney" tribe would have left a mark.

 

[OhExaulted1]

To me, the most logical landing spot would be the Browns. Not only do they have their own at #1, #33 and #65 but they have #12 (Eagles) and #52 (Titans) this year PLUS an extra 2nd (Eagles), 4th Panthers and 6th (Steelers) next year. If they found a dance partner for #1 (unlikely) they would have even more capital and wiggle room to make a deal.

The Browns new GM, Sashi Brown, got to make a huge splash compliments of BB at the deadline. I'm sure that was a big thing for a first year, 40-year old GM. Now the lines of communication have been open. Where is Mr. Brown from? Born in Boston and a Harvard grad.

Just some food for thought.

 

[IllegalContact]

Actually, I think many would.

and that's why they all suck

 

[IllegalContact]

I am not sure what you mean by saying they would have to "back up the truck" but if you are saying they would be financially expensive, you are mistaken. The cost for securing either of those player for 4 years will be just marginally higher than the cost to franchise Garoppolo for just 1.

maybe so......but it still goes back to kizer and the other guy.......really? talk about 4-5 more years of futility staring at you

 

[IllegalContact]

It so isn't long enough to go without displaying a flaw. Carson Wentz says hello. Look how well he played in September vs the rest of the season. Teams got a book on him and his play declined significantly. He showed next to no flaws in September.

Carson Wentz has jack **** to do with Jimmy Garoppolo........stop throwing out irrelevant examples

in that case, I say keep him........they're not going to get near the impact in return and as they proved this year, you can do damned well with a less than ideal bounty of picks......

 

[patfanken]

Andy is right....to a degree. 5 quarters of great football is NOT near enough time to determing, without risk, how good JG might end up being. Just look at the Philly QB who was lights out is first 5 games before coming back to earth, like his team, the rest of the season, Kurt Cousins after 4 years in the league and 2 full seasons as a starter, has HE proven beyond doubt he deserves a big contract? Some would say definitively yes and some no.

That's the point. No one is guaranteed success year to year in the league unless you are the Patriots, and even then it's just relative success most years. Carson Palmer had a career year in 2015. This year not even close. So when people want to valuate JG it is WRONG to say he's a sure bet.

The distinction we should be focusing on is the valuation of the POTENTIAL JG offers based on all the information we have had hand. Isn't that what draft picks are all about in the first place, potential based on information at hand? And draft picks will be the currency used in any JG transaction.

So when you compare some of the other QB trades for either vets or moves up to get a QB in the draft, the idea of a 1s and 4th for one cheap year of JG is more than reasonable, ESPECIALLY in a year where there aren't any 1st round talents coming out.

There is no question that anyone trading for JG and playing that kind of price will be taking a risk. But a lot of that risk is mitigated by his pedigree, his training, the game film, and the kids proven makeup. He might fail, no question, but the chances he doesn't are a LOT better than the other alternatives to solve your current QB question....And if you DON'T solve that QB issue, you aren't going to have a job to worry about those lost draft picks. THAT's why the Pats will get a fair deal, and Scheckter will end up being right and Dilfer......well Dilfer will just end up being Dilfer.....again.

 

[IllegalContact]

Andy is right....to a degree. 5 quarters of great football is NOT near enough time to determing, without risk, how good JG might end up being. Just look at the Philly QB who was lights out is first 5 games before coming back to earth, like his team, the rest of the season, Kurt Cousins after 4 years in the league and 2 full seasons as a starter, has HE proven beyond doubt he deserves a big contract? Some would say definitively yes and some no.

That's the point. No one is guaranteed success year to year in the league unless you are the Patriots, and even then it's just relative success most years. Carson Palmer had a career year in 2015. This year not even close. So when people want to valuate JG it is WRONG to say he's a sure bet.

The distinction we should be focusing on is the valuation of the POTENTIAL JG offers based on all the information we have had hand. Isn't that what draft picks are all about in the first place, potential based on information at hand? And draft picks will be the currency used in any JG transaction.

So when you compare some of the other QB trades for either vets or moves up to get a QB in the draft, the idea of a 1s and 4th for one cheap year of JG is more than reasonable, ESPECIALLY in a year where there aren't any 1st round talents coming out.

There is no question that anyone trading for JG and playing that kind of price will be taking a risk. But a lot of that risk is mitigated by his pedigree, his training, the game film, and the kids proven makeup. He might fail, no question, but the chances he doesn't are a LOT better than the other alternatives to solve your current QB question.....and THAT's why the Pats will get a fair deal, and Scheckter will end up being right and Dilfer......well Dilfer will just end up being Dilfer.....again.

he was pretty far from lights out and Wentz has nothing to do with Garoppolo.......if you can't notice the difference, then either you weren't paying attention or didn't watch

 

[patfanken]

he was pretty far from lights out and Wentz has nothing to do with Garoppolo.......if you can't notice the difference, then either you weren't paying attention or didn't watch

You are getting lost in minuscia. Who cares? the point is that there are teams that NEED improved QB play if they are going to win. JG is the BEST potential chance for a GM/HC to get that long term fix among all the potential FA's and daft QB picks. That doesn't mean he's sure thing, but he IS the best shot you will have this off season. Maybe next year there will be better optioins. But maybe you won't get till next year. But for THIS off season JG's is the best looking girl at the prom, and thus costs the most to date.

So, IC, I really don't care about Carson Wentz, he was just a metaphor

 

[40yrpatsfan]

There is clearly not enough evidence to determine if his accuracy is near Rodgers or mediocre. There is no way that he compares in 'quick feet' and 'mobile'.
You have zero fact that you can use to determine 'smart' in comparison to other QBs. "Can make any throw" like Rodgers? When has he delivered the 40 yard bullet on the mark like Rodgers who may be the best ever at that.
You just listed a bunch of things that make QBs good and you hope Jimmy G has them.

So we have
Accuracy: Not enough info
Quick release: Nothing stands out either way
Quick feet: Not close to Rodgers
Mobile: Not close to Rodgers
Smart: No way to judge
Can make any throw: Has not shown any of this at a Rodgers level.

Yeah, just like him

Hey, I really like Jimmy G so far, but my God can we tap the brakes before we sound like a board of idiots. Again. You would think the 'we can get the #1 overall for Mallett and take Clowney" tribe would have left a mark.

"as compared to the AR of 2007, not today's AR". That's the comparison. As in - when AR was riding the bench for 3 years and was nothing more than 210 lbs of potential.

We've seen much more of JG in real games than they had seen of AR in his 3rd year, so let's judge them based on their actual regular season performances through game 2 of their 3rd seasons:
Accuracy: JG
Release: JG
Feet: JG
Mobility: JG
Smart: JG

edit: actual stats thru game 2 of season 3:
JG: 62/91 (68%), 686 yds, 5 td's/0 int's
AR: 15/31 (49%), 111 yards, 0 td's, 1 int

 

[Ring 6]

"as compared to the AR of 2007, not today's AR". That's the comparison. As in - when AR was riding the bench for 3 years and was nothing more than 210 lbs of potential.

We've seen much more of JG in real games than they had seen of AR in his 3rd year, so let's judge them based on their actual regular season performances through game 2 of their 3rd seasons:
Accuracy: JG
Release: JG
Feet: JG
Mobility: JG
Smart: JG

WTF are you talking about.
You are comparing what you don't about JAG to what you didn't know about Rodgers and thinking that has some kind of value?

And Rodgers wasn't born on draft day, so to say Garaopolo had better feet and mobility is to say you didn't know Rodgers from Vince Wilfork.

I'm going to stop here, because I feel this is going to evolve into whether Jimmy G is better than the alien from Mars that will be the 1st pick in 2094

 

[Rob0729]

Carson Wentz has jack **** to do with Jimmy Garoppolo........stop throwing out irrelevant examples

in that case, I say keep him........they're not going to get near the impact in return and as they proved this year, you can do damned well with a less than ideal bounty of picks......

Carson Wentz does have to do with Garoppolo because he is part of a pattern of first time starting QBs. Many first time starting QBs look far better than they really are because teams don't have a book on them and, once teams start to develop that book, they start to figure out the QB's weaknesses and develop game plans to stop them.

If you don't like Carson Wentz, why not Nick Foles who went from breaking the single season TD to INT ratio record (which Brady just shattered) in his second year in the League to a back up QB three years later?
Or Matt Schaub who had a similar type of short streak as a replacement start in Atlanta as Garoppolo had to become a career journeyman QB?

Or Colin Kaepernick who was being touted as revolutionizing the way the QB position would be played and leading his team to the Super Bowl his first year as a start to a back up QB three years later?

Or how about Matt Flynn who had two starts over two seasons with Green Bay and amassed 9 TDs and 2 INTs during those two starts and then went on being a career back up bouncing around from team to team after that?

Or Ryan Leaf who played so well early in his career that people were blasting Parcells for taking Bledsoe over him and then flamed out pretty quickly?

I can keep going. Sooner or later I will come up with a QB that you will have to admit is relevant to Garoppolo. The league is littered with QBs who looked great initially until teams figured them out and went on to flame out in this League. Garoppolo may or may not join that group, but it is foolish to say any of us know if he will or not.

 

[Ring 6]

Andy is right....to a degree. 5 quarters of great football is NOT near enough time to determing, without risk, how good JG might end up being. Just look at the Philly QB who was lights out is first 5 games before coming back to earth, like his team, the rest of the season, Kurt Cousins after 4 years in the league and 2 full seasons as a starter, has HE proven beyond doubt he deserves a big contract? Some would say definitively yes and some no.

That's the point. No one is guaranteed success year to year in the league unless you are the Patriots, and even then it's just relative success most years. Carson Palmer had a career year in 2015. This year not even close. So when people want to valuate JG it is WRONG to say he's a sure bet.

The distinction we should be focusing on is the valuation of the POTENTIAL JG offers based on all the information we have had hand. Isn't that what draft picks are all about in the first place, potential based on information at hand? And draft picks will be the currency used in any JG transaction.

So when you compare some of the other QB trades for either vets or moves up to get a QB in the draft, the idea of a 1s and 4th for one cheap year of JG is more than reasonable, ESPECIALLY in a year where there aren't any 1st round talents coming out.

There is no question that anyone trading for JG and playing that kind of price will be taking a risk. But a lot of that risk is mitigated by his pedigree, his training, the game film, and the kids proven makeup. He might fail, no question, but the chances he doesn't are a LOT better than the other alternatives to solve your current QB question....And if you DON'T solve that QB issue, you aren't going to have a job to worry about those lost draft picks. THAT's why the Pats will get a fair deal, and Scheckter will end up being right and Dilfer......well Dilfer will just end up being Dilfer.....again.

I think the difference is that some people are certain based on 1 1/2 games that JAG is going to be a superstar QB, so therefore can't understand why anyone would not give up whatever it takes.
The problem is that its 1 1/2 games. Teams think they are drafting sure things in the first round too. They bust. There just isn't much to go on to jump from his college carreer, skill set and workouts putting him in the second to third round to saying after a game and a half he is the cant miss guy. The skillset he has is still the skillset he has.
I mean we are really talking about the first half of the Miami game because even people here were not sold on JAG after the Cardinal game.
Can you say that Jared Goff, who was much more highly rated coming into the league that JAG would not have done well against that Miami defense with Blount running for 120, Edelman, Bennett, White, Hogan, etc as his weapons? And a camp and full preseason to work with the offense after 2 years learning the system. Would JAG have looked any better in LAs middle school offense with a pathetic OL and the worst receiver group in the league? Could he have done better than Goff today, much less 3 years ago.
Yet people on this board are anointing JAG a stud, and clearly better than Goff. Its crazy.

 

[XLIX]

maybe so......but it still goes back to kizer and the other guy.......really? talk about 4-5 more years of futility staring at you

Oh, I absolutely would not draft either of them (or any other of this year's QBs) with a high pick. I cannot for the life of me understand why anyone has Kizer in the top-10 of his position, let alone the top 2.

 

[patsbrasilpatriotas]

There is clearly not enough evidence to determine if his accuracy is near Rodgers or mediocre. There is no way that he compares in 'quick feet' and 'mobile'.
You have zero fact that you can use to determine 'smart' in comparison to other QBs. "Can make any throw" like Rodgers? When has he delivered the 40 yard bullet on the mark like Rodgers who may be the best ever at that.
You just listed a bunch of things that make QBs good and you hope Jimmy G has them.

So we have
Accuracy: Not enough info 4
Quick release: Nothing stands out either way 1
Quick feet: Not close to Rodgers 2
Mobile: Not close to Rodgers 3
Smart: No way to judge
Can make any throw: Has not shown any of this at a Rodgers level. 5

Yeah, just like him

Hey, I really like Jimmy G so far, but my God can we tap the brakes before we sound like a board of idiots. Again. You would think the 'we can get the #1 overall for Mallett and take Clowney" tribe would have left a mark.

How can you say that? (2 and 3)
Based on two games? (2, 3 and 5)
A future trading partner will pay for the player's potential. Comparing a player with 10 or more years of experience is absurd.
Especially when it is one of the four or five best of his generation, if that is the parameter to JG, I think a first round choice is very little return for that.

Using your logic (affirmative two and three), he is more accurate than Rodgers ( %68.3 x %65.1), has more avg yds per game ( 345 x 259.3), better QBR ( 88.7 x 78.2), better rating ( 113.3 x 104.2)

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2016/08/12/jimmy-garoppolo-patriots-preseason-quick-release-photos/

 

[patsbrasilpatriotas]

I think the difference is that some people are certain based on 1 1/2 games that JAG is going to be a superstar QB, so therefore can't understand why anyone would not give up whatever it takes.
The problem is that its 1 1/2 games. Teams think they are drafting sure things in the first round too. They bust. There just isn't much to go on to jump from his college carreer, skill set and workouts putting him in the second to third round to saying after a game and a half he is the cant miss guy. The skillset he has is still the skillset he has.
I mean we are really talking about the first half of the Miami game because even people here were not sold on JAG after the Cardinal game.
Can you say that Jared Goff, who was much more highly rated coming into the league that JAG would not have done well against that Miami defense with Blount running for 120, Edelman, Bennett, White, Hogan, etc as his weapons? And a camp and full preseason to work with the offense after 2 years learning the system. Would JAG have looked any better in LAs middle school offense with a pathetic OL and the worst receiver group in the league? Could he have done better than Goff today, much less 3 years ago.
Yet people on this board are anointing JAG a stud, and clearly better than Goff. Its crazy.

What's the logic behind the Sam Bradford's deal? Please explain.

Weak, Injury prone, expensive ...

 

[patsbrasilpatriotas]

We are talking about teams that use the first pick to select a 28 year old QB, a kicker...

 

[Ring 6]

What's the logic behind the Sam Bradford's deal? Please explain.

Weak, Injury prone, expensive ...

Desperation?
If we wait until a team that considers it a SB contender and loses their QB the week before the season and only has Shaun Hill and we have the only capable QB on the market, I'd bet we get a higher price.

 

[groganbootleg]

A $20M signing bonus doesn't mean $20M a year. $28M/4 years = $7M/y.

It certainly does in year one........ and the point was that teams gave up a ton of picks AND paid a boatload of money for a completely unproven QB. You can go back and look if you'd like, but I never said "$20M", he did. I then pointed out that that is exactly what he got this year. Again, the point is that teams regularly give up multiple 1st and 2nd round draft picks for rookie QBs knowing full well the track record. Jimmy is worth at least that based on what the market pays for QBs like Goff.