2018 Training Camp Thread - Days 4 & 5 (7/29-30/18)

[Ras-IR Dowling]

JFC The Chargers need to cancel TC before anyone else gets hurt.

I’d try to engage them on a possible trade for one of our backups.

 

[long distance]

RE: M.Brown discussion.

1. he is coming back from injury, didn't participate in spring so these are his first reps and of course he starts behind Guy (Shelton was brought as Branch replacement imo)
2. looking at @FlyboyPatsFan videos you can see he is part of 1st D rotation 11v11 . coming in at times with 1sts for Guy or Shelton
3. He is always there with #1 run/GL D (Guy-Shelton-M.Brown) . which should be a real strength of this D and its already showing
__

It does seem though (and some were saying this throughout last season) that he has an uphill battle to earn his next reasonable contract with NE and its not just due to his play which was pretty solid over first 3 yrs. Guy is consistent, versatile, productive DL that can line up anywhere and can play all 3 downs - most importantly signed through 2020 on a very cheap contract. It seems MB is competing w Shelton for one starting DT contract and Shelton always has the edge as block eating, bull rushing DT/NT. It also seems his size and Guy's versatility offer best combination at the moment.

Also, VV and A.Butler showed they can play and are signed through 2019 on rookie deals. Plus you can get solid DL backups on the street (like RJF last yr). So despite seeing Brown as a very solid and somewhat versatile DL . I wouldn't be surprised if he is used as trade asset in case there are no injuries at NE DL and Pats would need to add elsewhere.. (not to mention insane depth at DL in next yrs draft where Pats are loaded..)

 

[long distance]

Sean Payton in BB mode for casual NFL followers

 

[Marqui]

JMAC might be the surprise cut this year...

Yea who needs CB depth? Pats certainly couldn't have used it in the superbowl

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Yea who needs CB depth? Pats certainly couldn't have used it in the superbowl

This is also what Mike Reiss was speculating, but I guess he’s a moron too.

 

[maineman209]

I’d try to engage them on a possible trade for one of our backups.

You mean after Niklas signs with them, gets hurt, and goes on IR, right?

 

[maineman209]

Yea who needs CB depth? Pats certainly couldn't have used it in the superbowl

I really don't think more cowbell - er - more cornerbacking would have helped in the SB. It was the lack of run-D against the Philly RPO that killed the defense.

 

[long distance]

 

[long distance]

I really don't think more cowbell - er - more cornerbacking would have helped in the SB. It was the lack of run-D against the Philly RPO that killed the defense.

.. and the lack of slot D, LB coverage painfully present through most of the season..

EDIT: of course everything starts and helps with run DL (esp. for BB)

 

[maineman209]

JMAC might be the surprise cut this year...

Somewhat more likely trade than cut, IMHO. His $3M 2018 contract probably won't be a deterrent for a desperate team (hello Chargers).

IDK, though. Probably five spots, right?

Gilmore is an obvious lock. Dawson is locked in due to his draft spot at the very least.

That's two.

#3) Rowe is reportedly looking pretty good so far, but how much can you count on a guy who's missed 16 games over the past two seasons?

#4) JJ - assuming that he returns from PUP-land soon and quickly gets back to where he was pre-injury.

But these last two are question marks for me.

JMac turns 31 on August 13th. If it's really close, I don't think the Pats keep him over a 21-year-old (Crossen, JC Jackson) or a 24-year-old (Lewis). I'm doubtful that JMac would be tasked with much ST work (even DMac's ST snaps have been reduced a bit the past couple seasons), whereas Crossen, Lewis or Jackson would likely play heavy ST snaps.

OTOH, if Rowe takes his annual half-season vacay in the tub, without JMac, the Pats are down to Gilmore, JJ, and a couple of inexperienced youngsters (Dawson is also only 21 years old).

BTW - I think Cy Jones is likely done.

 

[PatriotsNumero1Fan]

I never was a fan of Jason McCourty like some here. We need another corner that can play some man coverage at least.

 

[Ras-IR Dowling]

You mean after Niklas signs with them, gets hurt, and goes on IR, right?

Of course. Figured that was a given.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Just tag him and bag him now until the Houston game

I think you mean, " Put him on ice"

 

[Deus Irae]

I never was a fan of Jason McCourty like some here. We need another corner that can play some man coverage at least.

The Patriots thought that their CB situation was strong enough that it was a better move to draft Michel than to either draft 1 DB higher up or take 2 DBs in rounds 1-2 and hope to hit on at least one. Time will tell whether or not they were right.

 

[supafly]

I was one of Jason supporters because in Tennessee and Cleveland he was a good CB. I was glad he joined the Pats. Now I am not so sure he will survive. On the other hand it is a good sign when the young are good enough to push a veteran to get a starter job.

For sure. He was fairly cheap, had a good amount of experience, had a known positive relationship to one of the leaders of the team, and can be cut with a zero dead cap hit. At worst, he provides quality competition during TC.

 

[supafly]

It was the lack of run-D against the Philly RPO that killed the defense.

When you think about it, we actually needed a historic and close to perfect offensive showing just to keep the game close. That’s how badly the defense played against the run/pass/option. We saw them struggle with it miserably at times in 2017.

 

[Deus Irae]

When you think about it, we actually needed a historic and close to perfect offensive showing just to keep the game close. That’s how badly the defense played against the run/pass/option. We saw them struggle with it miserably at times in 2017.

They needed better run defense, no question. And they needed better, and deeper, CB play, too. Basically, it would have been nice if the defense had bothered to at least show up for the game.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Somewhat more likely trade than cut, IMHO. His $3M 2018 contract probably won't be a deterrent for a desperate team (hello Chargers).

IDK, though. Probably five spots, right?

Gilmore is an obvious lock. Dawson is locked in due to his draft spot at the very least.

That's two.

#3) Rowe is reportedly looking pretty good so far, but how much can you count on a guy who's missed 16 games over the past two seasons?

#4) JJ - assuming that he returns from PUP-land soon and quickly gets back to where he was pre-injury.

But these last two are question marks for me.

JMac turns 31 on August 13th. If it's really close, I don't think the Pats keep him over a 21-year-old (Crossen, JC Jackson) or a 24-year-old (Lewis). I'm doubtful that JMac would be tasked with much ST work (even DMac's ST snaps have been reduced a bit the past couple seasons), whereas Crossen, Lewis or Jackson would likely play heavy ST snaps.

OTOH, if Rowe takes his annual half-season vacay in the tub, without JMac, the Pats are down to Gilmore, JJ, and a couple of inexperienced youngsters (Dawson is also only 21 years old).

BTW - I think Cy Jones is likely done.

Mike Reiss feels the same way. JMAC is probably 5th or 6th on the depth chart and does NOT play special teams. Unless someone gets injured I don't see him getting much playing time even if he somehow cracks the 53.

 

[PP2]

Jesus... so that's what it feels like to get hit by a train.

 

[ralmat55]

3 million is a lot to pay a backup CB who doesn’t play special teams. Plus, the Patriots have exposed some promising DBs to waivers the last couple of years and lost a couple of them. With Rowe and J. McCourty being free agents after the season, I’d keep the best of the two and keep the best two of Crossen, Jackson, AJ Moore along with J. Jones if he’s ready when the season starts or C. Jones as a PR which is where there were heading when he got hurt last preseason.

The Patriots defense did give up 161 yards on 27 carries in the Super Bowl. But, half those yards came on two runs: the Blount touchdown and the long Ajayi run. The Eagles running game was not the deciding factor in the game. The telling statistic was: 12-18. The Eagles converted on 2/3 of their 3rd or 4th down plays. And, not to beat a dead horse, but many of those conversions especially in the 2nd half were converted by attacking the matchup of a Strong Safety covering a quality WR even on obvious passing downs and the total mismatch of a 5’10” 195 lbs free safety trying to cover an athletic 6’4” 250 TE.