Game Day Thread 2018 Preseason G2: PHI @ NE

[Ras-IR Dowling]

Yup, from first to worst just like that

At least we can expect an upgrade next season. Hoyers salary jumps from 900k to 2.8 mil. No way we pay that.

 

[Ring 6]

Ive seen enough of Mccarron And Dorsett
Dez cant be any worse

McCarron was never a legit wr possibility.

Dorsett has a role.

Dez stinks, has a crappy attitude, is stupid and will become a cancer in the locker room, and probably get into trouble off the field because we won’t give him people to make sure he stays out of trouble.

He brings much more bad than good to the equation.

 

[PatriotsNumero1Fan]

McCarron was never a legit wr possibility.

Dorsett has a role.

Dez stinks, has a crappy attitude, is stupid and will become a cancer in the locker room, and probably get into trouble off the field because we won’t give him people to make sure he stays out of trouble.

He brings much more bad than good to the equation.

Dorsett sucks period. Even at this stage of his career he’s better than dorsett. We have brung in troubled players before. The wr situation looks awful after hogan and edelman. Britt can’t even get on the damn field. Decker looks finito.

 

[Clonamery]

It's a complete waste of all of their time.

What about if Chris goes to plead Dez'z case?

 

[NG Pats Fan]

All I know is Brian Hoyer Blows....

 

[Hyped]

Patterson has been at his most successful and productive (74% catch rate the last couple seasons) when catching short passes (< 3yds beyond the LoS, or behind it) and turning them into big YAC (his yardage the past couple seasons has been about 75% YAC).

A downfield target every so often, to keep defenses honest, might be good. But I wouldn't be going out of my way to try to turn him into a regular downfield receiver. Why mess with success?

The more complete the route tree he can run...the more effective he will be. But yeah...let's not force a square peg into a round hole here... If he can do it...great...if not...what he already does is good enough for me.

 

[maineman209]

The more complete the route tree he can run...the more effective he will be. But yeah...let's not force a square peg into a round hole here... If he can do it...great...if not...what he already does is good enough for me.

As long as he can produce enough with what he already does well to justify his roster spot, the rest can be worked on a bit at a time.

Same for ANY player, really. Especially rookies.

 

[Clonamery]

All I know is Brian Hoyer Blows....

I can believe that.

 

[Love The Drake]

What about if Chris goes to plead Dez'z case?

I mean ive been know to advocate.

 

[PP2]

Right call me names that makes you a big man. Lmao
Interesting that you come up with a term that describe you though.

However, you still haven’t explained how he could ALREADY be calling the defense differently but at the same time admit that preseason defense is vanilla.



But the overriding philosophy is going to be the same. Or are you saying that despite Belichicks conservative defensive philosophy Flores is going to throw him the finger and be overly aggressive?

The reason I dislike debating with you is I never learn anything from you because you are only in it to "win" through pure semantics.

I have neither the time or inclination to go back and dig up what I said in the game thread to show how you perverted my original intent.

My position still remains the same: Flores will be calling a more aggressive defense than Patricia did, and it will have a different style and feel to it. If, during the regular season, that doesn't turn out to be the case, I'll issue a mea culpa, as I said.

 

[PScottman]

making the life for Flowers, Wise and Rivers a lot easier

Last night was without Flowers...an important part of any analysis. He was the only guy last year that really got double teams...if that continues into this year with the improvements and additions much more defensive options and ability to mix/match/confuse.

 

[Ring 6]

The reason I dislike debating with you is I never learn anything from you because you are only in it to "win" through pure semantics.

Nothing could be further from the truth.
This discussion isn’t about semantics it’s about you believing that a preseason game shows a change in philosophy after we have seen similar preseason games almost yearly.

I have neither the time or inclination to go back and dig up what I said in the game thread to show how you perverted my original intent.

That’s the thing, instead of this perverse need to defend that you couldn’t have said something wrong, state what you meant.
How can you argue about what you says if you don’t even know what it was.
Perhaps you just didn’t say it clearly. Why defend a point you don’t even remember?

My position still remains the same: Flores will be calling a more aggressive defense than Patricia did, and it will have a different style and feel to it. If, during the regular season, that doesn't turn out to be the case, I'll issue a mea culpa, as I said.

Saying that you predict that is one thing.
Acting like you have evidence to back it up is something else entirely.

Making a prediction is often based on instinct and feel. It’s often wrong.
You are trying to argue your prediction is correct before it happens so you are left to grasping at straws as “proof”.

The problem is the proof that your prediction may be wrong is much stronger, given that every dc for Belichick has been conservative, that it’s crazy to think an assistants philosophy will win out over Belichicks and the remarkable amount of success that philosophy has had.

If you are saying you like how we played yesterday and you prefer that we play that way, that’s an item to debate.
But if you are saying you know we will dramatically change the defense and already have, based one preseason game, the likes of which we are almost annually, you are clowning yourself because you don’t like that someone disagrees with your prediction.

It’s fine to predict stuff, fun in fact, but you can’t be defensive when someone sees it differently or it turns into a debacle like this.

 

[Deus Irae]

Ive seen enough of Mccarron And Dorsett
Dez cant be any worse

Are you Bryant's agent?

 

[Sfpat]

I am not sure how you can adapt to a fundamentally stupid rule.

You can maybe mitigate some of it but a lot of the **** that gets called are tackles that have been taught to people since they were young. You can't just change years of practice and muscle memory. Similarly it seems to me that apart from the obvious cases where the helmet is used as a weapon in many other instances pulling the head down and bracing for impact is just natural reaction.

Like everyone has already said.. I can't wait for the first tight game to be affected by this garbage. May it be a dead drive extended by a call or a successful play called back. Or it happening during a FG suddenly giving the kicking team a first down.

Based on the penalty called when Richards tried to tackle the TE, Gronk may have an all time receiving/yardage season. A small safety can't stand him up and tackle him and a LB can't stay with him

 

[maineman209]

I have neither the time nor the crayons to ...

FIFY

 

[PP2]

Nothing could be further from the truth.
This discussion isn’t about semantics it’s about you believing that a preseason game shows a change in philosophy after we have seen similar preseason games almost yearly.


That’s the thing, instead of this perverse need to defend that you couldn’t have said something wrong, state what you meant.
How can you argue about what you says if you don’t even know what it was.
Perhaps you just didn’t say it clearly. Why defend a point you don’t even remember?


Saying that you predict that is one thing.
Acting like you have evidence to back it up is something else entirely.

Making a prediction is often based on instinct and feel. It’s often wrong.
You are trying to argue your prediction is correct before it happens so you are left to grasping at straws as “proof”.

The problem is the proof that your prediction may be wrong is much stronger, given that every dc for Belichick has been conservative, that it’s crazy to think an assistants philosophy will win out over Belichicks and the remarkable amount of success that philosophy has had.

If you are saying you like how we played yesterday and you prefer that we play that way, that’s an item to debate.
But if you are saying you know we will dramatically change the defense and already have, based one preseason game, the likes of which we are almost annually, you are clowning yourself because you don’t like that someone disagrees with your prediction.

It’s fine to predict stuff, fun in fact, but you can’t be defensive when someone sees it differently or it turns into a debacle like this.

One more time: Based on what I saw last night. I believe that Flores will be calling a more aggressive defense than Patricia did.

You are fixated on a single fact: that it is a preseason game with vanilla schemes, and so nothing useful can be gained as far as insights.

That's where you're wrong.

You have to look at all the small things, the hints and tweaks that Flores employs. He has players playing closer to the line than usual; that's philosophy. His pressure schemes are much faster with a lot more emphasis on timing; that's philosophy. It's a thousand and one little things that are taught or emphasized according to the DC's preferences.

Advanced Stats Report: Patriots Pass Rush Outshines Tom Brady's 2018 Debut | CLNS Media

The Patriots pressured the Eagles’ quarterbacks on 54% of their dropbacks, and got “quick” pressure (pressure in 2.5 secs or less), on a ridiculous 42% of those pressures.

Now, having typed all that. I know you'll completely ignore it. No idea why I continue to waste my time with you.

 

[captain stone]

Based on the penalty called when Richards tried to tackle the TE, Gronk may have an all time receiving/yardage season. A small safety can't stand him up and tackle him and a LB can't stay with him.

I fear that more opponents will therefore be willing to TJ Ward him, sadly.

 

[Ring 6]

One more time: Based on what I saw last night. I believe that Flores will be calling a more aggressive defense than Patricia did.

You are fixated on a single fact: that it is a preseason game with vanilla schemes, and so nothing useful can be gained as far as insights.

That's where you're wrong.

You have to look at all the small things, the hints and tweaks that Flores employs. He has players playing closer to the line than usual; that's philosophy. His pressure schemes are much faster with a lot more emphasis on timing; that's philosophy. It's a thousand and one little things that are taught or emphasized according to the DC's preferences.

Advanced Stats Report: Patriots Pass Rush Outshines Tom Brady's 2018 Debut | CLNS Media



Now, having typed all that. I know you'll completely ignore it. No idea why I continue to waste my time with you.

I deleted my original response and will try to take a different approach. I will ask questions so I can truly understand your point of view.

WHO is playing closer to the line of scrimmage? Are you talking about corners? LBs or safeties who ARE blitzing, or NOT blitzing?

Who do you believe determines the philosophy and level of aggressive or conservative nature of the scheme? Belichick or Flores?

How are Flores “pressure schemes” FASTER? Do you think we ran delayed blitzes before?

Do you think that Flores is allowed to change where players align and what their responsibilities are or do you think he runs Belichicks defense?

 

[Ring 6]

I fear that more opponents will therefore by more willing to TJ Ward him, sadly.

That would definitely be a penalty.
It seems the only way to legally tackle now is to stand upright and catch the runner in your chest.

Forget about approaching a ball carrier from an angle and doing as you were taught since peewee football, get your head across the runner. That is automatically a penalty now.

Tackling will become wrestling takedowns.

 

[jimnance]

The more complete the route tree he can run...

Route "tree"?
Dude,I'd be thrilled if he could just run a "branch" or even a "twig"- never mind a whole freakin' tree.
I won't hold my breath.
He's a great kr. A few gadget plays.
But he's nowhere close to being an NFL wr.