2018 NE TC .. week 1-2 notes

[long distance]

Before it kicks off again lets see what stuck out over first 5 practices. Hope you join the party here with some of your notes, thoughts, observations..


line-ups (predominantly as reported, seen on footage etc . *hard to follow live changes):

DL1: T.Flowers (K.Davis*) - Guy (M.Brown) - Shelton - Clayborn .... *(Day 2)
DL2: Rivers - M.Brown (A.Butler) - VV - Wise
DL3: Lee (Harris) - Herron - Atkins - Langi (Grissom)

LB1: Hightower - Roberts - KVN
LB2: Langi/Sam - Bentley - M.Flowers
2LB sets -- #1: High - KVN (Roberts) . #2 KVN - Bentley . #3 Sam - Roberts

DB1: D-Mac - Chung (Harmon) // Gilmore - Rowe (J-Mac) / Dawson
DB2: Richards - Travis (Pleasant, AJ Moore) // J-Mac - JC Jackson (R.Lewis, Crossen, Wiltz)


OL1: T.Brown - Thuney - Andrews - Mason - Cannon
OL2: Wynn - Karras - Ferentz - Croston - Waddle
OL3: Tobin - Theaker - Bowanko - J.King - John

WR (TB 11v11): Hogan, Edelman, Dorsett, Matthews, Patterson
TE (TB 11v11): Gronk, D.Allen, Hollister, Develin
RB (TB 11v11): Burkhead, White, Michel (Gillislee, Hill, Bolden-GL)

OL (TB 11v11):
T.Brown(Wynn)-Thuney(Karras)-Andrews(Karras)-Mason(Croston)-Cannon(Waddle, Croston)

run D1: T.Flowers(K.Davis) -Guy - Shelton - Brown - Clayborn // Hightower - Roberts
GL-D: T.Flowers-Guy-Shelton-M.Brown-Clayborn // High-Roberts-Bentley // (JC Jackson)


PR — Jules, Chung, (Hogan), Berrios, McCarron (Burkhead, Patterson)
KR — Patterson, Berrios, McCarron, (Lucien)
gunners -- Patterson and Crossen, Matthews and Pleasant, JC Jackson and AJ Moore
ST mainly -- King, Grigsby
> With Ebner on PUP, Jordan Richards and Burkhead took turns as the personal protector.
> Burkhead, Brandon King, Jordan Richards, Hollister, Harvey Langi, Nicholas Grigsby, Christian Sam, Marquis Flowers, Keion Crossen and Geneo Grissom worked on coverage drills.
________


quick-notes:
> team in good shape - BB happy w team “real good spring“ - much healthier than last yr
> on fire: Gilmore, KVN (+speed), Burkhead, Wise, J.Hollister, T.Brown
> flash: Harmon, Patterson, Dorsett, (Matthews), D.Allen, Wynn, JC Jackson
> rookies with 1sts: Wynn, Dawson, Michel, JC Jackson, Bentley (GL), (AJ Moore)
> Dorsett and Hollister entering TB inner circle
> 2 players under the radar that are getting some reps with 1st group are K.Davis (coming in for T.Flowers) and Bentley (coming in for goal line defence). Add AJ Moore at S as well.
> Joe Thuney turned in a couple of impressive plays against Guy and Shelton.
> Rivers, Wise, K.Davis, A.Butler rotating w starters
> “sophomore“ players looking bigger, stronger: J.Hollister, Langi, Croston

___

here extended footage of TC by @FlyboyPatsFan:
2018 Patriots Training Camp Videos

____
@ poll

Last year Pats won the offseason by most accounts and the long wait to TC was full of positive news around the team (incl. Gronk's health & upgraded contract) but as TC started things started going down - Ninko's unexpected retirement at a very thin position, Branch's poor physical condition (started at PUP together w Hightower), Garcia's undisclosed illness, Ealy's continued struggles, Butler's nervous start, Rivers' ACL, Solder's and Waddle's inj. issues, Slater's as well, then Jules' ACL of course, Cyrus as well, Gillislee's eternal hammy, McDermott's insufficiencies, D.Allen's and O'Shags troubles etc. etc.

This year it almost feels the other way around. After doom and gloom offseason the start of 2018 TC seems very positive with reasonably healthy and “unreasonably“ happy roster . not to mention BB throwing praise of players around like there's no tomorrow . seriously endangering #nofun title. Leaving poor old bastard's ideas of reverse psychology aside - what are your feelings comparing the two teams entering week 2 of TC? Explaining your vote in comments section will be much appreciated.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

2018 because last year we lost half our d-line depth with Long, Sheard and Nink leaving/retiring.

 

[n6249c]

Couldn't respond to the poll because "Ray killed a guy" missing.

 

[long distance]

some stats . fwiw

 

[jah]

Interesting. Maybe one of those undrafted defensive backs (or Pleasant) can push Richards off the roster. Maybe Davis actually has a chance and can take Lee's spot.

 

[Clonamery]

Interesting. Maybe one of those undrafted defensive backs (or Pleasant) can push Richards off the roster. Maybe Davis actually has a chance and can take Lee's spot.

Can't find the "pretty please" emoji so just had to agree with your post.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

some stats . fwiw

It sounds as if the Pats might go with a lot of two TE sets while Edelman is suspended...

 

[maineman209]

2018 -

Mainly the DL - better health and generally higher effective experience level - and the potentially significant improvement in run-D that presents. Plus the LBs - HT back, KVN with more experience and apparently improved coverage skills - probably less need to "force" the Big Nickel into so many situations.

Secondly, the depth of potentially effective passing targets - Allen, Hollister and Dorsett making significant y2y improvements, Patterson and Matthews (until he was hurt) seeming to "get it", Burkhead potentially being able to do more with experience now, Michel's potential to contribute running and receiving (IF he solves his ball-security issues).

Thirdly, the OL - seems like a significant increase in depth of talent there for both run-blocking and pass-pro.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

In 2017 I felt we had the CB position locked & loaded. Liked our RB FAs. (I know) Thought we had an OK #2 at TE signed. My only concern then was LB with all the departures.
Like 2018 OL. Hope I'm right. Hope DL youth will blossom. Like the receiving corps. Concerned about LB again. Concern at Malcom's corner absence.

 

[Uptown]

Patriots Rumors: Jordan Matthews Has 'Significant' Injury Amid Eric Decker Buzz

 

[long distance]

The thing i was missing the most in 2017 was DL and DE rotation that worked so well a year before. That was one key worrying factor. The fact that Harrison played more snaps in SBLII than almost all season combined speaks volumes and he couldn't be the beast he was in 3 previous games on limited snaps. DL didn't only lack talent due to long list of injuries but it was gassed as ATL was the year before.

So looking at at least 5 deep solid DE rotation this yr and the same at DT gives me good feelings despite some ? at WR, CB.

Last year Pats had Grissom as starting DE in the first part of TC and Ealy. Lee played as starting DE when they took him from Bills PS and only went back to rotational player when Harrison stepped up. Now Lee and Grissom are playing w 3rd stringers as 7th and 8th on provisional edge depth chart (not counting Hightower, KVN..). Something similar at DT where VV is fighting for some quality reps..

 

[maineman209]

Nice insight from Kyle Shanahan on fan/media Training Camp scrutiny and the need for players to "Ignore the Noise."

 

[long distance]

Great to post this, mains. One thing i wanted to include in OP (or the stats post) and forgot talks about the futility of “evaluation“ of TC practice plays.

> Lombardi: if you are a young CB and you study the routs receivers ran in OTAs you’ll cover anybody bc you know the routs that are coming . but once you get against competition that you don’t know you have a little bit of a problem. Or the 9v7 drill - you know its run . you took away one dimension of football which is run or pass . so all you can evaluate in this drill is players toughness. You are trying to teach them, you're not trying to evaluate them. Evaluation has to happen in a game. .. The reality of TC is that you have to have good practices to help you get reps in a game - but you better play well in the games to make the team.

Thats why i started with lineups bc that says more than any TC stat or twitter “evaluation“.


Here the pod . TC evaluation rant (endowment effect etc) from 3:00 -
New York Gets Its Man, Dez Blasts Dallas, and the Endowment Effect | GM Street (Ep. 274)


Its a pity no joint practices this yr though bc there's more chance for practice evaluation there
(last yr if you remember D was also outplaying O . but it was a bit different in joint practices on both sides). Then again if anybody doesn't need that its BB.

 

[SammyBlueCat]

How long is piece of string?

 

[JarOfMayo51]

I think anyone that tries to come to any sort of conclusion on a player based on some training camp practices is obviously not to be taken seriously, as they show a pretty significant lack of brain functi0n

Its funny because Jimmy said the exact same thing last year about practices, and how you'll take chances in practice that you wouldnt in a game because you're trying new things and building chemistry.. doesn't stop the media vultures or doom and gloomers from using it as some sort of concrete evidence of the team/player's demise

 

[Patsfanin Philly]

Its a pity no joint practices this yr though bc there's more chance for practice evaluation there
(last yr if you remember D was also outplaying O . but it was a bit different in joint practices on both sides). Then again if anybody doesn't need that its BB.

Don't know where I read it ( or if it is true) but the supposed reason there are no joint practices with Washington at least, is that the practices weren't really productive from the Patriots point of view last time... That's a slap at Gruden ... as other teams have welcomed the joint practices as very productive ( e.g. Saints)....
I do remember one memorable quote from a Redskins player when he saw the Patriots' players running the hill after practice saying something like " we don't do that"..And that is why the Washington players are making tee times in January and New England players are playing in February...

 

[long distance]

nice nugget on Burkhead as the new punt return option from Reiss' quick-hits:
Nine years later, Patriots finally get their man in Eric Decker


“I was walking by the other day and said, ‘Coach, can I field a punt real quick, just to do it?’” And then he’s like, ‘That looked good. Get back in there.’” Burkhead told me.

Since that time, four practices into training camp, Burkhead has joined safety Patrick Chung and receivers Edelman, Chris Hogan, Riley McCarron and Braxton Berrios in punt-return drills. The six-year NFL veteran hasn’t returned a punt in a game since his senior year at Nebraska. Until this past week, he hadn’t practiced it since entering the NFL.

“I love it because of the creativity that comes with it as a returner,” he said. “It’s such an exciting play. You can turn the game around in an instant.”

 

[maineman209]

nice nugget on Burkhead as the new punt return option from Reiss' quick-hits:
Nine years later, Patriots finally get their man in Eric Decker


“I was walking by the other day and said, ‘Coach, can I field a punt real quick, just to do it?’” And then he’s like, ‘That looked good. Get back in there.’” Burkhead told me.

Since that time, four practices into training camp, Burkhead has joined safety Patrick Chung and receivers Edelman, Chris Hogan, Riley McCarron and Braxton Berrios in punt-return drills. The six-year NFL veteran hasn’t returned a punt in a game since his senior year at Nebraska. Until this past week, he hadn’t practiced it since entering the NFL.

“I love it because of the creativity that comes with it as a returner,” he said. “It’s such an exciting play. You can turn the game around in an instant.”

Burkhead only had 11 total PRs in four years at Nebraska (and not for a great average), but then, Edelman had ZERO punt returns in college, IIRC.

Still, the Pats don't need Burkhead to get to Edelman's level to benefit. Amendola only averaged about 7-8 yds per PR with the Pats, except for 2015 (12ypr). Mainly, DA was safe to have back there.

 

[n6249c]

....
I do remember one memorable quote from a Redskins player when he saw the Patriots' players running the hill after practice saying something like " we don't do that"..And that is why the Washington players are making tee times in January and New England players are playing in February...

Living in DC I got to read the local paper (Post) reporting on the joint practices. I remember the reporter being very impressed and commenting on how at the end of the first joint practice the Pats headed off to run the hills as the 'Skins dragged themselves into the locker room. Got the distinct impression there was a message for Washington fans who've cared to read between the lines.

 

[Sciz]

Burkhead only had 11 total PRs in four years at Nebraska (and not for a great average), but then, Edelman had ZERO punt returns in college, IIRC.

Edelman had 6 returns for 25 yards over his last three college games. No idea how the starting QB was allowed to do that in a game