Curran: "In my estimation... [Gonzo would like to] be treated as if he's at the table in 2027." [previous title: "say goodbye to gonzo"]

[Mack Herron]

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Spending cap space and actual cash spending are two different facts, Kraft has been at or near the bottom just about every year in cash spending.

So New England could spend if they wanted and go over the cap.

 

[Real fan 02]

So New England could spend if they wanted and go over the cap.

Absolutely agree. I looked at ownership in the fashion of a spoiled child. Brady spoiled them for years taking less for the overall team success and we had unmatched success of course. However ownership became spoiled with that because it maximized thier profits. It wasn't until the Herald reports last in cash spending and the NFLPA surveys that then it seemed like spending became a focus. Just my 2 cents!

 

[PatsFanInVa]

somebody tell me how you can spend cash in excess of the cap on players, consistently, with no repercussions.

Don’t just say “cash and cap are different.” Duh, you can spend now on future obligations vis bonuses and “look great” if your goal is to look spendy.

NE last year went the second furthest of any team and had the most remaining cap room. That’s a good thing. I’m old enough to remember everybody complaining about the free agent spending spree that got us Hunter Henry and, unfortunately, jonnu Smith. But I digress.

I am interested in a database tracking the mysterious cash metric that’s “different from the cap” over a decade long period. Or do you mean were last in spending over the cap?

It looks to me like we’re mad at good cap management, and your local sports media is all reporting each others reporting. And of course, “wahhhh the Pats don’t spend enough” is a fan favorite.

Just give me the “actual cash” source - where’s the database and who is the source? Tracking the cap itself is a sort of cottage industry by now, but what is this “actual cash spent,” where is it tracked, and why do its keepers maintain that “cap isn’t cash,” I.e. that, over 10 years, if you spend to the cap exactly, you’re underspending on personnel. Are we talking about payments outside of contracts? Because the cap applies to contracts, and such payments are illegal under the cap.

Again, there are plenty of tactics that can show up as low spend in one year bc money is freed up. But it seems that over 10 years the temporary distortions would be absorbed. By what magic are the Pats spending according to the cap but never having to actually pay the $? Or are you talking about spending over the cap? Or is this just everybody saying “Reiss reports that The Athletic reports” etc., with no public database behind it?

 

[Triumph]

What does Belichick have to do with anything?

A 6 time SB winning head coach passed over for the HOF.

Kraft passed over for the HOF.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

The only way to be assured your contract isn't 'obsolete' is to get some ridiculous contract that nobody would want to come close to matching.

Which obviously would be a stupid thing for the Patriots to do.

Or he'll just have to 'accept' that whatever deal he signs will, at some point during its life, be obsolete.

That is just how cap economics work.

And the elephant in THAT room is that YOU might become obsolete.

Again, we don’t know how crazy his side is being, but signs are that he embraces the outlaw look.

What the heck, I’m a patient man.

 

[upstater1]

Yup, but if you mention that Kraft is cheap then some posters get uptight and nervous and want to defend Kraft. Kraft purposely minimizes yearly cash spent, probably to reduce the risk of money not well spent in FA.

Not spending money in FA (being cheap) will not improve the draft. Kraft is cheap and BB sucked at drafting from 20182019 onwards. That was a deadly combination..

2014-2019 for BB (only good draft in that span was 2016). But I'd argue he had one bad draft 2020 thru 2023. Some of last year's SB team's talent came through the 20-23 drafts:

Onwenu, Anfernee, Barmore, Rhamondre, Marcus Jones, Gonzalez, Kayshon Boutte, Demario. Even Jake Andrews is still in the league.

2022 was a really bad draft (Cole Strange, Tyquan). But the others were OK and par for the course.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

2014-2019 for BB (only good draft in that span was 2016). But I'd argue he had one bad draft 2020 thru 2023. Some of last year's SB team's talent came through the 20-23 drafts:

Onwenu, Anfernee, Barmore, Rhamondre, Marcus Jones, Gonzalez, Kayshon Boutte, Demario. Even Jake Andrews is still in the league.

2022 was a really bad draft (Cole Strange, Tyquan). But the others were OK and par for the course.

Guys like A Jennings and J Andrews are lower 53 players. K White and C Strange are still on 53s as well, but they are bottom half of the 53 also.

You listed 7 guys. It can be argued that Onwenu, Gonzo, Barmore, Stevenson, and Jones are starters. That is 5 guys. 5 guys in 4 drafts is not a good record. One All Pro in 4 drafts.

It is not enough to list guys still in the NFL. You have to look at the quality of those guys. J Andrews and C Strange can start in the league, but both are low level starters. Where are the R Seymours, T Bruschis, Ty Laws, etc.? Not abysmal drafting, but weak drafting IMO.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Well said. Also, BB isn’t here to blame anymore, soooo who is to blame Robert?

The only way to know who is " to blame" is to know what is being asked and offered. So far all we have in that regard is rumors.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Since BB left there is ZERO evidence Kraft is cheap.

Once Belichick left, Kraft immediately funded a top-10 cash-spending offseason, expanded the payroll to accommodate a significantly larger coaching and scouting staff, and cut the ribbon on a massive, state-of-the-art training facility.

Under BB Pats were in the Super Bowl every other year. They went to 9 SB's and people use the word cheap because of cash spending. Maybe its the typical BB playing chess and not checkers. Maybe the approach to not hand out big money where an injury (Hello Micah Parsons) is right around the corner. In a sport where the average career is less than 4 years it seems the results were that BB was smarter and spent money more wisely than other teams. Only here would people criticize spending over 2 decades for a team that was a dynasty twice! The few times BB opened up the FA check book were some of the worst decisions.

Gonzalez wants to set a bunch of precedents, a guy that missed 1/3 of his games since drafted. He's not a franchise QB which you automatically do that for. With franchise tags he's also under your contractual control for 4 more years, yeah, I get he can hold out or fake an injury. You give into Gonzalez your next free agent period will cost you more. A Milt Williams will now want more guarantees as you can't say you don't do it. The Pats have to decide if they want to break with their standard practice on contracts for Gonzalez. That's just managing your team to maximize the future.

How do you know that Gonzalez wants to set precedents?

 

[borg]

I don't care who's to blame.
The fact is, low cash spending is a real thing.

Among the lowest cash spenders while charging the most for game tickets of any NFL team.
Quite a feat when you can pull it off.

I'm just grateful some of the excess profits went to erecting an inland lighthouse with a tiny bell......and acting lessons for his "niece".

 

[silentone]

Billionaire's grow their assets on average 13% a year while most Americans grow them at the S&P average, much lower. This may have a lot more to do with LEGAL insider trading, like IPOs or angel funds.

Interesting, I wasn't that Billionaires average 13% annually on their investments. Where are you geting the 13% figure from?

 

[slash83]

 

[Mankok]

Spending lots of cash over the cap is not indicative of success. For 2026 Cleveland followed by the NYG and Carolina are the biggest cash spenders - all losers. The Browns with void years and restructures continually lay out the big Jimmy Haslam bucks by delaying the cap charges resulting in dead future cap. They get stuck keeping players they don't want like Deshaun Watson or getting hit with big dead cap numbers when players like Teller, Bitonio, Njoku, or Garrett leave the team. They need to restructure players like Denzel Ward, a corner pushing 30, to avoid an untenable cap hit. I guess the idea is with the cap constantly going up it is beneficial to push the charges out to the future when those dollars are worth less, but in actuality it just heavily burdens the future team.

 

[upstater1]

Interesting, I wasn't that Billionaires average 13% annually on their investments. Where are you geting the 13% figure from?

I've read several articles on this over the years, so it's really in my head. But a quick search yields this: How Billionaires Have Beaten the Market Over the Last Decade (and What You Can Learn From Them)

 

[upstater1]

Spending lots of cash over the cap is not indicative of success. For 2026 Cleveland followed by the NYG and Carolina are the biggest cash spenders - all losers. The Browns with void years and restructures continually lay out the big Jimmy Haslam bucks by delaying the cap charges resulting in dead future cap. They get stuck keeping players they don't want like Deshaun Watson or getting hit with big dead cap numbers when players like Teller, Bitonio, Njoku, or Garrett leave the team. They need to restructure players like Denzel Ward, a corner pushing 30, to avoid an untenable cap hit. I guess the idea is with the cap constantly going up it is beneficial to push the charges out to the future when those dollars are worth less, but in actuality it just heavily burdens the future team.

What about Seattle and Philadelphia and Los Angeles?

 

[upstater1]

Guys like A Jennings and J Andrews are lower 53 players. K White and C Strange are still on 53s as well, but they are bottom half of the 53 also.

You listed 7 guys. It can be argued that Onwenu, Gonzo, Barmore, Stevenson, and Jones are starters. That is 5 guys. 5 guys in 4 drafts is not a good record. One All Pro in 4 drafts.

It is not enough to list guys still in the NFL. You have to look at the quality of those guys. J Andrews and C Strange can start in the league, but both are low level starters. Where are the R Seymours, T Bruschis, Ty Laws, etc.? Nor abysmal drafting, but weak drafting IMO.

Well, 9 guys. Not 7.

But those are starters. Andrews starts. That's what you're looking for (I didn't include Strange because he's not solid as a starter). If you look around the league, this is what teams expect in each draft.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Spending lots of cash over the cap is not indicative of success. For 2026 Cleveland followed by the NYG and Carolina are the biggest cash spenders - all losers. The Browns with void years and restructures continually lay out the big Jimmy Haslam bucks by delaying the cap charges resulting in dead future cap. They get stuck keeping players they don't want like Deshaun Watson or getting hit with big dead cap numbers when players like Teller, Bitonio, Njoku, or Garrett leave the team. They need to restructure players like Denzel Ward, a corner pushing 30, to avoid an untenable cap hit. I guess the idea is with the cap constantly going up it is beneficial to push the charges out to the future when those dollars are worth less, but in actuality it just heavily burdens the future team.

OMG, this whole “metric” is valorizing dead cap spend?!?!?!

That’s what this means, that the pats are mean about paying you not to play?!?!?!

Edit -
I've heard motivational speaker types saying that by failing to plan, you're planning to fail.
Shooting for more dead cap is just planning to fail by planning to fail.

Never have these three little words been more apt:
Do. Your. Job.

 

[upstater1]

How do you know that Gonzalez wants to set precedents?

Ironically, Belichick gave both Revis and Gilmore more $ as a % of the cap than what Witherspoon got from Seattle. Gilmore was at 11.4% in his last yr with Patriots and Revis was at 10% and went to 12% when he left for the Jets.

 

[KCSVEN]

How do you know that Gonzalez wants to set precedents?

Multiple articles have said the same thing. They'd be Patriots precedents not NFL precedents, other than the overall value that will set a record for CB's.
It's the 1-year early guarantee and the per game roster bonuses. Pretty sure those are the issues. Patriots want some relief if he gets injured, more than Seahawks wanted from Witherspoon. It's all about how early Gonzalez is guaranteed a certain amount of money. It's not about how much he gets paid if he plays out the contract. atrios have never done the early guarantee. Even Milt Williams is same year.