Patriots Player Departure Patriots trade Dugger too lol

[Clonamery]

if they think he sucks, when Hawkins was injured, the week before the trade deadline?? did "they" play Dugger 100% of the teams defensive snaps and not Pettus?

I was fine with trading anyone. but have a plan B in place. it appeared like they didn't have a plan B, so they went to plan C which appears to be Pettus.

Duggers was being shopped.

 

[mosi's man]

You are correct that Duggar provided additional back up at safety. However, I think there might be one other factor. If they kept him it would have occupied a roster spot in lieu of another player. They may have decided that the risk of losing a young promising player who would have otherwise been on the practice squad and subject to signing with another team was a factor and they decided that that additional benefit from having Duggar as another layer of protection was offset by the potential loss at another position of a promising younger player.

 

[The Brandon Five]

No, I misspoke on the return.

No harm, no foul

Peace!

 

[Wozzy]

but thats not the point
his salary this year was irrelevant. so was the return in a trade. I agree, trading Dugger was never going to return much
the point is that after trading Dugger, they are really thin at S with Woodson, Hawkins and Pettus. if Woodson or Hawkins injure, is Pettus ready? Hawkins was out for a period, and Dugger played the most snaps he has played this season, not Pettus.
unless the staff is 100% sold on Pettus, why trade Dugger in season with limited replacement level players available?
Hawkins, Woodson, Pettus, Schooler. I don't really think anyone wants to see Schooler playing back there
thats a really thin S group

Which would be relevant if I said this was entirely a financial decision, I didn’t. The Patriots have multiple LB’ers of a similar size to Dugger. He’s not a safety in Vrabel’s system, even if in his youth he had the range to play for Vrabel.

He’s older now, coming off injury, really expensive, can still play a traditional strong safety role as we’ve seen in Pittsburgh.

So if Dugger isn’t a building block for the program that you’re building now, send him somewhere he is happy and can thrive. If he continues to play well he’ll get one more fat contract… a contract the Pats won’t have to pay him. They can replace him with a cheap talented rookie.

Jaylin Hawkins is a tweener, Woodson is a tweener with better speed, Pettus is a Hawkins clone. They’ve got two more young clones on the PS now in Grant and Saunders. Hardly thin, just inexperienced.

Ideally next offseason I’d like them to add more speed and explosion to the safety position. But they can be competitive now if they can stop with the brain farts in zone coverages. I don’t think that’s a deficiency of athleticism as much as an execution issue.

 

[Wozzy]

Duggers was being shopped.

Agreed, and they l had to prove he was healthy to move him.

 

[rkarp1]

Duggers was being shopped.

so they did not play the better player (Pettus) in order to shop Dugger, who played 100% of the defensive snaps.
it could have cost them the game, simply to shop a player? what were they shopping him for? swapping 7th round draft picks?
you think they are not playing their best players to swap 7th rd draft picks?

 

[rkarp1]

Which would be relevant if I said this was entirely a financial decision, I didn’t. The Patriots have multiple LB’ers of a similar size to Dugger. He’s not a safety in Vrabel’s system, even if in his youth he had the range to play for Vrabel.

He’s older now, coming off injury, really expensive, can still play a traditional strong safety role as we’ve seen in Pittsburgh.

So if Dugger isn’t a building block for the program that you’re building now, send him somewhere he is happy and can thrive. If he continues to play well he’ll get one more fat contract… a contract the Pats won’t have to pay him. They can replace him with a cheap talented rookie.

Jaylin Hawkins is a tweener, Woodson is a tweener with better speed, Pettus is a Hawkins clone. They’ve got two more young clones on the PS now in Grant and Saunders. Hardly thin, just inexperienced.

Ideally next offseason I’d like them to add more speed and explosion to the safety position. But they can be competitive now if they can stop with the brain farts in zone coverages. I don’t think that’s a deficiency of athleticism as much as an execution issue.

so now Dugger was a LB? even though when Hawkins injured, Dugger played 100% of his snaps?

the reasons you are giving ...older, coming off injury, money...have all been proven wrong. he played 100% of the snaps when Hawkins was out. Pettus did not. Mapu did not.

 

[Wozzy]

so now Dugger was a LB? even though when Hawkins injured, Dugger played 100% of his snaps?

the reasons you are giving ...older, coming off injury, money...have all been proven wrong. he played 100% of the snaps when Hawkins was out. Pettus did not. Mapu did not.

And the Patriots are still playing duel oversized free safeties in their backfield… ignore the scheme. It’s too nuanced for you to discuss.

 

[rkarp1]

And the Patriots are still playing duel oversized free safeties in their backfield… ignore the scheme. It’s too nuanced for you to discuss.

change the discussion
it's what you do

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Ideally next offseason I’d like them to add more speed and explosion to the safety position. But they can be competitive now if they can stop with the brain farts in zone coverages. I don’t think that’s a deficiency of athleticism as much as an execution issue.

We have a deficiency in coverage skills at the safety position. That is not an execution issue. Sure, they can play better, every offense and defense can play better, that is obvious. But better play can not replace a lack of athleticism, these are two different things.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

And the Patriots are still playing duel oversized free safeties in their backfield… ignore the scheme. It’s too nuanced for you to discuss.

The two free safeties are dueling?

 

[Clonamery]

We have a deficiency in coverage skills at the safety position. That is not an execution issue. Sure, they can play better, every offense and defense can play better, that is obvious. But better play can not replace a lack of athleticism, these are two different things.

Duggar was worse than what we have currently.

 

[rkarp1]

The two free safeties are dueling?

Wozzy is going to try and convince us that Woodson at 6'0" and 200 lbs and 6'1" 208 lbs are both oversized safeties.

 

[rkarp1]

We have a deficiency in coverage skills at the safety position. That is not an execution issue. Sure, they can play better, every offense and defense can play better, that is obvious. But better play can not replace a lack of athleticism, these are two different things.

the team wants to play more man to man in coverage, but Hawkins and Woodson are not able to as often as the staff would like.
Gonzo in a zone defense is wasted. he needs to be playing more man defense than the team currently employs.

 

[n1997y]

The two free safeties are dueling?

So we have dueling dual free safeties?

Or is it dual dueling free safeties?

For even more duality could it be both?

 

[TheRainMaker]

I love it when media and fans will take one play from a player and then say "we'll that trade was a mistake" not taking into account how horrible of player he was and a terrible contract he had. the only reason this thread is still alive is because Dugger had a pick 6 which was thrown right to him.

The Pats are weak at both S positions and LB which should be addressed in the offseason.

 

[rkarp1]

I love it when media and fans will take one play from a player and then say "we'll that trade was a mistake" not taking into account how horrible of player he was and a terrible contract he had. the only reason this thread is still alive is because Dugger had a pick 6 which was thrown right to him.

The Pats are weak at both S positions and LB which should be addressed in the offseason.

when healthy, Dugger played well. he earned that deal imo.
I can't blame a player for getting hurt
I also can't blame a player for making as much money as he can
fwiw, Dugger voided his final 2 years of his deal. he is a free agent after this season.
he is playing safety for Pittsburgh for free, because the Pats are paying his contract this year

 

[TheRainMaker]

when healthy, Dugger played well. he earned that deal imo.

Dugger is the classic case of being a "system player". Once McCourty retired and Phillips no longer could play starter snaps at SS, Dugger got exposed as a true S. BB disguised his coverage weakness by giving him short area of the field and basically played the same role as Chung. Dugger was a turnstile playing deep S in 2023 and that was the sign of management to let him walk in FA. The transition tag was some Sonny Weaver **** in the movie "Draft Day".

he is playing safety for Pittsburgh for free, because the Pats are paying his contract this year

And he will get a prove it deal in FA next season. He will see he'll be a journeyman.

 

[Wozzy]

change the discussion
it's what you do

I said “scheme fit” in my very first post on this thread. But keep tilting at windmills…

 

[Wozzy]

We have a deficiency in coverage skills at the safety position. That is not an execution issue. Sure, they can play better, every offense and defense can play better, that is obvious. But better play can not replace a lack of athleticism, these are two different things.

A defender can be a very good zone coverage guy without possessing great speed. Broken zone coverages is a brain fart, an execution issue.