Defense is the biggest disappointment in 2024...

[Patriot Missile]

He's going to get at least one more year IMO.
Hope he's a fast learner.

If Daboll becomes available I’d dump Mayo for the good of the franchise in a heartbeat. Nothing personal. But I think Daboll could work wonders with Maye.

 

[Vindicate]

If you're implying him as DC, he has to be either fired or have an expiring contract. This was why Mayo declined taking title of the DC position last season as you can only leave your team with a promotion. Lateral moves aren't allowed.

Nah, it was more of a joke where Flores comes to be HC and Mayo is knocked down to DC and learns a bit more lol.

But, I didn't know about the lateral moves thing. Interesting.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Arguably the worst playoff defensive performance in league history

Even if the Patriots had had Prime Brady, Gronk, Moss, Welker, and Edelman they would have had trouble in the game.

Maybe, maybe not. When you have an offense that can score, it will change the game plan on the other side of the ball making them also one dimensional. The Pats did this pretty much for 20 years making teams do stuff on offense they didn't want to do. I'm not blaming the offense for the inability of the defense, but the Pats offense for years made it easier for a less talented defense.

The Pats had an awesome ground game in 2021. Had Brady been there with decent receivers, they would've dominated Buffalo. Also, the playoff game wouldn't have been in Buffalo.

 

[Foxypats]

They still weren't as good as they were made out to be. Couldn't compete with good teams. Now of course they have trouble against bad teams too.

47-17 was a total coaching failure.

One question for you ? How many times are you going to bring up this one game ? You are like a broken record. During the past 20 odd years, the defense has had stinkers before and they lost.
Overall , the defense was much better last year, the numbers do not lie. But you will pick up one game and try to prove that BB was a lousy coach because of it. You do realize that you come across as a petulant child who keeps screaming till someone pays attention. Well we are paying attention, it's only for the wrong reason. It makes me realize that you don't know much about football and you know even less about Bill and the Patriots.
Nobody can accuse Bill of not knowing how to run a defense even if you hate him for a sleuth of other reasons !!

 

[sb1]

One question for you ? How many times are you going to bring up this one game ? You are like a broken record. During the past 20 odd years, the defense has had stinkers before and they lost.

Because it is a perfect illustration of what this defense has been since Super Bowl 53. Ok vs bad offenses, lousy against good offenses. It was never a great or even good defense at any time since that Super Bowl.

Also think it’s hilarious that a few morons here blame Mac Jones for that debacle.

Overall , the defense was much better last year, the numbers do not lie.

The defense wasn’t that good last season, they really didn’t excel at anything, got handled easily by the Cowboys, Saints, Dolphins twice, chiefs and Jets in the finale and the difference now is they can’t beat bad teams.

But you will pick up one game and try to prove that BB was a lousy coach because of it.

No he was just lousy as a coach the last couple of seasons. Way below .500 post Brady tho. That’s part of his story.

You do realize that you come across as a petulant child who keeps screaming till someone pays attention. Well we are paying attention, it's only for the wrong reason. It makes me realize that you don't know much about football and you know even less about Bill and the Patriots.
Nobody can accuse Bill of not knowing how to run a defense even if you hate him for a sleuth of other reasons !!

Exceot I don’t hate Bill so that kinda torpedoes this narrative doesn’t it. Try again.

 

[Brick27]

If Daboll becomes available I’d dump Mayo for the good of the franchise in a heartbeat. Nothing personal. But I think Daboll could work wonders with Maye.

He clearly did a great job with his young talent Daniel Jones, who is currently thriving

 

[Foxypats]

Because it is a perfect illustration of what this defense has been since Super Bowl 53. Ok vs bad offenses, lousy against good offenses. It was never a great or even good defense at any time since that Super Bowl.

Also think it’s hilarious that a few morons here blame Mac Jones for that debacle.

The defense wasn’t that good last season, they really didn’t excel at anything, got handled easily by the Cowboys, Saints, Dolphins twice, chiefs and Jets in the finale and the difference now is they can’t beat bad teams.

No he was just lousy as a coach the last couple of seasons. Way below .500 post Brady tho. That’s part of his story.

Exceot I don’t hate Bill so that kinda torpedoes this narrative doesn’t it. Try again.

Your response is exactly what I would expect. No substance at all.
You claim that the defense has been bad since SB 53 which was in 2018...oh ok. Then please explain how in 2019 they were ranked #1 overall and they had 25 INT's that year. I am not exactly sure where that ranks but I am sure it is pretty high. In 2020, Cam's year, the defense was ranked #7 overall. In 2021 they gave up the second fewest points. In 2022 they were ranked 11th overall and last year in 2023 they were ranked 15 overall so still middle of the pack ! This year so far they are 20th overall. This means that Mayo has made the defense worse than any previous years.
Last year, in games that we got blown out, Mac threw 2 pick 6's and two fumbles lost in a 38-3 loss to Dallas. You blame the defenses, but how are they supposed to even stay competitive if the QB does that ? You keep pointing to a 47-17 loss, in that game Mac threw 2 picks and lost a fumble and nearly every time the defense was then starting on a very short field so there were no punts . So yes, I do blame Mac for that game as once a QB starts giving the game away the rest of the team do not put up much of a fight.
Now, I want to see you answer all these facts that I have pointed out and tell me once again how Bill's defenses were terrible since the end of 2018!!!

 

[sb1]

Your response is exactly what I would expect. No substance at all.
You claim that the defense has been bad since SB 53 which was in 2018...oh ok. Then please explain how in 2019 they were ranked #1 overall and they had 25 INT's that year.

“Bad since SB53”… strawman much? Read my post again.

That 2019 D’s ranking was a product of a very easy first half schedule and nothing more. When they faced good teams it all fell apart. How did that “#1” defense look against the Ravens? Texans? Ryan Fitzpatrick’s Dolphins late in the season ? That’s the game where Devante Parker of all people took Gilmore to school. How about Derrick Henry in the playoff game? That’s what I thought.

I am not exactly sure where that ranks but I am sure it is pretty high. In 2020, Cam's year, the defense was ranked #7 overall.

And 15th in yards. Like I said before points allowed is a product of schedule. Look at how they do against good teams. They got smoked. Also couldn’t stop the run that year.

In 2021 they gave up the second fewest points.

Once again warriors against bad offenses weaklings against good. You don’t want me to mention that historic playoff ass kicking so I won’t. How they do against the Colts and J Taylor? Titans when they gave up almost 300 yards rushing? Cowboys when they gave up 20 yards on third down to put Dallas in a game tying FG range with little time left? Dolphins in the regular season finale giving up almost 200 rushing? Josh Allen and the Bills in the second regular season game at Gillette?

Only the most uninformed of uninformed fans only look at points and ignore everything else to see how good a defense is. It’s a lot more than that. They haven’t been a truly elite defense that can stop a top offense since SB53 like I said.

This year so far they are 20th overall.

This means that Mayo has made the defense worse than any previous years.

Yes they are worse. No question. Now they can’t beat bad teams either. But let’s not pretend Bill was this defensive wizard in recent years that always made his defense awesome every year. No they weren’t.

Last year, in games that we got blown out, Mac threw 2 pick 6's and two fumbles lost in a 38-3 loss to Dallas. You blame the defenses, but how are they supposed to even stay competitive if the QB does that ?

Ok so Jones throws 2 ints and Dallas has the ball in NE territory anyway, who says they won’t score? And even if they don’t - 24-3 is a close game?

I love the logic that we can’t give Brady credit for carrying a team but we can blame the QB for everything that ails the team. Too funny

You keep pointing to a 47-17 loss, in that game Mac threw 2 picks and lost a fumble and nearly every time the defense was then starting on a very short field so there were no punts .

Wrong. Their drives were 70, 80, 81, 89, 58, 77 and 39 yards, the last one set up by a long punt return by Micah Hyde.

Literally a defensive embarrassment for the ages. No team had ever allowed a team to score a TD on every single drive they had in the playoffs. Shocking really that a BB team would be that unprepared. It was Pats weather too… the type of freezing cold game we’d all salivate over in the good old days.

So yes, I do blame Mac for that game as once a QB starts giving the game away the rest of the team do not put up much of a fight.

That’s nonsense. I’d expect flailing around like that from Wozzy but you’re smarter than that.

And if that was true (it’s not but for arguments sake), say the defense just gives up once they see the QB struggle… that’s the kind of total coaching failure that would get coaches fired. You really want to make that argument?

Now, I want to see you answer all these facts that I have pointed out and tell me once again how Bill's defenses were terrible since the end of 2018!!!

I’m afraid those facts aren’t what you think they are.

Truly great defenses can get clutch stops and stop good offenses. This Pats defense for whatever reason hasn’t since that SB. Hopefully they will get back to that point someday soon.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Your response is exactly what I would expect. No substance at all.

You claim that the defense has been bad since SB 53 which was in 2018...oh ok. Then please explain how in 2019 they were ranked #1 overall and they had 25 INT's that year. I am not exactly sure where that ranks but I am sure it is pretty high. In 2020, Cam's year, the defense was ranked #7 overall. In 2021 they gave up the second fewest points. In 2022 they were ranked 11th overall and last year in 2023 they were ranked 15 overall so still middle of the pack ! This year so far they are 20th overall

They were certainly good enough in 2019. Opposing offenses caught on to their pass rush gimmicks, but they still had the secondary to match up with anybody.

2020 is when the defense started to really take a dip. 10 of the 16 games they played, they gave up at least 20 points per game and at least 30 points in 3 of those 10 games.

2021 is when the jokes started asking how the weather was whenever they played a good team because that’s the only way they’d be able to hang with a good offense. We were all laughing after the Bills wind game only for the Bills to put up 33 (and could’ve been more) in the next game and 47 the game after that.

2022 and 2023 defenses also gave up 20 points in at least 10 of the 17 games they played.

Just looking at where they “rank” doesn’t tell the full story as they played a lot ****ty offenses to inflate the ranking. In the games they’ve played good offenses is where they looked completely overmatched, but the blame was always put on Mac Jones. Where’s the excuse this season? All I’ve seen is Mayo and Covington being blamed.

 

[Real fan 02]

They were certainly good enough in 2019. Opposing offenses caught on to their pass rush gimmicks, but they still had the secondary to match up with anybody.

2020 is when the defense started to really take a dip. 10 of the 16 games they played, they gave up at least 20 points per game and at least 30 points in 3 of those 10 games.

2021 is when the jokes started asking how the weather was whenever they played a good team because that’s the only way they’d be able to hang with a good offense. We were all laughing after the Bills wind game only for the Bills to put up 33 (and could’ve been more) in the next game and 47 the game after that.

2022 and 2023 defenses also gave up 20 points in at least 10 of the 17 games they played.

Just looking at where they “rank” doesn’t tell the full story as they played a lot ****ty offenses to inflate the ranking. In the games they’ve played good offenses is where they looked completely overmatched, but the blame was always put on Mac Jones. Where’s the excuse this season? All I’ve seen is Mayo and Covington being blamed.

I remember towards the end of the 2011 season where we were giving up 400 yards passing like no tomorrow and Bill telling Nance that the PPG is what mattered to him. Anyone who uses the best metric before PFF an all those other crazy stats came to be.. the old eye test.. simply using the eye test will show they aren't a good defense.. they don't play together and for one another. They can't stop anything an offense does.. there is no resistance. That’s coaching, techniques and fundamentals. Something that patriots defenses always had no matter what the roster make up was.

 

[Foxypats]

“Bad since SB53”… strawman much? Read my post again.

That 2019 D’s ranking was a product of a very easy first half schedule and nothing more. When they faced good teams it all fell apart. How did that “#1” defense look against the Ravens? Texans? Ryan Fitzpatrick’s Dolphins late in the season ? That’s the game where Devante Parker of all people took Gilmore to school. How about Derrick Henry in the playoff game? That’s what I thought.


And 15th in yards. Like I said before points allowed is a product of schedule. Look at how they do against good teams. They got smoked. Also couldn’t stop the run that year.

Once again warriors against bad offenses weaklings against good. You don’t want me to mention that historic playoff ass kicking so I won’t. How they do against the Colts and J Taylor? Titans when they gave up almost 300 yards rushing? Cowboys when they gave up 20 yards on third down to put Dallas in a game tying FG range with little time left? Dolphins in the regular season finale giving up almost 200 rushing? Josh Allen and the Bills in the second regular season game at Gillette?

Only the most uninformed of uninformed fans only look at points and ignore everything else to see how good a defense is. It’s a lot more than that. They haven’t been a truly elite defense that can stop a top offense since SB53 like I said.




Yes they are worse. No question. Now they can’t beat bad teams either. But let’s not pretend Bill was this defensive wizard in recent years that always made his defense awesome every year. No they weren’t.

Ok so Jones throws 2 ints and Dallas has the ball in NE territory anyway, who says they won’t score? And even if they don’t - 24-3 is a close game?

I love the logic that we can’t give Brady credit for carrying a team but we can blame the QB for everything that ails the team. Too funny


Wrong. Their drives were 70, 80, 81, 89, 58, 77 and 39 yards, the last one set up by a long punt return by Micah Hyde.

Literally a defensive embarrassment for the ages. No team had ever allowed a team to score a TD on every single drive they had in the playoffs. Shocking really that a BB team would be that unprepared. It was Pats weather too… the type of freezing cold game we’d all salivate over in the good old days.



That’s nonsense. I’d expect flailing around like that from Wozzy but you’re smarter than that.

And if that was true (it’s not but for arguments sake), say the defense just gives up once they see the QB struggle… that’s the kind of total coaching failure that would get coaches fired. You really want to make that argument?

I’m afraid those facts aren’t what you think they are.

Truly great defenses can get clutch stops and stop good offenses. This Pats defense for whatever reason hasn’t since that SB. Hopefully they will get back to that point someday soon.

Once again you interject Brady in to this. I have always been a fan of Brady's but I do not think he walks on water like some do over here. By the same token I have always been a fan of Bill's and he certainly does not walk on water either. I do however believe that Bill's defense took a nose dive from 2022 and that in large part was due to an incompetent offense. No defense, no matter how good they are cannot play to its full potential if game after game the o keeps getting 3 and outs. You say QB is the most important position ( as that Brady was more important to this team than BB ) so why are we giving Mac a pass on his crappy play ? The defense was average to start with last year and they got worse because of the offense. There is just so much a coach can do. Inspite of their crappy play, I always saw Bill talking to the team on the sidelines, coaching them to the last second. Mayo does none of that and to get back on topic, he is a terrible coach and his defense is worse than any defense Bill put together with the exception of maybe 2002.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

All I’ve seen is Mayo and Covington being blamed.

You have not seen AVP and Wolf being blamed?
Really? That is hard to believe.

Wolf's 2024 draft, except for Maye, is a disaster. Wolf's 2024 FA is a disaster. Lots of us think Wolf and Groh should be fired and a professional GM should be brought in.

AVP's play calling is simplistic. He does not seem to have much depth or creativity. Having said that, AVP has done well with teaching Maye. He seems to be a good QB coach promoted above his pay grade.

 

[TheRainMaker]

You have not seen AVP and Wolf being blamed?
Really? That is hard to believe.

I was referring to the defense.

Wolf's 2024 draft, except for Maye, is a disaster. Wolf's 2024 FA is a disaster. Lots of us think Wolf and Groh should be fired and a professional GM should be brought in.

I agree.

 

[Real fan 02]

You have not seen AVP and Wolf being blamed?
Really? That is hard to believe.

Wolf's 2024 draft, except for Maye, is a disaster. Wolf's 2024 FA is a disaster. Lots of us think Wolf and Groh should be fired and a professional GM should be brought in.

AVP's play calling is simplistic. He does not seem to have much depth or creativity. Having said that, AVP has done well with teaching Maye. He seems to be a good QB coach promoted above his pay grade.

Next season is where everyone is on the clock ??. I fully expect the team to invest in the offseason and defense. If the coaching is still problematic then I think we see changes.

 

[TheRainMaker]

I remember towards the end of the 2011 season where we were giving up 400 yards passing like no tomorrow and Bill telling Nance that the PPG is what mattered to him. Anyone who uses the best metric before PFF an all those other crazy stats came to be.. the old eye test.. simply using the eye test will show they aren't a good defense.. they don't play together and for one another. They can't stop anything an offense does.. there is no resistance. That’s coaching, techniques and fundamentals. Something that patriots defenses always had no matter what the roster make up was.

Bill was doing what he always did and stand up for his players.

 

[Foxypats]

They were certainly good enough in 2019. Opposing offenses caught on to their pass rush gimmicks, but they still had the secondary to match up with anybody.

2020 is when the defense started to really take a dip. 10 of the 16 games they played, they gave up at least 20 points per game and at least 30 points in 3 of those 10 games.

2021 is when the jokes started asking how the weather was whenever they played a good team because that’s the only way they’d be able to hang with a good offense. We were all laughing after the Bills wind game only for the Bills to put up 33 (and could’ve been more) in the next game and 47 the game after that.

2022 and 2023 defenses also gave up 20 points in at least 10 of the 17 games they played.

Just looking at where they “rank” doesn’t tell the full story as they played a lot ****ty offenses to inflate the ranking. In the games they’ve played good offenses is where they looked completely overmatched, but the blame was always put on Mac Jones. Where’s the excuse this season? All I’ve seen is Mayo and Covington being blamed.

The blame was not always put on Mac. I don't want to look back at threads from years gone by, but I know I blamed the coaching staff for a lot of losses especially in 2022. However, I will admit that I did blame Mac for a lot of the losses last year as he was just that bad. The defense was bad too but it starts with the QB as many posters on here say all the time . If they win, the QB usually gets the glory and they get the wrath if they lose. Last years team under achieved as I believe they had more talent than their 4-13 record and I blame the coaches for that also. But this year the eye test shows that they are worse than last year as in no effort at all except the Chicago game. If it wasn't for Maye, this season would be so unwatchable. He makes me excited for what the future could potentially be. Mayo needs to go, he has no clue on what he is doing and to see the defense give up the run and pass game after game is so disheartening.

 

[Real fan 02]

Bill was doing what he always did and stand up for his players.

I can agree to that. Alot of it is a reflection on him that he did so as he coached the players he selected.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Next season is where everyone is on the clock ??. I fully expect the team to invest in the offseason and defense. If the coaching is still problematic then I think we see changes.

Hopefully we change again in the 2025 off season. We need professional management and coaching.

 

[TheRainMaker]

However, I will admit that I did blame Mac for a lot of the losses last year as he was just that bad. The defense was bad too but it starts with the QB as many posters on here say all the time

If they win, the QB usually gets the glory and they get the wrath if they lose.

I agree. It all starts with the QB who can set the tone for the rest of the team. If the QB can put drives together and score points, it can help a less talented defense not play on ice skates and play more downhill. When the offense doesn't score, it exposes a bad defense.

If it wasn't for Maye, this season would be so unwatchable. He makes me excited for what the future could potentially be.

100% this. This is the first year I've been disinterested in a Patriots teams since I've followed them in the mid 90's. Maye has made it interesting.

Mayo needs to go, he has no clue on what he is doing and to see the defense give up the run and pass game after game is so disheartening.

I agree. It's amazing that Bob Kraft didn't think Bill Belichick was ready to be a HC again after the 1996 season, but he thought Mayo was this season? I know it's going to be tough for Bob to do this, but he's going to have to have the tough meeting with Mayo and let him go. Mayo wasn't ready which isn't his fault he was offered the job which we'd all take.

 

[Real fan 02]

Hopefully we change again in the 2025 off season. We need professional management and coaching.

Agreed there. Drake needs top notch coaching he's getting that in his development but needs that from his HC on field, situational and just general awareness is what is badly needed.