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PostGame Thread Patriots Lose to the Dolphins 15-10, Drop to 1-4

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This is your answer as to why?

Just wait until this happens to KC and they don't rule it the same way.

Incoming rule clarification that makes sense. Count on it.
I don't know what's so complicated. You can hate the rule but it's pretty normal while taking a step for one or the other a toe or a heel to hit a split second before the other and they've written in the rules that this does not matter if either lands out of bounds you're out of bounds.

If you think maybe in this instance there was enough of a delay or just hate the rule then so be it. A lot of people thought the tuck rule was dumb but it was called right at the time and even got changed years later. Maybe they reword this if it happens to KC in a key playoff game but until then it is what it is.
 
I don't know what's so complicated. You can hate the rule but it's pretty normal while taking a step for one or the other a toe or a heel to hit a split second before the other and they've written in the rules that this does not matter if either lands out of bounds you're out of bounds.

If you think maybe in this instance there was enough of a delay or just hate the rule then so be it. A lot of people thought the tuck rule was dumb but it was called right at the time and even got changed years later. Maybe they reword this if it happens to KC in a key playoff game but until then it is what it is.
What's complicated is that the "delay" the second part of the ruling clearly states.

There was plenty of delay. He got the toes in.

It's a TD.
 
What's complicated is that the "delay" the second part of the ruling clearly states.

There was plenty of delay. He got the toes in.

It's a TD.
Ok then you've mostly just been saying you think it's a dumb rule but if you think there was enough delay then I guess we got screwed is a fair conclusion.
 
Ok then you've mostly just been saying you think it's a dumb rule but if you think there was enough delay then I guess we got screwed is a fair conclusion.

Screwed is subjective. I'm glad we lost lol.

I'm just saying I would hate to lose a game like that when we actually have something meaningful to play for.
 
How much of the problem is the culture that the Krafts have allowed to develop?

I remember the reports of Jonathan’s involvement in the draft process that led to the selection of Maye. Is Jonathan going to be a meddler?

Is it possible that some of the inexplicable moves in recent years by BB, like the Joe Judge and Matt Patricia could have been a result of bad blood between BB and the Krafts, and was a BB version of “in your face”?

BB doesn’t seem the type to air grievances in public, so could something like that he his pushback?

I wonder if a solution of hiring a GM that BB respected, along with the Krafts being seen and not heard, could have led to a better situation than we are seeing today.
There was something very off with BB the final few years. It was time. My gripe isn’t that they moved on, it’s what happened after.
 
As of this moment the Patriots own the first pick in the 2025 NFL draft.

 
Okay, so I guess I'm way out of step with the fanbase. I was under the impression that we were in the first year of a rebuild under a new coach, knew we had a bunch of spare parts and young guys at several position groups particularly the offensive line and had lost the two main defensive dudes in the middle of our at-the-time decent defense for the year. I had therefore concluded, obviously wrongly, that our objectives this year were to figure out some important things going forward about the players and schemes we were going to take as our direction while building experience among our rookies and new coaching staff and carefully shepherding our #3 Draft Pick QB so he can be put in a position to succeed. The not-so-subtle but understood aspect of this is that we were NOT playing to win, in terms of trying to somehow sneak into the Wild Card spot because that was basically unattainable and not particularly desirable for a team in Year 1 of a rebuild, but were focused on the future. Hence we are also looking to get good draft picks for next year too, where we can hopefully get some foundational pieces for critical positions such as the OL where we have a clear talent deficit after years of bad drafting late in the rounds because of our dynastic success.

Having been on vacation (Scotland FTW!) and missed the last two games previous, and not having opened the GDT for quite some time, I'm quite surprised to discover we were in "win now!" mode. I'm shocked that we're already at the stage of wanting to fire the coach in Game 5 since I had understood we were in no position to win given what I wrote above, not to mention that we also lost our anchor and leader on the OL for the season and our two most experienced safeties to boot. This left us with basically two giant holes up the center of the Offense and Defense, and you could easily see the impacts this had on our inability to stop their running game and pass rush.

I don't get it. It was a comically entertaining game, with Buttfumble Sanchez providing a suitable substitute for the Benny Hill theme throughout the travesty while the referees tried to deal with having been accidentally dropped off at a mid-level high school football game. Yet the GDT was not at all unlike it used to be when the games mattered and we were trying to win and usually did. Do we really want Maye getting the crap beat out of him as he runs for his life behind the remnants of a college offensive line like poor Jacoby did? Will this "help" him progress towards becoming an elite QB? Football, I had heard, was won in the trenches and we ain't got nobody there to compete. So why sacrifice the future for a meaningless win against another crappy football team. Let me remind you - Miami was 11-6 and lost in the Wild Card game last year, then lost their #1 high draft pick QB to injury and look at what they're like now.

So I'm watching first of all because I'm a fan of the NEP and have done so since 1973 and watched through the years even when they went 1-15 (Marc Wilson! Tommy Hodson!) and weren't much better afterwards (Hugh Millen!). As with then, I look for guys I can root for, diamonds or at least agates in the rough, some progression in where we're going, things like that. I don't recall venting angrily although I probably had a few laughs shaking my head sadly and making funny comments about the pathetic state of the team. And probably drank a lot more than I do now.

So in that vein, allow me to provide a small amount of positivity that I saw. Jacoby is who he is and we knew that already, he's there to take hits while we improve our draft position and try to get some sort of continuity and protection from the OL. He showed real toughness and leadership while trying to win against the odds. Good job buddy, and tough way to make a living but he did it like the Pro he is. No, he's not a high level QB. Were you under the impression that he was?

Marte Mapu I thought played with heart and handled a difficult task as the Defensive Captain on an undermanned side quite well, all things considered. The D played much better than they were given credit for, hard when you're out on the field being pounded for so long, you wear down. Also props to Christian Gonzalez who is a real one and future All-Pro IMHO. The Joneses played hard and well too. Not a bad performance until they broke down against the run late given the lack of Duggar and Peppers.

Rham ran hard and protected the football, showed his elusiveness and toughness again. Polk gets open and makes catches, looks like he's a keeper. Douglas had some important plays and could well have had more if our QB were a higher level one. Boutte showed up in the run and passing games. Guess they're easing Bourne back into the mix. The OL prevented anything sustainable from happening because they were just barely College level and couldn't stop committing penalties. That's clearly the thing we need to focus on fixing.

So, for me, and I understand I'm in a very small minority here, I actually enjoyed that game and watched it to the end and saw some things I can look forward to in the future - the growth of the WRs and the young guys on the Defense in particular. I'm up for trading pieces for Draft picks and I am not at all phased by losing even to teams as sad as these LOLphins were since it gives us a real leg up on the draft position. Give us a real OT or two and nobody will remember this game except for the comedy. When life gives you lemons...
 
I don’t want to blast Mayo cause the injuries to both sides of the ball have been crushing, especially on defense. But me personally I never felt great or good about his hiring.
he didnt climb the ladder, he took the elevator
 
Okay, so I guess I'm way out of step with the fanbase. I was under the impression that we were in the first year of a rebuild under a new coach, knew we had a bunch of spare parts and young guys at several position groups particularly the offensive line and had lost the two main defensive dudes in the middle of our at-the-time decent defense for the year. I had therefore concluded, obviously wrongly, that our objectives this year were to figure out some important things going forward about the players and schemes we were going to take as our direction while building experience among our rookies and new coaching staff and carefully shepherding our #3 Draft Pick QB so he can be put in a position to succeed. The not-so-subtle but understood aspect of this is that we were NOT playing to win, in terms of trying to somehow sneak into the Wild Card spot because that was basically unattainable and not particularly desirable for a team in Year 1 of a rebuild, but were focused on the future. Hence we are also looking to get good draft picks for next year too, where we can hopefully get some foundational pieces for critical positions such as the OL where we have a clear talent deficit after years of bad drafting late in the rounds because of our dynastic success.

Having been on vacation (Scotland FTW!) and missed the last two games previous, and not having opened the GDT for quite some time, I'm quite surprised to discover we were in "win now!" mode. I'm shocked that we're already at the stage of wanting to fire the coach in Game 5 since I had understood we were in no position to win given what I wrote above, not to mention that we also lost our anchor and leader on the OL for the season and our two most experienced safeties to boot. This left us with basically two giant holes up the center of the Offense and Defense, and you could easily see the impacts this had on our inability to stop their running game and pass rush.

I don't get it. It was a comically entertaining game, with Buttfumble Sanchez providing a suitable substitute for the Benny Hill theme throughout the travesty while the referees tried to deal with having been accidentally dropped off at a mid-level high school football game. Yet the GDT was not at all unlike it used to be when the games mattered and we were trying to win and usually did. Do we really want Maye getting the crap beat out of him as he runs for his life behind the remnants of a college offensive line like poor Jacoby did? Will this "help" him progress towards becoming an elite QB? Football, I had heard, was won in the trenches and we ain't got nobody there to compete. So why sacrifice the future for a meaningless win against another crappy football team. Let me remind you - Miami was 11-6 and lost in the Wild Card game last year, then lost their #1 high draft pick QB to injury and look at what they're like now.

So I'm watching first of all because I'm a fan of the NEP and have done so since 1973 and watched through the years even when they went 1-15 (Marc Wilson! Tommy Hodson!) and weren't much better afterwards (Hugh Millen!). As with then, I look for guys I can root for, diamonds or at least agates in the rough, some progression in where we're going, things like that. I don't recall venting angrily although I probably had a few laughs shaking my head sadly and making funny comments about the pathetic state of the team. And probably drank a lot more than I do now.

So in that vein, allow me to provide a small amount of positivity that I saw. Jacoby is who he is and we knew that already, he's there to take hits while we improve our draft position and try to get some sort of continuity and protection from the OL. He showed real toughness and leadership while trying to win against the odds. Good job buddy, and tough way to make a living but he did it like the Pro he is. No, he's not a high level QB. Were you under the impression that he was?

Marte Mapu I thought played with heart and handled a difficult task as the Defensive Captain on an undermanned side quite well, all things considered. The D played much better than they were given credit for, hard when you're out on the field being pounded for so long, you wear down. Also props to Christian Gonzalez who is a real one and future All-Pro IMHO. The Joneses played hard and well too. Not a bad performance until they broke down against the run late given the lack of Duggar and Peppers.

Rham ran hard and protected the football, showed his elusiveness and toughness again. Polk gets open and makes catches, looks like he's a keeper. Douglas had some important plays and could well have had more if our QB were a higher level one. Boutte showed up in the run and passing games. Guess they're easing Bourne back into the mix. The OL prevented anything sustainable from happening because they were just barely College level and couldn't stop committing penalties. That's clearly the thing we need to focus on fixing.

So, for me, and I understand I'm in a very small minority here, I actually enjoyed that game and watched it to the end and saw some things I can look forward to in the future - the growth of the WRs and the young guys on the Defense in particular. I'm up for trading pieces for Draft picks and I am not at all phased by losing even to teams as sad as these LOLphins were since it gives us a real leg up on the draft position. Give us a real OT or two and nobody will remember this game except for the comedy. When life gives you lemons...
 
I take my cap off to you sir. We knew it was going to be the season it is turning out to be, and yes some of it is not pretty. But I think some "fans" can't help themselves, they just love to complain. Its in their DNA.
 
Okay, so I guess I'm way out of step with the fanbase. I was under the impression that we were in the first year of a rebuild under a new coach, knew we had a bunch of spare parts and young guys at several position groups particularly the offensive line and had lost the two main defensive dudes in the middle of our at-the-time decent defense for the year. I had therefore concluded, obviously wrongly, that our objectives this year were to figure out some important things going forward about the players and schemes we were going to take as our direction while building experience among our rookies and new coaching staff and carefully shepherding our #3 Draft Pick QB so he can be put in a position to succeed. The not-so-subtle but understood aspect of this is that we were NOT playing to win, in terms of trying to somehow sneak into the Wild Card spot because that was basically unattainable and not particularly desirable for a team in Year 1 of a rebuild, but were focused on the future. Hence we are also looking to get good draft picks for next year too, where we can hopefully get some foundational pieces for critical positions such as the OL where we have a clear talent deficit after years of bad drafting late in the rounds because of our dynastic success.

Having been on vacation (Scotland FTW!) and missed the last two games previous, and not having opened the GDT for quite some time, I'm quite surprised to discover we were in "win now!" mode. I'm shocked that we're already at the stage of wanting to fire the coach in Game 5 since I had understood we were in no position to win given what I wrote above, not to mention that we also lost our anchor and leader on the OL for the season and our two most experienced safeties to boot. This left us with basically two giant holes up the center of the Offense and Defense, and you could easily see the impacts this had on our inability to stop their running game and pass rush.

I don't get it. It was a comically entertaining game, with Buttfumble Sanchez providing a suitable substitute for the Benny Hill theme throughout the travesty while the referees tried to deal with having been accidentally dropped off at a mid-level high school football game. Yet the GDT was not at all unlike it used to be when the games mattered and we were trying to win and usually did. Do we really want Maye getting the crap beat out of him as he runs for his life behind the remnants of a college offensive line like poor Jacoby did? Will this "help" him progress towards becoming an elite QB? Football, I had heard, was won in the trenches and we ain't got nobody there to compete. So why sacrifice the future for a meaningless win against another crappy football team. Let me remind you - Miami was 11-6 and lost in the Wild Card game last year, then lost their #1 high draft pick QB to injury and look at what they're like now.

So I'm watching first of all because I'm a fan of the NEP and have done so since 1973 and watched through the years even when they went 1-15 (Marc Wilson! Tommy Hodson!) and weren't much better afterwards (Hugh Millen!). As with then, I look for guys I can root for, diamonds or at least agates in the rough, some progression in where we're going, things like that. I don't recall venting angrily although I probably had a few laughs shaking my head sadly and making funny comments about the pathetic state of the team. And probably drank a lot more than I do now.

So in that vein, allow me to provide a small amount of positivity that I saw. Jacoby is who he is and we knew that already, he's there to take hits while we improve our draft position and try to get some sort of continuity and protection from the OL. He showed real toughness and leadership while trying to win against the odds. Good job buddy, and tough way to make a living but he did it like the Pro he is. No, he's not a high level QB. Were you under the impression that he was?

Marte Mapu I thought played with heart and handled a difficult task as the Defensive Captain on an undermanned side quite well, all things considered. The D played much better than they were given credit for, hard when you're out on the field being pounded for so long, you wear down. Also props to Christian Gonzalez who is a real one and future All-Pro IMHO. The Joneses played hard and well too. Not a bad performance until they broke down against the run late given the lack of Duggar and Peppers.

Rham ran hard and protected the football, showed his elusiveness and toughness again. Polk gets open and makes catches, looks like he's a keeper. Douglas had some important plays and could well have had more if our QB were a higher level one. Boutte showed up in the run and passing games. Guess they're easing Bourne back into the mix. The OL prevented anything sustainable from happening because they were just barely College level and couldn't stop committing penalties. That's clearly the thing we need to focus on fixing.

So, for me, and I understand I'm in a very small minority here, I actually enjoyed that game and watched it to the end and saw some things I can look forward to in the future - the growth of the WRs and the young guys on the Defense in particular. I'm up for trading pieces for Draft picks and I am not at all phased by losing even to teams as sad as these LOLphins were since it gives us a real leg up on the draft position. Give us a real OT or two and nobody will remember this game except for the comedy. When life gives you lemons...
As much as I agree with most of your post, find watching these games cringeworthy to the point where I am at one of my lowest points of Pats Fandom, find these games boring.. 12 penalties & TOP 35 to 25 no team will win many games with those two stats.
Have yet to see any creativity in any offensive game plan so far this year... the O game plans are out vanillaing vanilla.
Something has to change here cause with the dearth of talent this team might not win another game this year.
 
As much as I agree with most of your post, find watching these games cringeworthy to the point where I am at one of my lowest points of Pats Fandom, find these games boring.. 12 penalties & TOP 35 to 25 no team will win many games with those two stats.
Have yet to see any creativity in any offensive game plan so far this year... the O game plans are out vanillaing vanilla.
Something has to change here cause with the dearth of talent this team might not win another game this year.
I would be fine with losing if I was seeing progress and was under the impression the coaches have a small idea of what they are doing.

It’s totally the opposite. Mayo primarily has no idea what he is doing. I see no progression. He keeps telling the same thing over and over again and nothing is changing. It’s about execution, it’s about execution, it’s about execution. Like their gameplan are perfect and it’s just the player screwing up.

I am really down on Mayo. I feel he has no control of this team. It’s like AVP can do whatever he wants and it’s not working but Mayo keeps letting him screw up. At some point Mayo has to come in and tell him what he needs to do.

How can you be at the 12 yds line 1st & 10 with a 1:13 left, 3 timeouts, averaging 7.9 yds/c and pass 4 times? It’s his role to go to AVP and tell him to run the f*cking ball!
 
I would be fine with losing if I was seeing progress and was under the impression the coaches have a small idea of what they are doing.

It’s totally the opposite. Mayo primarily has no idea what he is doing. I see no progression. He keeps telling the same thing over and over again and nothing is changing. It’s about execution, it’s about execution, it’s about execution. Like their gameplan are perfect and it’s just the player screwing up.

I am really down on Mayo. I feel he has no control of this team. It’s like AVP can do whatever he wants and it’s not working but Mayo keeps letting him screw up. At some point Mayo has to come in and tell him what he needs to do.

How can you be at the 12 yds line 1st & 10 with a 1:13 left, 3 timeouts, averaging 7.9 yds/c and pass 4 times? It’s his role to go to AVP and tell him to run the f*cking ball!

Yeah but Mayo gave the players a picture of a mirror. You have to admit how powerful that is. Great and clever coaching with that mirror pic.
 
I DVR'd the game and watched it last night after knowing the score. Miami is banged up and no powerhouse, but I thought there were some positives.

Jacoby had time to throw the ball
The run game was there - its nice having Onwenu back at guard. I saw Leverett make a nice block in the run game
I thought AVP had some nice play calls - screens to DD etc
Gonzo almost had 2 pics
The D played amped up
The blocked kicks
 
Now that I’ve had time to reflect on the game, I blame the loss on the teams god awful uniforms. Goodnight.

Couldn't agree more. I'll be pissed if they don't change up the uniforms next year.
 
You don't understand it because you don't have eyes. The moment he tapped his second foot inbounds, it's TD. Play is dead.

Had he tapped his two feet like he did and fell backwards without his heel touching the out of bounds, it's a TD. So why is it that when your ass is out of bounds the play is over and the TD stands but when both feet are in bounds it's not and we have to wait to see which part of you body hits out of bounds next?

It's a catch. It'll come up again this season and they'll rule a completely different way as they always do.
I’m sorry but you don’t understand the rule.
He didn’t tap his toe, his entire foot landed, and part of it was out of bounds.

Yes if his heels didn’t come down it’s a catch because his feet would have been in bounds. The second foot wasn’t because he exact didn’t tap it, the entire foot landed and part was out of bounds.

It won’t be called differently, because it was a simple call for anyone who understands the rule.
 
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