PATRIOTS TRAINING CAMP Monday Patriots Training Camp Thread 7/29

[rochrist]

Hard to be worse than 10 was but hard to say we are going to be better. We went out and found the one guy who may be worse and seem intent on playing him instead of the future.
Brissett may be the only qb out there with worse w/l record, ypa and td% than 10.

And the second best TD to INT ratio in the NFL. He's the opposite of Turnover Mac. He also has an arm, another important feature Mac lacked.

 

[pazrul72]

There just isn’t. Brady not playing as a rookie doesn’t mean he wouldn’t have progressed faster if he had played. You are looking at correlation and cherry picking rather than causation. I agree it’s best you sit this one out.

I swore i wouldnt get into this again but you just had to throw that last line in there didnt you? If it was just Brady, or just Mahomes, or just Rodgers you might have a point but its the vast majority of the top 20 best QBs of all time that sat most or all of thier rookie year. Its not a small sample and its not cherry picking. Its pretty much historical fact if you want your rookie to reach thier full potential you let them adjust to the speed and complexity of the NFL game in practice and watching a vet while developing thier own game without the pressure of starting.

 

[Ring 6]

I swore i wouldnt get into this again but you just had to throw that last line in there didnt you? If it was just Brady, or just Mahomes, or just Rodgers you might have a point but its the vast majority of the top 20 best QBs of all time that sat most or all of thier rookie year. Its not a small sample and its not cherry picking. Its pretty much historical fact if you want your rookie to reach thier full potential you let them adjust to the speed and complexity of the NFL game in practice and watching a vet while developing thier own game without the pressure of starting.

Again correlation isn’t causation.
They all would have been further ahead at the same point if they had played.
There is no evidence that you “adjust to the speed of the game” better by sitting on your butt than by playing. If the pressure of starting is a problem you have the wrong guy.

 

[Ring 6]

And the second best TD to INT ratio in the NFL. He's the opposite of Turnover Mac. He also has an arm, another important feature Mac lacked.

Who has the second best Td/int ratio in the nfl?

Lack of TDs and poor YPA are the result of “bad arm” or “bad vision” and brissett is among the very worst in both.

 

[Ring 6]

And the second best TD to INT ratio in the NFL. He's the opposite of Turnover Mac. He also has an arm, another important feature Mac lacked.

Brisset has 51 tds 23 ints which is 2.2
The first 2 guys I looked at:
Purdy 44/15 and Mahomes 219/63 are much better so he can’t have the 2nd best in the NFL. I’m sure there are many more that are over 2.2.

 

[pazrul72]

Again correlation isn’t causation.
They all would have been further ahead at the same point if they had played.
There is no evidence that you “adjust to the speed of the game” better by sitting on your butt than by playing. If the pressure of starting is a problem you have the wrong guy.

 

[Ring 6]

I’ll explain it for you. Correlation means 2 things happened. Causation means 1 thing happened because of the other.
It is entirely reasonable that a QB who sits out and is then good would be further along had he played. There is no evidence that players became good because of sitting.

 

[Wozzy]

I’ll explain it for you. Correlation means 2 things happened. Causation means 1 thing happened because of the other.
It is entirely reasonable that a QB who sits out and is then good would be further along had he played. There is no evidence that players became good because of sitting.

Players sat because the coaches knew they weren't ready.

Maye is having trouble getting the offense set up pre-snap in camp, then he's having trouble receiving the snap cleanly, you know, having played almost exclusively from the shotgun in college... but you think he's ready for NFL game speed. Good grief...

 

[State]

And the ACC isn’t the SEC. Or PAC 10, RIP. Or maybe even the Big Ten.

Be patient with the young man.

BTW, who’s our LT?

 

[State]

Brady, Rogers, Kermit, Hurts, Love...?

Look at the Jets throwing “franchise” QBs behind leaky OLs. They’ve learned their lesson.

Olu Fashanu was their first round pick.

 

[Ring 6]

Players sat because the coaches knew they weren't ready.

Maye is having trouble getting the offense set up pre-snap in camp, then he's having trouble receiving the snap cleanly, you know, having played almost exclusively from the shotgun in college... but you think he's ready for NFL game speed. Good grief...

This team shouldn’t be playing for this year, it isn’t going to win.

He needs to work in all of those things working on them in live action will make him better faster.

He’s the qb next year no matter. So we have this year to get him ready to be the best he can next year.
Holding a clipboard won’t make him better, playing football will.

I’m not sure what QBs you were referring to that the coaches knew weren’t ready so they sat. Every one I can think of off the top of my head had an established QB in front of them and the team was playing to win that year.

 

[Zuma]

Ill leave it at i violently disagree with you.

 

[Ring 6]

History has shown repeatedly that throwing money at your roster is no recipe for success. In fact it’s a fools way to fix the problem. We see it year after year.

History has also shown repeatedly that not spending to get players is worse. The Rams bought a SB. Trying to win with smart fiscal choices doesn’t work when you leave 40,000,000 on the table. More frightening is the way they used the cap room. A 1 year 7 mill deal takes up as much cap as a 5 yr 60 mill with a 25 mill signing bonus. Those are 2 very different players.

 

[Ring 6]

Ridley wasn't coming here and had no desire to come here, it was obvious. Especially when reports came out of them "using" the Patriots against Jacksonville prior to when Tennessee jumped in. Barring paying him at the top of the payscale - which he doesn't deserve - he wasn't coming here. He leveraged the team to land where he wanted to, so it is what it is.

We're already seeing players react to in-house deals and you've got two rookies that if they pan out, will also eventually be looking to get paid and will use that type of contract as a benchmark when they come looking to renew. Drawing the line and letting him go was the right move.

Nonetheless they had a bonanza of cap space and let 40 mill on the table. Their current rostered payroll under contract has to be at or near the bottom. They had 100 mill to spend and where will they be better?

 

[Zuma]

Nonetheless they had a bonanza of cap space and let 40 mill on the table. Their current rostered payroll under contract has to be at or near the bottom. They had 100 mill to spend and where will they be better?

It’s a 5 step process…

1. Re-sign the good existing players
2. Eval the rookies and youngsters in 2024
3. Spend $$$ on free agents in 2025 to fill holes
4. Win Superbowl
5. Repeat

 

[Ian]

Nonetheless they had a bonanza of cap space and let 40 mill on the table. Their current rostered payroll under contract has to be at or near the bottom. They had 100 mill to spend and where will they be better?

Yeah, but there weren’t exactly a lot of options. The better players went to more competitive situations, which better players can do because they earned that ability. So it’s not like they had much of a chance. Money does talk, but you’d have to overwhelm them to get them and that screws up everything else internally.

I’ve said it before but players also want a shot at postseason incentives and those opportunities, especially given the limited shelf life of skill players. The guys who weren’t in demand are the ones they ended up signing, and they wisely at least kept their core guys on both sides and cut ties with the wrong ones.

It is what it is. If Maye pans out and they’re competitive, they’ll have a better shot next March. And I think that’ll be the better barometer. But this spring, they were a bad team with an unknown coach and too many questions.

 

[Ring 6]

It’s a 5 step process…

1. Re-sign the good existing players
2. Eval the rookies and youngsters in 2024
3. Spend $$$ on free agents in 2025 to fill holes
4. Win Superbowl
5. Repeat

So you agree they are not trying to win now and refuse to spend? There is no reason to not bring in good players you can afford. You are predicting a SB win in 2025?

 

[Ring 6]

Yeah, but there weren’t exactly a lot of options. The better players went to more competitive situations, which better players can do because they earned that ability. So it’s not like they had much of a chance. Money does talk, but you’d have to overwhelm them to get them and that screws up everything else internally.

I’ve said it before but players also want a shot at postseason incentives and those opportunities, especially given the limited shelf life of skill players. The guys who weren’t in demand are the ones they ended up signing, and they wisely at least kept their core guys on both sides and cut ties with the wrong ones.

It is what it is. If Maye pans out and they’re competitive, they’ll have a better shot next March. And I think that’ll be the better barometer. But this spring, they were a bad team with an unknown coach and too many questions.

There were a lot of free agents. They didn’t even try on most of the expensive ones. Bad teams sign big free agents every year. But even if they couldn’t get the most sight after guy, they could have improved the roster. Do you really see any improvement?

 

[Ian]

There were a lot of free agents. They didn’t even try on most of the expensive ones. Bad teams sign big free agents every year. But even if they couldn’t get the most sight after guy, they could have improved the roster. Do you really see any improvement?

Those bad teams at least usually have an established starter and a known coach. And they were in on several big name players and essentially were overlooked. The only name that lingered was the tackle that people were leery about (his name escapes me). Would have been nice to maybe sign him, but I’m not mad about it.

Other than that, I can’t think of anybody notable they truly missed out on. As we heard, they inquired on pretty much everybody. Not to mention, I’d rather have them splurge after they get their feet back under them rather than waste a year of somebody under contract.

 

[Ian]

So you agree they are not trying to win now and refuse to spend? There is no reason to not bring in good players you can afford. You are predicting a SB win in 2025?

You say that, but who did you think they had a shot to sign and didn’t attempt it or cheaped out on? I can’t think of anybody. It’s not like it was a deep or memorable free agent class, by any means.