PATRIOTS TRAINING CAMP Monday Patriots Training Camp Thread 7/29

[captain stone]

Of course you start the rookie. He’s the future. He gains nothing sitting out.

Brady, Rogers, Kermit, Hurts, Love...?

 

[Ring 6]

Pretty sure I heard they spent the 4th most cash this offseason, they have close to 90 players on the roster now and there's nobody out there on the free agency wire worth spending on. Who exactly should they sign?

Moreover you don't spend the entirety of your cap in one offseason, not when you can roll some of that over and have the most cap next offseason with a whole new gaggle of free agents available to sign. They can vastly improve the team then... thinking you're going to turn your team around in one offseason with expensive free agents is not realistic or sustainable. You need to develop rookies, second and third year players.

I slammed the collaboration station earlier this offseason for not doing more to improve the offensive tackle situation, but there wasn't exactly a bunch of blue chip tackles available in free agency. They threw their lot in with Chuks Okorafor, I preferred 2-3 other similarly priced tackles because there wasn't one dominant guy available to sign. It's hard to bemoan them for being cheap when there was a nobody to sign. The WR's who got massive deals weren't worthy of them, Calvin Ridley's deal is a joke. Better to draft WR's and develop them.

I don't see the Patriots being cheap part you're referring too, and they have as much or more talent than a lot of teams expected to be competitive... they're just young and inexperienced. If they develop quickly this team could be fun to watch and win a lot more games than expected.

They had the most cap shave in the league and they left 40 million on the table. You don’t do that if you are trying to out the best team on the field.
You are right they can’t spend much if it now, they missed the boat when they sat on their hands in free agency.
It would be better to overpay Calvin Ridley than to just not try to be competitive.
There is no more talent than last year unless you count the QB they seem to not want to play. Where are the upgrades?

 

[Ring 6]

Brady, Rogers, Kermit, Hurts, Love...?

There is no reason to believe those players wouldn’t have progressed faster by playing.

 

[PatsFan2]

He’ll still suck. If he develops some, he has a Brissett type ceiling in his future.

I’ll take Brissett/Maye all day seven days a week.

Ridley went to the team stupid enough to overpay him… don’t be the stupid team, be a smart team.

Can't be a Cheap Team either cheapies never win.

 

[Ring 6]

There are tons of legitimate arguments along with historical evidence i showed you repeatedly 3 years ago but i am not rehashing that again. Ill leave it at i violently disagree with you.

There just isn’t. Brady not playing as a rookie doesn’t mean he wouldn’t have progressed faster if he had played. You are looking at correlation and cherry picking rather than causation. I agree it’s best you sit this one out.

 

[Ring 6]

He’ll still suck. If he develops some, he has a Brissett type ceiling in his future.

I’ll take Brissett/Maye all day seven days a week.

Ridley went to the team stupid enough to overpay him… don’t be the stupid team, be a smart team.

The “stupid” team has a player the “smart” one has cash in the owners pocket and no player.

 

[Wozzy]

They had the most cap shave in the league and they left 40 million on the table. You don’t do that if you are trying to out the best team on the field.
You are right they can’t spend much if it now, they missed the boat when they sat on their hands in free agency.
It would be better to overpay Calvin Ridley than to just not try to be competitive.
There is no more talent than last year unless you count the QB they seem to not want to play. Where are the upgrades?

You’re acting like there were enough free agents to turn this roster into a super bowl contender… there wasn’t.

When Calvin Ridley and Jonah Jackson signed the largest contracts at their respective positions and neither are top ten at their positions… what does that tell you?

The Pats will carry a large chunk of that money over to next offseason, where there will be a brand new free agent class with much better players at positions of need. Guys worthy of paying near top of the market.

Just because you have money to burn doesn’t mean there will be players worth paying. Develop through the draft, build a foundation, then build out the rest of the house. There’s no shortcut to success.

 

[Ian]

The “stupid” team has a player the “smart” one has cash in the owners pocket and no player.

Ridley wasn't coming here and had no desire to come here, it was obvious. Especially when reports came out of them "using" the Patriots against Jacksonville prior to when Tennessee jumped in. Barring paying him at the top of the payscale - which he doesn't deserve - he wasn't coming here. He leveraged the team to land where he wanted to, so it is what it is.

We're already seeing players react to in-house deals and you've got two rookies that if they pan out, will also eventually be looking to get paid and will use that type of contract as a benchmark when they come looking to renew. Drawing the line and letting him go was the right move.

 

[Wozzy]

The “stupid” team has a player the “smart” one has cash in the owners pocket and no player.

History has shown repeatedly that throwing money at your roster is no recipe for success. In fact it’s a fools way to fix the problem. We see it year after year.

 

[Wozzy]

Can't be a Cheap Team either cheapies never win.

We won for two decades being fiscally responsible…

 

[PatsFan2]

We won for two decades being fiscally responsible…

With a GOAT QB and GOAT HC how times have changed.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

A team can’t be one of the highest spending teams in the NFL this offseason and be considered “cheap.” That’s not how logic works.

Sure you can. You start with the most cap space, spend a lot, but still have a lot of cap space left. You are math challenged.

Also a team like the dynasty Patriots was fiscally responsible, which is why they didn’t suffer through multiple low digit win seasons over that time. They fielded a competitive team every season.

Yup. Agreed.

You have veered off subject. Your posts very commonly veer off subject in the second line of your post. It is a technique used by people that try to change the subject instead of addressing the issue at hand.

Being fiscally responsible is good. That means spending to the cap, and even spending a few future cap dollars like the Pats did for years and years. That is not what the present "cheap" Pats are doing. Did I ever post that the Pats were cheap when they were being fiscally responsible? No. I posted when the Pats started being cheap.

The Dynasty Patriots were not unique in that regard, teams like the Steelers, Packers and other small market teams were also successful long term because they didn’t spend money like drunken sailors only to endure losing seasons for stretches while they repaired their salary cap.

Again you are changing the subject. No-one said the Pats should spend like drunken sailors. We want the Pats to be fiscally responsible like they used to be and not cheap like they are presently being. No idea why you are arguing against being fiscally responsible. Your argument is all over the place becuase you are constantly switching subjects.

I prefer these smart money team building practices to perennial losers who burn cash only to have to start over again and again.

"Smart money" is another meaningless phrase you introduce because it sounds smart to you.

Maybe we can agree that the Pats should be "fiscally responsible" like they were for years and years? If yes, then the Pats should have spent a lot more of their cap in 2024. It is no more complicated than that.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

We won for two decades being fiscally responsible…

Yes, we won being fiscally responsible, which is a good thing. I agree.

The 2024 Pats are not being fiscally responsible, they are being cheap. You seem to not understand the difference even though you use the phrases.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Brady, Rogers, Kermit, Hurts, Love...?

I think Payton and Josh Allen started and were awful for 2 years and then shined. I think it can go either way.

I do not think Maye is ready technique wise. I still see the hitch in his throw and his footwork is still messed up. I am not sure how starting will help Maye fix his fundamental mechanics. Although Josh Allen worked his way through mechanics issues while starting, so I am probably not the best guy to comment.

 

[Wozzy]

With a GOAT QB and GOAT HC how times have changed.

You act like Brady was the only great QB over those two decades and BB was the only great coach. A lot of the Patriots success had to do with their business model. Again, other small market teams did the same thing and were successful over time.

If spending more money equated to winning, Jerry Jones would have won rings without Jimmy Johnson and Dan Snyder would have won rings in Washington. “Spend more” does not equate to winning. History has proven this.

 

[Wozzy]

Sure you can. You start with the most cap space, spend a lot, but still have a lot of cap space left. You are math challenged.


Yup. Agreed.

You have veered off subject. Your posts very commonly veer off subject in the second line of your post. It is a technique used by people that try to change the subject instead of addressing the issue at hand.

Being fiscally responsible is good. That means spending to the cap, and even spending a few future cap dollars like the Pats did for years and years. That is not what the present "cheap" Pats are doing. Did I ever post that the Pats were cheap when they were being fiscally responsible? No. I posted when the Pats started being cheap.

Again you are changing the subject. No-one said the Pats should spend like drunken sailors. We want the Pats to be fiscally responsible like they used to be and not cheap like they are presently being. No idea why you are arguing against being fiscally responsible. Your argument is all over the place becuase you are constantly switching subjects.

"Smart money" is another meaningless phrase you introduce because it sounds smart to you.

Maybe we can agree that the Pats should be "fiscally responsible" like they were for years and years? If yes, then the Pats should have spent a lot more of their cap in 2024. It is no more complicated than that.

You still haven’t told us which amazing and phenomenal free agents the Pat’s should have extended themselves for this offseason… why not?

 

[Wozzy]

Yes, we won being fiscally responsible, which is a good thing. I agree.

The 2024 Pats are not being fiscally responsible, they are being cheap. You seem to not understand the difference even though you use the phrases.

The cap isn’t a one year snapshot, it’s a multiyear snapshot.

If there are no great players to sign in free agency… you don’t spend money simply to spend money.

An average player in 2024 is still going to be that in 2025…. even if you overpaid him.

 

[KCSVEN]

Will Levis sucks balls…

I think he showed some flashes last year, a little early to make a definitive call on him. If he can learn to avoid the "stupid" play he might be a solid QB.
He has the 30th ranked offensive line, as you stated many times it starts on the line.
He's got Ridley to add to Hopkins, will definitely test your theory line matters more than receivers with the Titans.

 

[Wozzy]

I think he showed some flashes last year, a little early to make a definitive call on him. If he can learn to avoid the "stupid" play he might be a solid QB.
He has the 30th ranked offensive line, as you stated many times it starts on the line.
He's got Ridley to add to Hopkins, will definitely test your theory line matters more than receivers with the Titans.

Except he wasn’t good enough in college. He got overdrafted out of desperation by a bad front office and now we have to hear how good he might become. Guy threw double digit interceptions his last two seasons in college.

Jameis Winston led the entire NFL in passing yards, he was 3rd in TD’s… he still can’t get a starting job years later because he sucked and posted a historic turnover total.

Passing for a lot of yards is negated by throwing a lot of interceptions and fumbling the ball. That only helps in fantasy football and only in leagues that don’t penalize you for turnovers. In real world football turnovers are team killers.

 

[brdmaverick]

I think if we're being honest with ourselves we should essentially just expect a 'get experience season' where Drake Maye and Jerod Mayo work through their rookie seasons. IF we happen to win a few games that would be great, but this is really year 1 of the rebuild.