PATRIOTS TRAINING CAMP Monday Patriots Training Camp Thread 7/29

[sb1]

Hard to be worse than 10 was but hard to say we are going to be better. We went out and found the one guy who may be worse and seem intent on playing him instead of the future.
Brissett may be the only qb out there with worse w/l record, ypa and td% than 10.

Brissett is a journeyman backup QB for a reason. He plays the game safe hence less picks and lower YPA. Doubtful they'll win because of him but he probably doesn't lose games either. I'm fine with this choice for bridge QB and that's all he is. If all goes well Maye finishes the season anyway.

 

[Wozzy]

Im talking about the present.

Obviously you are joking with that list as a response to my question. It’s half a list of what a team trying to compete would have spent missing 40,000,000 of cap room which if spent on high value players might be 150,000,000 cash.

Pretty sure I heard they spent the 4th most cash this offseason, they have close to 90 players on the roster now and there's nobody out there on the free agency wire worth spending on. Who exactly should they sign?

Moreover you don't spend the entirety of your cap in one offseason, not when you can roll some of that over and have the most cap next offseason with a whole new gaggle of free agents available to sign. They can vastly improve the team then... thinking you're going to turn your team around in one offseason with expensive free agents is not realistic or sustainable. You need to develop rookies, second and third year players.

I slammed the collaboration station earlier this offseason for not doing more to improve the offensive tackle situation, but there wasn't exactly a bunch of blue chip tackles available in free agency. They threw their lot in with Chuks Okorafor, I preferred 2-3 other similarly priced tackles because there wasn't one dominant guy available to sign. It's hard to bemoan them for being cheap when there was a nobody to sign. The WR's who got massive deals weren't worthy of them, Calvin Ridley's deal is a joke. Better to draft WR's and develop them.

I don't see the Patriots being cheap part you're referring too, and they have as much or more talent than a lot of teams expected to be competitive... they're just young and inexperienced. If they develop quickly this team could be fun to watch and win a lot more games than expected.

 

[Wozzy]

These are the "big money" acquisitions in your mind? Is that what you meant by posting this list of Patriot players?

Barmore, Onwenu, Duggar are big money acquisitions.

Rhamondre, Hunter Henry, Peppers, Andrews, Tavai, Bourne, Brissett, Jennings, Osborn are very healthy short term deals. If they had more years attached to them they would be big money acquisitions but they were designed to be shorter deals.

I guess the bigger question for you guys is who should they have signed?

Calvin Ridley's contract was stupid, he's not worth that. Just spending money for the sake of spending money is not smart.

 

[Real fan 02]

Players of Judon's caliber have egos. These types of things happen In every organization. I don't get the angst from the NE media... mankins went public about his contract, Ty law famously said Bill lies to feed his family, Vince trashed his locker and stormed out Gillette over his contract, Seymour had an argument with Bill over his contract, so many other players as well.. look at last season KC with Chris Jones his contract dispute coming to the game with his agent while eating popcorn while holding out.

Judon's looking at what he wants not what he's gotten and the fact other players have gotten extended. I love judon, and hopefully it works out if not then he played alot of great football here.

 

[Wozzy]

So show up and pull an Antonio Brown then you get your money?

Blame the cba and players union for the awful contracts

This isn't the first time this happened, it won't be the last. NFL contracts are designed this way, where players have to negotiate in the public sphere or be branded the enemy or greedy by fans who have no idea where negotiations stand.

But sure, don't blame the billionaire owners printing money... blame the guy who has to fight for everything he gets in a sport where the average career lasts three years, and if you survive a decade that's considered a long career.

 

[PatsFan2]

Pretty sure I heard they spent the 4th most cash this offseason, they have close to 90 players on the roster now and there's nobody out there on the free agency wire worth spending on. Who exactly should they sign?

Moreover you don't spend the entirety of your cap in one offseason, not when you can roll some of that over and have the most cap next offseason with a whole new gaggle of free agents available to sign. They can vastly improve the team then... thinking you're going to turn your team around in one offseason with expensive free agents is not realistic or sustainable. You need to develop rookies, second and third year players.

I slammed the collaboration station earlier this offseason for not doing more to improve the offensive tackle situation, but there wasn't exactly a bunch of blue chip tackles available in free agency. They threw their lot in with Chuks Okorafor, I preferred 2-3 other similarly priced tackles because there wasn't one dominant guy available to sign. It's hard to bemoan them for being cheap when there was a nobody to sign. The WR's who got massive deals weren't worthy of them, Calvin Ridley's deal is a joke. Better to draft WR's and develop them.

I don't see the Patriots being cheap part you're referring too, and they have as much or more talent than a lot of teams expected to be competitive... they're just young and inexperienced. If they develop quickly this team could be fun to watch and win a lot more games than expected.

I think it was possibly Mac Jones why he didn't take our offer plus we stunk on Offense *not desirable*. That said if Will Levis is the Real Deal the Titans really helped him in the passing game with their WR acquisitions. Ridley - Tyler Boyd and D-Hop last year: that's a great trio to go along with the younger Treylon Burks who I think will Breakout this year.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Barmore, Onwenu, Duggar are big money acquisitions.

Rhamondre, Hunter Henry, Peppers, Andrews, Tavai, Bourne, Brissett, Jennings, Osborn are very healthy short term deals. If they had more years attached to them they would be big money acquisitions but they were designed to be shorter deals.

I guess the bigger question for you guys is who should they have signed?

Calvin Ridley's contract was stupid, he's not worth that. Just spending money for the sake of spending money is not smart.

By your logic every FA player was over paid and the Pats should never sign anyone.

 

[PatsFan2]

Players of Judon's caliber have egos. These types of things happen In every organization. I don't get the angst from the NE media... mankins went public about his contract, Ty law famously said Bill lies to feed his family, Vince trashed his locker and stormed out Gillette over his contract, Seymour had an argument with Bill over his contract, so many other players as well.. look at last season KC with Chris Jones his contract dispute coming to the game with his agent while eating popcorn while holding out.

Judon's looking at what he wants not what he's gotten and the fact other players have gotten extended. I love judon, and hopefully it works out if not then he played alot of great football here.

They better just pony up and give him the extension that was a smoke and mirror defense without him last year. That was not a very good Defense minus Judon...D Wise couldn't even sniff the QB not to mention J Uche. Judon makes Them Better nuff said!

 

[pazrul72]

If I was trying to defend that side if the argument I’d use a stupid joke too because there is no legitimate argument that footballs players get better by not playing football.

There are tons of legitimate arguments along with historical evidence i showed you repeatedly 3 years ago but i am not rehashing that again. Ill leave it at i violently disagree with you.

 

[Wozzy]

I think it was possibly Mac Jones why he didn't take our offer plus we stunk on Offense *not desirable*. That said if Will Levis is the Real Deal the Titans really helped him in the passing game with their WR acquisitions. Ridley - Tyler Boyd and D-Hop last year: that's a great trio to go along with the younger Treylon Burks who I think will Breakout this year.

Will Levis is as bad as Mac Jones, he stinks, Ridley went to the team that gave him the most money.

We had a better shot at good QB play with the third overall pick and Brissett is already better than Levis. The Pats shouldn’t have matched that offer, he’s not worth that kind of money.

 

[PatsFan2]

Will Levis is as bad as Mac Jones, he stinks, Ridley went to the team that gave him the most money.

We had a better shot at good QB play with the third overall pick and Brissett is already better than Levis. The Pats shouldn’t have matched that offer, he’s not worth that kind of money.

Wozzy please stop.

 

[Wozzy]

By your logic every FA player was over paid and the Pats should never sign anyone.

Huh?

Every contract the Patriots signed was a smart one, good value for the player’s level of skill and athleticism… said this multiple times this offseason.

I argued vehemently with a poster who told me “BB made a mistake” not matching the deal the Chargers gave to JC Jackson. I said it was a massive overpay for a #2 CB, and he was nowhere near a shutdown CB like Gilmore was. Time and results proved this to be correct.

Mike Lombardi has a good saying about free agents. You can’t overpay for “great,” but you can definitely overpay for “good” or merely “average.” Overpaying average/good players is a good way to have a bloated payroll and a middling team.

 

[Wozzy]

Wozzy please stop.

Will Levis sucks balls…

 

[PatsFan2]

Will Levis sucks balls…

We have em on the menu hope he sucks on that day like you say. I'm like an elephant that never forgets Wozzy.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Huh?

Every contract the Patriots signed was a smart one, good value for the player’s level of skill and athleticism… said this multiple times this offseason.

I argued vehemently with a poster who told me “BB made a mistake” not matching the deal the Chargers gave to JC Jackson. I said it was a massive overpay for a #2 CB, and he was nowhere near a shutdown CB like Gilmore was. Time and results proved this to be correct.

Mike Lombardi has a good saying about free agents. You can’t overpay for “great,” but you can definitely overpay for “good” or merely “average.” Overpaying average/good players is a good way to have a bloated payroll and a middling team.

Yes, that is all obvious stuff. The Pats will have to pay for FAs or we will never get over the hump. Every year the FA salaries get "more outrageous", then a couple of years later, the "outrageous" salaries look OK. We not only have the most cap space but also the most cap space in 2025 and 2026. Unless something changes, the Pats are one of the cheapest teams. Your argument that one of the cheapest teams is doing a great job not overpaying in FA, means you like be a cheap team. Cheap teams never win.

 

[Wozzy]

We have em on the menu hope he sucks on that day like say. I'm like an elephant that never forgets Wozzy.

Yet somehow you forgot Will Levis completes 58% of his passes and throws one interception for every 2 TD’s he throws.

If he works really hard and reaches his potential he might be as good as Brissett one day. Until that day Jacoby is a better player.

 

[PatsFan2]

Yet somehow you forgot Will Levis completes 58% of his passes and throws one interception for every 2 TD’s he throws.

If he works really hard and reaches his potential he might be as good as Brissett one day. Until that day Jacoby is a better player.

Well he should be playing catch with these Three guys alone D-Hop - Ridley and Boyd from the Slot.

 

[Wozzy]

Yes, that is all obvious stuff. The Pats will have to pay for FAs or we will never get over the hump. Every year the FA salaries get "more outrageous", then a couple of years later, the "outrageous" salaries look OK. We not only have the most cap space but also the most cap space in 2025 and 2026. Unless something changes, the Pats are one of the cheapest teams. Your argument that one of the cheapest teams is doing a great job not overpaying in FA, means you like be a cheap team. Cheap teams never win.

A team can’t be one of the highest spending teams in the NFL this offseason and be considered “cheap.” That’s not how logic works.

Also a team like the dynasty Patriots was fiscally responsible, which is why they didn’t suffer through multiple low digit win seasons over that time. They fielded a competitive team every season.

The Dynasty Patriots were not unique in that regard, teams like the Steelers, Packers and other small market teams were also successful long term because they didn’t spend money like drunken sailors only to endure losing seasons for stretches while they repaired their salary cap.

I prefer these smart money team building practices to perennial losers who burn cash only to have to start over again and again.

 

[captain stone]

Yep, old Jim’s been hitting the buffet table quite hard, obviously. I’m guessing that wasn’t what you were thinking there @captain stone

No beard but more fat... Yeah not a good look for ol' Jimmy...

I’ve been listening to MTC most weekdays and when they’re on Saturdays sometimes for 10+ years.

Same here; got our first Sirius/XM subscription as part of my 50th birthday in '09...

Kirwan is clearly butthurt over the Pats dumping BB. He has little good to say about the Pats other than their LB group, seems to deliberately mispronounce Barmore’s name and obviously is not a fan of Maye.

I missed most of yesterday's show except for the Brisket interview; didn't think they were gonna be in Foxborough that early... I did listen to last year's training camp tour stop there, and yeah the fawning over Bill that Kirwin & Miller did was a total waste of time, except for the very end of the broadcast when Kirwin FINALLY mentioned the lousy state of the offense (just not in Bill's presence of course).

So for me it’s not as fun of a listen these days but I’m the type that likes listening to and reading what the negative commenters say, it helps me think more critically than I would otherwise.

Most - if not the Vast majority - of player & coach interviews are publicity-driven fluff, even on Moving the Chains... Give me the critical eye of the local beat writers at all of these TC tour stops all the time!

 

[Wozzy]

Well he should be playing catch with these Three guys alone D-Hop - Ridley and Boyd from the Slot.

He’ll still suck. If he develops some, he has a Brissett type ceiling in his future.

I’ll take Brissett/Maye all day seven days a week.

Ridley went to the team stupid enough to overpay him… don’t be the stupid team, be a smart team.