How Many Games Do Wolf And Mayo Want To Win?

[Tunescribe]

"I don’t mind them losing a lot this season. This is a massive transition season. If they are playing hard but still end up with a top pick, that will be a good outcome, especially if Wolf’s 2024 draft class looks strong."

You cut off the rest off that paragraph. And you also ignored prior posts when I said they shouldn't tank and should compete to win every game.

Folks need to be realistic. Jacoby isn't taking this team into the playoffs. It's quite likely they will not win much, but I'm hoping for a competitive team. It's a realistic expectation, and if you become frustrated by others with more realistic expectations than you, well, look inward. Yes, I won't mind losing a lot, because that's the most probable outcome this year. I won't go into this season with delusional expectations. But there's still a lot to watch for and be excited about. I haven't been this juiced for a season in a long time.

I have never suggested that the team tank, or that they should try to lose for draft picks.

Look, you can rationalize, qualify, contextualize and equivocate all you want. Your first sentence torpedoes all of it. If this team "loses a lot" this season it will SUCK. I don't give a rat's ass about top draft picks. Losers play for top draft picks. Loser fans believe losing is just great if you get a top draft pick. So go ahead and be A-OK with losing, just don't expect me to toss you bouquets.

Btw, you and Triumph are two peas in a pod. You argue the same way: without honor.

First time anyone has compared me to that vacant hillbilly. I'll consider it an insult.

 

[Force Zero Boomer]

Look, you can rationalize, qualify, contextualize and equivocate all you want. Your first sentence torpedoes all of it. If this team "loses a lot" this season it will SUCK. I don't give a rat's ass about top draft picks. Losers play for top draft picks. Loser fans believe losing is just great if you get a top draft pick. So go ahead and be A-OK with losing, just don't expect me to toss you bouquets.

Argue with straw men on your own time. You continue to mischaracterize my argument. I never said they should play for draft picks. I said they should try to win every game. This is tantamount to lying about what I said, so I’m done with you.

First time anyone has compared me to that vacant hillbilly. I'll consider it an insult.

The shoe fits, so wear it.

 

[Tunescribe]

Argue with straw men on your own time. You continue to mischaracterize my argument. I never said they should play for draft picks. I said they should try to win every game. This is tantamount to lying about what I said, so I’m done with you.

The shoe fits, so wear it.

Are you made of straw? No lying or mischaracterization here. Just remember: YOU are the one who stated, "I don't mind them losing a lot this season." An outrageous statement however you choose to rationalize it.

 

[Thelonious]

The Rams spent seven years worth of first round picks and a slew of other draft picks and a mountain of cap space to win a single championship. There was a cost for doing business. In 2022 they were broke, they had a fire sale and traded away or cut all their expensive vets. Last year they drafted 14 players in a single class, this comes after trading back multiple times and collecting a lot of late round picks to add to their storehouse.

In short, they fixed their cap in 2022, they went from winning a championship to the worst record in NFL history for a Super Bowl winner the next season. They went from winning 12 games and a championship in 2021, winning 5 games in 2022, then last year rebuilt and went 10-7 in a weak conference and division. It took them one season to reset their cap and start over, we'll see if they can make another jump this season.

The Pats reset their cap back in 2020... this notion that they were horrible last year so it will takes years to fix is nonsense. Their offense last year was horrible, their defense and majority of the rest of their team was good. Their offense wasn't horrid because they had all bad players, they had a bad QB... their WR's and OL dealt with a lot of injuries, their coaches weren't all on the same page. Those players are healthy now, the coaches are all pulling in the same direction now.

They had all the cap space and draft picks in the world to play with this offseason. If you're not teaching your young players how to win... you're teaching them to lose. Play to win... you may not win, but you play to win games.

The players on the field will of course try to win. In choosing whom to put on the the field, however, a team like the Patriots, with virtually no chance of doing anything significant in the post-season, would be wise to take into account player evaluation and development as they pick the game-day roster. If it becomes incontrovertibly clear at some point that they have absolutely no shot at the post-season, it would be reasonable thento go a little further in this direction, giving even more weight to player development and evaluation, given that there is then NO upside to fielding the winningest group each game and given that there are very real benefits to losing games at that point vis-a-vis draft position. Paradoxically - perhaps - that is the winning strategy re this season.

It'd be nice if your optimism were justified, but it isn't. So it goes.

 

[Thelonious]

In other words, losing is just peachy until which time you "decide" it isn't and flip the switch. That line of thinking is fundamentally fatally flawed. The ONLY way you develop a winning team culture is by doing everything you possibly can to win NOW -- with a sense of urgency -- using the players you have. This notion of losing being acceptable as long as guys are being developed is B.S., all that does is beget more losing.

Well, I disagree. A team this bad needs to focus on player acquisition, evaluation, and development. All the rah-rah mindset stuff can come later. Nothing builds a "winning team culture" like winning games. Players, you may once have heard, win games.

 

[Tunescribe]

Well, I disagree. A team this bad needs to focus on player acquisition, evaluation, and development. All the rah-rah mindset stuff can come later. Nothing builds a "winning team culture" like winning games. Players, you may once have heard, win games.

"Rah-rah mindset stuff"? That couldn't be further from the truth. Serious question: did you ever play competitive team sports?

 

[UrbanCowboy]

The argument was that a top 5 pick wasn’t worth much to the Pats because we already have a QB. I said trade the pick. And I’m not going to discount future picks, because the draft is how a team gets built. If picks in 2025 are the two birds, what is your bird in the hand?


You’re projecting your own pessimism onto the rest of the fan base. I am excited: new era, new coach, new QB of the future. I hope they are competitive, in every game, but I won’t mind if they lose a bunch of close games, as long as they are playing hard and moving in the right direction.


I didn’t say they should tank. The coach and players should try to win every game, and the GM should construct and maintain the roster with the goal of sustained competitiveness in mind, not win NOW, future be damned.


You are arguing with a straw man. I’ve said repeatedly they should try and win every game. Go look at my comments.


They will compete. I’m not sure if Mayo will be a good coach, but he was a hard nosed competitor. Win? Maybe not so much. And, I don’t think anyone

Makes sense. Playing for the future doesn't mean tanking or trying to lose. It means things like playing a rookie and living with growing pains instead of plugging in an aging vet who might give you a better chance in that particular game. We know this isn't the year, but if we see progress and we're building toward something, we're happy.

 

[Wozzy]

The players on the field will of course try to win. In choosing whom to put on the the field, however, a team like the Patriots, with virtually no chance of doing anything significant in the post-season, would be wise to take into account player evaluation and development as they pick the game-day roster. If it becomes incontrovertibly clear at some point that they have absolutely no shot at the post-season, it would be reasonable thento go a little further in this direction, giving even more weight to player development and evaluation, given that there is then NO upside to fielding the winningest group each game and given that there are very real benefits to losing games at that point vis-a-vis draft position. Paradoxically - perhaps - that is the winning strategy re this season.

It'd be nice if your optimism were justified, but it isn't. So it goes.

No chance… like the Patriots when Drew Bledsoe went down in 2001. Or the Rams with an UDFA QB from the Arena League named Kurt Warner.

When you’re mathematically eliminated from the playoffs you concern yourself with player development, until that time you play to win. There’s no other way to build a winning culture.

 

[vicspats]

The players on the field will of course try to win. In choosing whom to put on the the field, however, a team like the Patriots, with virtually no chance of doing anything significant in the post-season, would be wise to take into account player evaluation and development as they pick the game-day roster. If it becomes incontrovertibly clear at some point that they have absolutely no shot at the post-season, it would be reasonable thento go a little further in this direction, giving even more weight to player development and evaluation, given that there is then NO upside to fielding the winningest group each game and given that there are very real benefits to losing games at that point vis-a-vis draft position. Paradoxically - perhaps - that is the winning strategy re this season.

It'd be nice if your optimism were justified, but it isn't. So it goes.

Yes that argument would hold water down the stretch. Maybe being out of contention with 4-6 games left? Then play back ups more for evaluation if starters haven’t been successful or nicked up. I see the problem with that being, it’s not like hockey where players are more interchangeable. Football is a more cohesive game where the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. No more important than the offensive line and the secondary I feel . It’s not the greatness of one player that makes a unit but the right combination of players makes a unit great. So searching at the end of the season for the right combinations would maybe show a weakness in coaching and that alone is a way to root out problems moving forward. Either way, you have an interesting point, hopefully we see a big turnaround this season and we won’t have to travel down this path of mediocrity for too long.

 

[Thelonious]

"Rah-rah mindset stuff"? That couldn't be further from the truth. Serious question: did you ever play competitive team sports?

Not serious enough to deserve a response. If it pleases you to imagine I am some sort of pencil neck Oz-like creature, that's fine. We all have recourse to fantasy from time to time when we feel insecure.

 

[Thelonious]

Yes that argument would hold water down the stretch. Maybe being out of contention with 4-6 games left? Then play back ups more for evaluation if starters haven’t been successful or nicked up. I see the problem with that being, it’s not like hockey where players are more interchangeable. Football is a more cohesive game where the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. No more important than the offensive line and the secondary I feel . It’s not the greatness of one player that makes a unit but the right combination of players makes a unit great. So searching at the end of the season for the right combinations would maybe show a weakness in coaching and that alone is a way to root out problems moving forward. Either way, you have an interesting point, hopefully we see a big turnaround this season and we won’t have to travel down this path of mediocrity for too long.

I agree with all of this. As you evaluate and build you evaluate and build not only individual players but combinations of players. That's an important point I left out.

 

[neuronet]

 

[pazrul72]

Want to win? All 20 obviously, cuz that would give them at least 5 years of job security. How many do they expect to win? Which is the question i think you meant to ask. I would expect somewhere between 6 and 9 wins there were so many injuries last year and so much behind the scenes disfunction. This defense is too good to lose every game on the schedule the way some are predicting. Honestly i dont even care about wins or losses THIS year, all i want to see is technically sound competitive football that has some promise of winning going forward.

 

[Tunescribe]

Not serious enough to deserve a response. If it pleases you to imagine I am some sort of pencil neck Oz-like creature, that's fine. We all have recourse to fantasy from time to time when we feel insecure.

That would not "please" me in the slightest, but we'll take it as a no. The rest of whatever you're driving at here is pretty vague.

 

[1960Pats]

Obviously, they want to win as many as they can. But realistically, they should be happy if they got 6-9 wins. On the other hand, if they don't win more than 4, then we're going to be asking whether the hiring of Mayo was a massive mistake.

Bill went 5-11 his first season here and his hiring turned out okay.

 

[1960Pats]

Who has suggested that for this season? Might be stretching what people say.

I saw one Tankhead mention it a while back but nothing else. Give it time though and they'll be coming out of the woodwork after a couple of losses.

 

[UrbanCowboy]

Want to win? All 20 obviously, cuz that would give them at least 5 years of job security. How many do they expect to win? Which is the question i think you meant to ask. I would expect somewhere between 6 and 9 wins there were so many injuries last year and so much behind the scenes disfunction. This defense is too good to lose every game on the schedule the way some are predicting. Honestly i dont even care about wins or losses THIS year, all i want to see is technically sound competitive football that has some promise of winning going forward.

the "expect" framing is perfect.

 

[1960Pats]

And that would be the stupidest thing they could do. Send Maye out to run for his life and get the **** kicked out of him. It’s a great idea if you want them to be picking a new QB in 27’.

He's the 3rd pick of the entire draft. He should be starting right away. If he isn't it will be a bad sign.

 

[1960Pats]

 

[Wozzy]

He's the 3rd pick of the entire draft. He should be starting right away. If he isn't it will be a bad sign.

Like Mahomes or Brady when they sat for a year?