Are we a quarterback away from being good?

[Calhoun44]

I am afraid that the first half of the Steeler's game was Zappe's version of Mac looking ok against Buffalo. I turned on the game in time to see the Zappe channel his inner Mac with an interception and a throw the ball straight into a DB's chest. The Pats were lucky to win that game.

I have to disagree with your "The Pats were lucky to win that game" argument? If that is the case than one could say that the Colts, Giants, Dolphins (first game), Chargers, Eagles, Commanders and Raiders were all lucky that our players, especially our QB's, made bad plays at inopportune times and throughout the games that gave them our opponents the win. Which by the way I disagree with, nothing comes easy in the NFL (and professional sports in general) and a win is a win, enjoy the fcuk out of each and every one.

 

[Stu Pidassle]

I have to disagree with your "The Pats were lucky to win that game" argument? If that is the case than one could say that the Colts, Giants, Dolphins (first game), Chargers, Eagles, Commanders and Raiders were all lucky that our players, especially our QB's, made bad plays at inopportune times and throughout the games that gave them our opponents the win. Which by the way I disagree with, nothing comes easy in the NFL (and professional sports in general) and a win is a win, enjoy the fcuk out of each and every one

For the record, I watch the Pats hoping that they are going to win every game. I only got to watch the fourth quarter last week. During that time I watched the QB turn the ball over to allow the Steeler's to close to one score. Next drive the QB tried to throw another interception. After that every drive was a three and out, giving the other team multiple chances to win the game. In the context of being hopeful next year, neither Zappe or unlucky losses earlier in the year are things to hang your hat on. The team needs to find a reliable QB to begin turning things aroud.

 

[JohnJH]

Question. How many rebuilding years are we going to endure? I'm of the mind I don't care at this point who the QB is or will be I just want to see good QB play, conducive to winning football. It's no longer about Mac he is not long for this team. His story is Over and done with.

Be it Zapp, a rookie, a vet.. someone . I just want winning football back in NE

Absolute best case scenario (with the right HC, Coordinators, Assistant Coaches, GM, Scouting Department, Roster Talent, and Player Health): Three to four years to field a true SB Contender. Basically, a lot of "If's". But that holds true for any team trying to rebuild to such a status.

 

[JohnJH]

Agreed. I believe we need both. The cupboard is bare. We need the QB and the players around the QB.. not just 1 guy but at least 3 difference makers at the skill positions.

2 WRs on the outside
3rd down back

And a solid O Line (and not just starters, but solid backups that could step-in for a game or two if needed). That alone is not easy to come by, but been known to happen.

 

[palialka]

We’re more than just a good QB away. Besides a new QB, we need..

- A new LT, LG and C (tired of those guys getting steamrolled in pp…I like Onwenu at RT and Sow can continue to develop at RG)

- 3 new WRs (keep Bourne, Douglas and maybe Boutte…the rest can pound sand)

- a 3rd down back in the mold of Faulk or White

With good personnel decision making, this will probably take a couple of years.

 

[Real fan 02]

And a solid O Line (and not just starters, but solid backups that could step-in for a game or two if needed). That alone is not easy to come by, but been known to happen.

Absolutely! We've always had solid O line during the championship years. I think the young guys we have now will pan out strange and Mafi.. but we need a solid LT.. Trent Brown era is done.

 

[Real fan 02]

We’re more than just a good QB away. Besides a new QB, we need..

- A new LT, LG and C (tired of those guys getting steamrolled in pp…I like Onwenu at RT and Sow can continue to develop at RG)

- 3 new WRs (keep Bourne, Douglas and maybe Boutte…the rest can pound sand)

- a 3rd down back in the mold of Faulk or White

With good personnel decision making, this will probably take a couple of years.

What became so egregious to me is did Bill intentionally say we don't need a 3rd down back and slot WR? It almost feels like the way the roster was set up.

 

[Love The Drake]

We’re more than just a good QB away. Besides a new QB, we need..

- A new LT, LG and C (tired of those guys getting steamrolled in pp…I like Onwenu at RT and Sow can continue to develop at RG)

- 3 new WRs (keep Bourne, Douglas and maybe Boutte…the rest can pound sand)

- a 3rd down back in the mold of Faulk or White

With good personnel decision making, this will probably take a couple of years.

Agree 100 percent.

I think you go youth movement next season.
You trade any vet over 28.

 

[Wozzy]

Question. How many rebuilding years are we going to endure? I'm of the mind I don't care at this point who the QB is or will be I just want to see good QB play, conducive to winning football. It's no longer about Mac he is not long for this team. His story is Over and done with.

Be it Zapp, a rookie, a vet.. someone . I just want winning football back in NE

The Eagles waited 48 years to win a championship. You've waited five.

 

[Wozzy]

I didn't say that the Pats couldn't win with those other QBs. Of course they could have because those QBs are also good to great. Which has been my point all along and not just about Brady. All coaches need good to great players to win and when they don't have them they don't win.

The difference in the case of Bill is that his years without the top QB have been very poor, 4 of 5 losing seasons poor to be exact, both here and in Cleveland. All the other top coaches didn't come near that when they didn't have top QBs.

As for the stronger defenses during Brady's time here maybe that's because it's what Bill is best at and he spent more draft capital on defense. Some of the conspiracy theorists have Bill doing that to help his kids along on defense but I don't see it that way. He simply knows defense better. And if he's been spending on offense lately he's not getting his money's worth.

Every great coach in history looks poor with a bad QB and with bad players.

Bill needs to find a QB, the rest of the team being bad is so overblown it's not funny. Mac made everyone on offense look bad.

 

[Wozzy]

We saw much better play for one half. And it was against a team that was dominated by the Cardinals the week before.

And people are overrating that first half. One drive was 11 yards. Two of the best plays were plays that should have been broken up by the Steelers or even intercepted. I talked about the Henry play. But you also had the Juju Smith-Schuster catch where he had to catch it through a defender and was well covered in double coverage.

Hopefully, the offense has turned a corner. But we have seen really bad offenses have specular single games. Look at the Bears against the Patriots. Their offense truly sucked last and they still scored 33 points against the Patriots.

You cannot take anything away from one half of football. If this becomes a trend, then we can talk. But until it happens, we have to assume the other three halves where Zappe started where the Pats didn't score a single point is closer to where this offense is.

We'll find out.

I don't deal in absolutes.

 

[IcyPatriot]

Agree 100 percent.

I think you go youth movement next season.
You trade any vet over 28.

It's sad I have Judon .... Wise ... Henry and Andrews as keepers over age 28 ... that's real thin for leadership.
But we're not geting even a bag of balls for all the others 28+
Cardona is +28 but does a long snapper count?

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[Wozzy]

What became so egregious to me is did Bill intentionally say we don't need a 3rd down back and slot WR? It almost feels like the way the roster was set up.

Because he had two guys in Rhamondre and Zeke that are every down backs.

Demario Douglas is a slot receiver, Juju can play in the slot, so could Bourne when healthy.

Mac sucks, it's like having the cool toys without the batteries on Christmas morning.

 

[RIpats88]

Because he had two guys in Rhamondre and Zeke that are every down backs.

Demario Douglas is a slot receiver, Juju can play in the slot, so could Bourne when healthy.

Mac sucks, it's like having the cool toys without the batteries on Christmas morning.

You honestly have the worst takes. So now, Bill knows Mac sucks which is why he avoided getting a 3rd down back or adding an elite WR! smart!

No one builds or should build a team that way. "well my QB sucks so i'm going to ignore adding talent on offense, i'll wait until I get a good one so the team they come to is devoid of any talent"

 

[RIpats88]

Do fans realistically feel we have a solid core of young drafted players like we had with edelman/gronk/hightower/mccourty who will anchor the future patriots?

I guess I just don't see how fans who watched those teams can look at us trotting out juju/parker and somehow try to sell to me that the talent level is comparable. Do we have any pro-bowl caliber players on offense?

 

[Rob0729]

We'll find out.

I don't deal in absolutes.

Garner Minshew just had the best game of his career last night against the Steelers. Last week may have been more about the Steelers than the Patriots’ offense.

 

[Rob0729]

Do fans realistically feel we have a solid core of young drafted players like we had with edelman/gronk/hightower/mccourty who will anchor the future patriots?

I guess I just don't see how fans who watched those teams can look at us trotting out juju/parker and somehow try to sell to me that the talent level is comparable. Do we have any pro-bowl caliber players on offense?

Douglas could become as good as Welker or Edelman. He is better in his rookie season than either of those guys were. But there is no guarantee of that.

Gonzalez has the potential to be an elite CB. If he wasn’t injured and continued to play like he was, he would be in contention for DROY.

Barmore is finally playing to his potential.

For the most part, those are the only young players the Pats worthy of building around. I am not counting guys like Dugger or Owenu since they could very well be gone after this season.

There are some guys who are in their prime that are good players, but no standout stars.

 

[RIpats88]

Douglas could become as good as Welker or Edelman. He is better in his rookie season than either of those guys were. But there is no guarantee of that.

Gonzalez has the potential to be an elite CB. If he wasn’t injured and continued to play like he was, he would be in contention for DROY.

Barmore is finally playing to his potential.

For the most part, those are the only young players the Pats worthy of building around. I am not counting guys like Dugger or Owenu since they could very well be gone after this season.

There are some guys who are in their prime that are good players, but no standout stars.

either way, 4 years after our "reset year" we should have more than 3 players you can see potential in. i'd add in stevenson. but he is 100% gone when his contract is up as well.

and none have been pro-bowl players yet. the failure in the draft is really why we are here. winning teams are not built through free agency. and Bill hasn't been able to identify good players in the draft for awhile. and when he does we only have them for their rookie deal anyway because he refuses to pay.

 

[sb1]

Garner Minshew just had the best game of his career last night against the Steelers. Last week may have been more about the Steelers than the Patriots’ offense.

Today will tell us a lot. The Chiefs defense is quite a bit better than Pitt’s.

 

[sb1]

Every great coach in history looks poor with a bad QB and with bad players.

Bill needs to find a QB, the rest of the team being bad is so overblown it's not funny. Mac made everyone on offense look bad.

No it’s not overblown.