Tom Curran: Sources made 'clear to me' decision to move on from Belichick made after Germany game

[Wozzy]

Every single stat I listed was on PFR.

2023 NFL Opposition & Defensive Statistics | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Check out the 2023 NFL Opposition & Defensive Statistics including AFC and NFC results and standings on Pro-football-reference.com

www.pro-football-reference.com

I also listed both stats you asked for earlier.

ESPN also has similar rankings on their site, but I think it's about a week off cause there is slight variance.

And yeah I know football more than you. You and me argued all summer over whether this team was going to be good or not. One of us clearly was proven right considering this is a 3 win team in December.

Give me the points and yards rankings, I already said I was looking at PFR.

I want your interpretation of the stats.

 

[lancerman]

Patriots Current Defensive Rankings:
8th in yards per game allowed
Tied for 14th in points per game (20.9)
15th in passing yards per game
3rd in rushing yards per game

That's incredibly solid for a unit that's been left hanging in the wind in a lot of games this year. Save for the lack of turnovers, they've done a good job. And a high percentage of turnovers typically come thanks to a good pass rush where a QB is forced into a bad throw. With Judon out, that's been an issue.

It's OK to say there is one thing they've been successful with, especially despite being without their two best players. I get people are frustrated with the overall situation, but the defense has been the one area that has been a positive in a season with not very many other bright spots. It doesn't have to all be terrible just to fit the overall narrative.

At the end of the day, the biggest issue is the personnel gaffes on offense, which I think most people here agree on. I mean, seven of their 10 losses have been by seven points or less. They've been shutout twice. They haven't had the horses to alter the scoreboard, and their QB fell apart.

And I recall people speaking highly of Indianapolis' offense and praising the defense for holding that group to 10 points, until it suddenly became no longer fashionable to do so.

But yes, Bill can still coach X's and O's and it's OK to acknowledge that (this weekend could end up being another example if history is any indication). However, it's his overall body of work for this season that, if what we believe is about to happen comes to fruition, will be the reason and the team he put together and how it played out will likely be what the Krafts judge him for.

Ian just on an absolutely serious note. Would you consider that "one of the best defenses in the league". Because I see one stat that where they are actually top 5.

They are also one of the worst in the league at turnovers.

I'm not saying this is a bad defense. I'm saying it's a lot closer to mid tier than best in the league and it's ridiculous to argue that they have some powerhouse dominant defense and that we are only a piece or two on offense from turning this whole thing around.

 

[lancerman]

"The Patriots do not have one of the best defenses in the league by any metric."

This ^ is all you provided or said.

Tell us the Patriot D's current ranking in points and yards allowed?

Afraid?

It's literally on the last page and Ian just posted 4 of the same stats I listed with the exact same rankings.

You are now resorting to asking me if I am afraid to do something I already did.

 

[Wozzy]

Patriots Current Defensive Rankings:
8th in yards per game allowed
Tied for 14th in points per game (20.9)
15th in passing yards per game
3rd in rushing yards per game

That's incredibly solid for a unit that's been left hanging in the wind in a lot of games this year. Save for the lack of turnovers, they've done a good job. And a high percentage of turnovers typically come thanks to a good pass rush where a QB is forced into a bad throw. With Judon out, that's been an issue.

It's OK to say there is one thing they've been successful with, especially despite being without their two best players. I get people are frustrated with the overall situation, but the defense has been the one area that has been a positive in a season with not very many other bright spots. It doesn't have to all be terrible just to fit the overall narrative.

At the end of the day, the biggest issue is the personnel gaffes on offense, which I think most people here agree on. I mean, seven of their 10 losses have been by seven points or less. They've been shutout twice. They haven't had the horses to alter the scoreboard, and their QB fell apart.

And I recall people speaking highly of Indianapolis' offense and praising the defense for holding that group to 10 points, until it suddenly became no longer fashionable to do so.

But yes, Bill can still coach X's and O's and it's OK to acknowledge that (this weekend could end up being another example if history is any indication). However, it's his overall body of work for this season that, if what we believe is about to happen comes to fruition, will be the reason and the team he put together and how it played out will likely be what the Krafts judge him for.

Sorry Ian, but this is wrong. At least the points and yards allowed if we're strictly talking about defense.

 

[VrabelJr]

Ian just on an absolutely serious note. Would you consider that "one of the best defenses in the league". Because I see one stat that where they are actually top 5.

They are also one of the worst in the league at turnovers.

I'm not saying this is a bad defense. I'm saying it's a lot closer to mid tier than best in the league and it's ridiculous to argue that they have some powerhouse dominant defense and that we are only a piece or two on offense from turning this whole thing around.

Best defense doesn’t mean you’re top 5 in multiple or even a single metric, and we’re #1 in rushing DVOA for what it’s worth. Statistics, yo!

 

[lancerman]

Sorry Ian, but this is wrong. At least the points and yards allowed if we're strictly talking about defense.

No he's right. Pretty much every source is backing that up. I literally gave you a link to the site that you yourself referenced that has those exact numbers. ESPN also has pretty much the same numbers as well. Multiple of the top stat compilation sources are in agreement on this.

Maybe you need to learn how to read stats.

 

[lancerman]

Best defense doesn’t mean you’re top 5 in multiple or even a single metric, and we’re #1 in rushing DVOA for what it’s worth. Statistics, yo!

I would never say we haven't been a good rushing defense. But imo you simply can't call a defense that is middle of the pack in points and bottom of the league in turnovers "one of the best defenses in the league". That's silly.

 

[Ian]

Ian just on an absolutely serious note. Would you consider that "one of the best defenses in the league". Because I see one stat that where they are actually top 5.

They are also one of the worst in the league at turnovers.

I'm not saying this is a bad defense. I'm saying it's a lot closer to mid tier than best in the league and it's ridiculous to argue that they have some powerhouse dominant defense and that we are only a piece or two on offense from turning this whole thing around.

They're not barnburners, but the overall group is in the upper tier and has gotten it done to the point where even an average offense would field a team that would be far better than 3-10. Again, by Monday, I'm guessing we'll be talking about how they played and held Mahomes in company in check to the point they either won, or had a shot at winning.

If Belichick is fired, it's going to be for all of the reasons that have been discussed on the other side of the ball. The team building has been a serious problem, and obviously, everything caught up to them this year. It can't be ignored, and it's up to Kraft to decide whether or not it will be forgiven and he'll be granted another year. From the sounds of it, it doesn't appear that's going to be the case.

 

[IcyPatriot]

Patriots are 29th in the league TOP at 28.08 ...
That needs to be factored in when discussing defense stats IMO.

 

[lancerman]

They're not barnburners, but the overall group is in the upper tier and has gotten it done to the point where even an average offense would field a team that would be far better than 3-10. Again, by Monday, I'm guessing we'll be talking about how they played and held Mahomes in company in check to the point they either won, or had a shot at winning.

If Belichick is fired, it's going to be for all of the reasons that have been discussed on the other side of the ball. The team building has been a serious problem, and obviously, everything caught up to them this year. It can't be ignored, and it's up to Kraft to decide whether or not it will be forgiven and he'll be granted another year. From the sounds of it, it doesn't appear that's going to be the case.

I agree 100% with what you said. And yeah I think they will have a decent game against Mahomes and the offense will ultimately let us down. But to argue that we need to hang our hats on a supposedly best in league defense, just isn't it to me. They are the best unit on the team and perform respectable if unspectacular. Clearly not amongst the top tier in the league.

On the Belichick stuff, yeah, it's going to be a culmination on if Kraft thinks field drafts and team building along with 4 years of underachieving and this years collapse is something he wants to overlook and give him another chance based on reputation

 

[Wozzy]

It's literally on the last page and Ian just posted 4 of the same stats I listed with the exact same rankings.

You are now resorting to asking me if I am afraid to do something I already did.

Yeah... they're wrong.

Here's where I teach you something.



Here ^ are the Patriots team stats. 14th in points allowed represents points allowed by the entire team. Mac Jones leads the entire NFL in pick sixes, he's fumbled a couple times for scoop and scores as well.

Now look at the bottom right stats, I've highlighted them in yellow. That represents the Patriot's defensive rankings in points and yards allowed per drive. It doesn't include Mac Jones blunders, it doesn't include special teams returns for a TD by the other team, it doesn't include fumbles or field goals blocked and returned for TD's.

It isolates the defense and the defense alone and how many points and yards they allowed in a vacuum.

The Patriots have a top defense in the NFL, top five to be exact. This is especially impressive considering they have been carrying the 30th worst offense in points allowed and 28th worst in yards allowed.

Laughable... you just got schooled by a local bumpkin... you ****ing idiot.

 

[Ian]

Sorry Ian, but this is wrong. At least the points and yards allowed if we're strictly talking about defense.

No, it's accurate. That's from the league's database.

Again, it's OK to say they've played well, and everything isn't 100% terrible. The game plans on that side of the ball are solid, but the lack of offensive execution has submarined this team this year, and that's due to the reasons that have been covered.

 

[Wozzy]

No, it's accurate. That's from the league's database.

Again, it's OK to say they've played well, and everything isn't 100% terrible. The game plans on that side of the ball are solid, but the lack of offensive execution has submarined this team this year, and that's due to the reasons that have been covered.

Read the post above, it's wrong.

 

[Ian]

I agree 100% with what you said. And yeah I think they will have a decent game against Mahomes and the offense will ultimately let us down. But to argue that we need to hang our hats on a supposedly best in league defense, just isn't it to me. They are the best unit on the team and perform respectable if unspectacular. Clearly not amongst the top tier in the league.

On the Belichick stuff, yeah, it's going to be a culmination on if Kraft thinks field drafts and team building along with 4 years of underachieving and this years collapse is something he wants to overlook and give him another chance based on reputation

No one said they're the best defense in the league, but yes, they're among the best. And the context of never playing from ahead and not being able to pressure the quarterback is absolutely affecting their ability to force turnovers.

This offense has been historically bad. To the point they've already hit records not hit - in some cases - nearly 100 years. That's absolutely been a factor.

 

[lancerman]

Yeah... they're wrong.

Here's where I teach you something.



Here ^ are the Patriots team stats. 14th in points allowed represents point allowed by the entire team. Mac Jones leads the entire NFL in pick sixes, he's fumbled a couple times for scoop and scores as well.

Now look at the bottom right stats, I've highlighted them in yellow. That represents the Patriot's defensive rankings in points and yards allowed per drive. It doesn't include Mac Jones blunders, it doesn't include special teams returns for a TD by the other team, it doesn't include fumbles or field goals blocked and returned for TD's.

It isolates the defense and the defense alone and how much points and yards they allowed in a vacuum.

The Patriots have a top defense in the NFL, top five to be exact. This is especially impressive considering they have been carrying the 30th worst offense in points allowed and 28th worst in yards allowed.

Laughable... you just got schooled by a local bumpkin... you ****ing idiot.

Hard to get schooled when you literally are misreading a stat lol.

Btw the same source has the Patriots DEFENSE ranked 9th in the league in percentage of drives ending in an offensive score.

So lol multiple people came at you with the same source you used and you just can't read stats. Guess we know who got schooled.

Honestly if you want a stat that isolates defense as much as possible it's DVOA. But you are a dumbass who hates data and constantly *****es about any advanced analytics.

 

[lancerman]

No one said they're the best defense in the league, but yes, they're among the best. And the context of never playing from ahead and not being able to pressure the quarterback is absolutely affecting their ability to force turnovers.

This offense has been historically bad. To the point they've already hit records not hit - in some cases - nearly 100 years. That's absolutely been a factor.

I agree that there is a lot more context to football than just pure blanket stats and the defense is decent comparatively to offense and special teams. Depends on what you mean by amongst the best. Very few stats they get close to top 5 in besides rushing yards. But yeah I'm not out hear trying to prove this is an awful defense. Just not one of the top ones in the league

 

[Wozzy]

Hard to get schooled when you literally are misreading a stat lol.

Btw the same source has the Patriots DEFENSE ranked 9th in the league in percentage of drives ending in an offensive score.

So lol multiple people came at you with the same source you used and you just can't read stats. Guess we know who got schooled.

Honestly if you want a stat that isolates defense as much as possible it's DVOA. But you are a dumbass who hates data and constantly *****es about any advanced analytics.

I took a screenshot of PFR right now and posted it above. It's right there.

You don't know how to read stats at all, and here I thought you were football smart.

If Mac Jones throws a pick 6, those aren't points allowed by our defense genius.

 

[lancerman]

Read the post above, it's wrong.

This might be the most hilarious self own you ever made.

 

[lancerman]

I took a screenshot of PFR right now and posted it above.

You don't know how to read stats at all, and here I thought you were football smart.

If Mac Jones throws a pick 6, those aren't points allowed by our defense genius.

I literally linked PFR and where all the stats I used are and they have us ranked 9th in terms of percentage of drives to end in an offensive score against our defense. Your own source.

You screen shotting something means nothing when we are using the same source and I'm giving you the links and other people are coming up with the same stats lol

 

[Wozzy]

This might be the most hilarious self own you ever made.

You can't read stats and don't even realize you look foolish. Read what I wrote, tell me where I'm wrong.