Tom Curran: Sources made 'clear to me' decision to move on from Belichick made after Germany game

[lancerman]

They actually have one of the best defenses by quite a few metrics despite having an offense that is awful almost historically and a pretty bad special teams. There’s 31 other teams if you don’t like this one

No they don't.

EPA they are ranked 12th.
PPG they are ranked 15th
Points allowed total they are ranked 14th
Yards they are ranked 8th
Passing yards they are ranked 18th
Rushing yards they are ranked 3rd
Turnovers they are 29th.
Percentage of drives ending in an offensive score they are ranked 9th.
Expected points contributed by all defense they are ranked 11th.

Whether you go by traditional or advanced metrics, the defense is nowhere near one of the best in the league. They have one meaningful stat where they are even ranked top 5 and that's rushing yards.

Also some of you need to stop being homers and realize that if you enjoy your team it's okay to be critical of it when they are bad to try to see where they can get better. This is far from one of the better Patriots defenses and nowhere near the top of the league

Also the special teams right now ranks worse than the offense.

 

[VrabelJr]

No they don't.

EPA they are ranked 12th.
PPG they are ranked 15th
Points allowed total they are ranked 14th
Yards they are ranked 8th
Passing yards they are ranked 18th
Rushing yards they are ranked 3rd
Turnovers they are 29th.
Percentage of drives ending in an offensive score they are ranked 9th.
Expected points contributed by all defense they are ranked 11th.

Whether you go by traditional or advanced metrics, the defense is nowhere near one of the best in the league. They have one meaningful stat where they are even ranked top 5 and that's rushing yards.

Also some of you need to stop being homers and realize that if you enjoy your team it's okay to be critical of it when they are bad to try to see where they can get better. This is far from one of the better Patriots defenses and nowhere near the top of the league

Also the special teams right now ranks worse than the offense.

I guess you don't know how averages work. Turnovers is the lone criticism you can have of this defense.

 

[Vindicate]

The tit-for-tat, flurry of punches Tazmanian Devil dust cloud in this thread is both ridiculous and respectably enduring lmao.

 

[VrabelJr]

How is that saying it's Bill's fault or anything at all related to Bill? It has nothing to do with the Patriots. Are you that insecure?

Yes my security depends on if people on this website understand BB is a good coach

 

[Wozzy]

Hmmm, I wonder who’s defense Foles lit up

Yeah, all it took was the best defenders on the entire team getting hurt before and during the playoffs.

The 2016 defense saved Tom’s rear against the Texans in the playoffs which won them all another ring. It’s a team game.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Manning didn’t win a ring until a decade into hIs NFL career, denied largely because of Belichick defenses.

Close, but it was his 9th year in the league. Bill only denied him twice (2003 and 2004). Then Manning beat them in 2006 and then again in 2013 and 2015. So they've both denied each other titles with Manning getting the upper hand at 3-2.

He won his second ring when he was playing nearly crippled, he had to borrow some steroids from his wife and after he lost his starting job to Brock Osweiler… laughable.

The fact that Bill couldn't put a good enough game plan together allowing 2 early TD's and 20 points total was pretty bad on his part. He played way to soft early in the game allowing those TD's passes. Once Bill woke up and got aggressive, Manning was dead to rights scoring 6 points the rest of the way. That offense should've have score more than 10 points. It's too bad, as that Pats 2015 team was among their best.

And frankly, that 03 team wouldn't have won a title.

The Colts? I think they would've beaten Carolina.

The Chargers and Steelers actually did more damage to the Colts in terms of winning a ring.

Chargers are the same as Pats beating him twice. Steelers once. Jets and Dolphins both beat him once.

 

[Wozzy]

The Patriots do not have one of the best defenses in the league by any metric.

If you call overpaying for Jonnu Smith a great move in free agency okay.

Must be tough spending all last year haranguing everyone about how this is really a great team that was going to take a step forward and then sitting on 3 wins and trying to save face. Lot's of heavy mental gymnastics from you since.

Wozzy I would like to see you attempt to leave your basement jerking it to Bill for one day and try to ref a Pop Warner game. I bet you couldn't get through the first quarter without mucking it up.

At this exact moment the Patriots D ranks 5th in points allowed and 4th in yards allowed,.. this despite carrying one of the worst starting QB’s in the NFL behind them.

I thought you understood football because you refereed some pop warner games… pathetic, I expected more.

 

[Wozzy]

Close, but it was his 9th year in the league. Bill only denied him twice (2003 and 2004). Then Manning beat them in 2006 and then again in 2013 and 2015. So they've both denied each other titles with Manning getting the upper hand at 3-2.

The fact that Bill couldn't put a good enough game plan together allowing 2 early TD's and 20 points total was pretty bad on his part. He played way to soft early in the game allowing those TD's passes. Once Bill woke up and got aggressive, Manning was dead to rights scoring 6 points the rest of the way. That offense should've have score more than 10 points. It's too bad, as that Pats 2015 team was among their best.

The Colts? I think they would've beaten Carolina.

Chargers are the same as Pats beating him twice. Steelers once. Jets and Dolphins both beat him once.

Wait… if Manning had magic powers to win why did he wait almost a decade to win a championship. Also how did he win another when he was a shell of himself and after losing the starting job to Brock Osweiler.

The problem with you “QB’s are magic” guys is your logic is all over the map and can’t stand up under the scrutiny of historical facts.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Wait… if Manning had magic powers to win why did he wait almost a decade to win a championship. Also how did he win another when he was a shell of himself and after losing the starting job to Brock Osweiler.

The problem with you “QB’s are magic” guys is your logic is all over the map and can’t stand up under the scrutiny of historical facts.

Stay on topic Wozzy.

 

[SVN]

The other question here is this - if the pats have decided to let BB go and leaked it to curran, does that mean BB knows it since last 3 weeks and just playing out the string ? or he is hearing it first from the media/curran ?

 

[VrabelJr]

Close, but it was his 9th year in the league. Bill only denied him twice (2003 and 2004). Then Manning beat them in 2006 and then again in 2013 and 2015. So they've both denied each other titles with Manning getting the upper hand at 3-2.

The fact that Bill couldn't put a good enough game plan together allowing 2 early TD's and 20 points total was pretty bad on his part. He played way to soft early in the game allowing those TD's passes. Once Bill woke up and got aggressive, Manning was dead to rights scoring 6 points the rest of the way. That offense should've have score more than 10 points. It's too bad, as that Pats 2015 team was among their best.

The Colts? I think they would've beaten Carolina.

Chargers are the same as Pats beating him twice. Steelers once. Jets and Dolphins both beat him once.

I was at that game. We were missing over 6 starters and 3 pro bowlers on the road in Denver. We were stacked in 2015 until the injuries piled up and Denver barely beat us at home. You’re on the wrong forum pal.

 

[Wozzy]

Where Wozzy is currently at with the Pats

They need a QB, nobody can win without one…. that’s not fine.

But I get it, nuanced football discussion is harder to follow than “BB bad” durrr.

 

[VrabelJr]

The other question here is this - if the pats have decided to let BB go and leaked it to curran, does that mean BB knows it since last 3 weeks and just playing out the string ? or he is hearing it first from the media/curran ?

This circus could all be a lie or it’s the truth but BB is a pro’s pro and won’t mail it in.

 

[lancerman]

At this exact moment the Patriots D ranks 5th in points allowed and 4th in yards allowed,.. this despite carrying one of the worst starting QB’s in the NFL behind them.

I thought you understood football because you refereed some pop warner games… pathetic, I expected more.

Both your stats are wrong. Also don't get offended that you tried to flex your "I'm a smarter more knowledgeable fan and you are probably some kid muscle" when someone gets back to you with something demonstrable.

Must be tough being some yokel townie who has to convince his fragile ego that he is smarter than everyone else so he can feel better about his life by convincing himself a bad football team is secretly good lol.

Also I didn't expect more from you

 

[Wozzy]

Bucs probably make the playoffs again this season. A year "after" the GOAT leaves with $79M+ in dead money. They're at #10 in effective cap space next season.

That's why Wuzzy's excuse for the 2020 season is laughable. Licht is 10x a better GM than Belichick, the main reason Bill has to go,

You’re talking about the guy who drafted Jameis Winston with the first overall pick?

Yeah, that was pure genius. That’s why Licht needed the QB Bill drafted and trained how to win.

 

[SVN]

This circus could all be a lie or it’s the truth but BB is a pro’s pro and won’t mail it in.

He wont mail it in but I assume the dignified thing the ownership thing would do is let him know before leaking it to curran.

 

[Wozzy]

Both your stats are wrong. Also don't get offended that you tried to flex your "I'm a smarter more knowledgeable fan and you are probably some kid muscle" when someone gets back to you with something demonstrable.

Must be tough being some yokel townie who has to convince his fragile ego that he is smarter than everyone else so he can feel better about his life by convincing himself a bad football team is secretly good lol.

Also I didn't expect more from you

I'm looking at both of stats on Pro football Reference right now, and they're exactly right.

I thought you understood football, seems you're like most refs and get it wrong more than right.

Just for laughs, tell me where the Patriots D rank in points and yards allowed?

 

[lancerman]

The other question here is this - if the pats have decided to let BB go and leaked it to curran, does that mean BB knows it since last 3 weeks and just playing out the string ? or he is hearing it first from the media/curran ?

Bill would likely know. This **** doesn't happen in a vacuum. Other people would know to. This assumes Curren is correct of course.

This is sort of "my dad works at Nintendo" ancedote. But the owner of my dad's business is really close business partner with Stephen Ross. Close enough that his sons were in the office on a social trip about a week before they fired Flores and he let him know like a day or two before it broke that Flores was getting ****canned. So if a whole random office in Boston can know about an NFL HC getting fired and is gossping about it before the story breaks, I would have to assume people in the building are already likely aware even if they are walking on eggshells. Bill also isn't stupid. He won't be blindsided no matter what the decision is.

 

[lancerman]

I'm looking at both of stats on Pro football Reference right now, and they're exactly right.

I thought you understood football, seems you're like most refs and get it wrong more than right.

Just for laughs, tell me where the Patriots D rank in points and yards allowed?

Every single stat I listed was on PFR.

2023 NFL Opposition & Defensive Statistics | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Check out the 2023 NFL Opposition & Defensive Statistics including AFC and NFC results and standings on Pro-football-reference.com

www.pro-football-reference.com

I also listed both stats you asked for earlier.

ESPN also has similar rankings on their site, but I think it's about a week off cause there is slight variance.

And yeah I know football more than you. You and me argued all summer over whether this team was going to be good or not. One of us clearly was proven right considering this is a 3 win team in December.

 

[Ian]

Patriots Current Defensive Rankings:
8th in yards per game allowed
Tied for 14th in points per game (20.9)
15th in passing yards per game
3rd in rushing yards per game

That's incredibly solid for a unit that's been left hanging in the wind in a lot of games this year. Save for the lack of turnovers, they've done a good job. And a high percentage of turnovers typically come thanks to a good pass rush where a QB is forced into a bad throw. With Judon out, that's been an issue.

It's OK to say there is one thing they've been successful with, especially despite being without their two best players. I get people are frustrated with the overall situation, but the defense has been the one area that has been a positive in a season with not very many other bright spots. It doesn't have to all be terrible just to fit the overall narrative.

At the end of the day, the biggest issue is the personnel gaffes on offense, which I think most people here agree on. I mean, seven of their 10 losses have been by seven points or less. They've been shutout twice. They haven't had the horses to alter the scoreboard, and their QB fell apart.

And I recall people speaking highly of Indianapolis' offense and praising the defense for holding that group to 10 points, until it suddenly became no longer fashionable to do so.

But yes, Bill can still coach X's and O's and it's OK to acknowledge that (this weekend could end up being another example if history is any indication). However, it's his overall body of work for this season that, if what we believe is about to happen comes to fruition, will be the reason and the team he put together and how it played out will likely be what the Krafts judge him for.