PostGame Thread Official Post-Game Thread: Patriots Lose to Commanders 20-17

[sb1]

IIRC Tom Coughlin's final few weeks with the Giants sounded a lot like what we're hearing now with the Pats. Same questions were asked about him. Coughlin was also 70.

 

[Rob0729]

Which of these 2 options would you rather have:

Caleb Williams with our current group of wide receivers or...

Mac with our current wide receivers PLUS Marvin Harrison Jr.

I know both may be pipe dreams, but they are really close in draft position.

Unless Caleb Williams falls after all the bad press he has been getting lately continues and it starts to snowball to knock him from the #1 position, the Pats will unlikely get him.

But Harrison is a possibility. Odds are good that as we get closer to draft day, all the QBs will rise up the draft. It has happened every year in recent years. Two years ago, Mac, Fields, and Lance were considered either late first round picks or second round picks and as it got closer and closer to draft day, they all rose to be mid to high first rounds. If that happens, Maye and maybe one or two other QBs could potentially jump ahead of Harrison.

 

[VrabelJr]

Cincinnati is the only team to draft a WR in the top 5 and not be an absolute mess because of it, but they also drafted high for several years. Short of a generational talent at LB, S, or TE you always go OT and DL if not QB.

 

[Ross12]

You think this all stems with Mac. I don't think so. I think there are a lot of guys here who don't buy into Belichick. Benching Jack Jones and JC Jackson probably didn't sit well with a lot of players especially since Belichick is making a point at the expense of the team. And Belichick is a hard ass coach and that only works if you are winning. And I bet there a lot of guys who are on Team Mac and believe Belichick did him dirty.

And what if the change at QB is exponentially worse?

Definitely don't think it all stems from Mac - guys like Jack and JC are a different situation - but I think some of it must.

Hard to say what would happen if the QB change was exponentially worse, but I have a hard time seeing that be the case. Somewhat worse, possibly. I don't see how it can get a whole lot worse at QB than this.

 

[h0c2000]

Patricia was let go. Very obvious. Not sure what you mean by flies under your radar. Patricia's firing was very public.

Fat Matt was "let go" when his contract with the Lions expired. Joe Judge will be "let go" when his contract with the Giants expires at the end of the 24 season.

 

[50-yard-line]

....and he's not accurate despite what his comp % is.

I swear on almost every throw the ball is not where it needs to be.

Sure, he has receivers who are unable to gain separation but there was a throw yesterday which was behind Pop. The throw to HH was an exception. His skittish feet do not help

The lollipop to Rham was terrible.

 

[PatsFan2]

Mac is not average he's Below average.

Kenneth Simms Quit it!!

 

[Grogan14]

I would be fine trading Mac and a 2nd rounder for Kyler Murray. I believe he us salvageable with high upside

 

[PatsFan2]

The lollipop to Rham was terrible.

Looked tasty to me Mmmmmm.

 

[PatsFan2]

I would be fine trading Mac and a 2nd rounder for Kyler Murray. I believe he us salvageable with high upside

Homers would disagree but I'm know Murray vs Mac is no comparison.

 

[Ross12]

I would be fine trading Mac and a 2nd rounder for Kyler Murray. I believe he us salvageable with high upside

His cap hits if you ignore the signing bonus (which you would as the acquiring team) are very manageable, with 2024 being slightly high - you can restructure upon acquisition to spread that hit out if you wanted to. His 2024 salary is fully guaranteed anyway so you may as well convert it into a signing bonus to spread it out across the next several years.

I'm not really sold on him but not out on him either. I'd certainly prefer to just draft a QB if they have a high pick, personally, but if they end up around 7th ish, it might make sense to target other premium positions and take a flier on him instead with another veteran like Tannehill or something.

 

[upstater1]

Giving out tons of money doesn't mean the Pats were giving out tons of money to the right guys. Parker and Gesicki are the receivers that Miami thought were expendable because they were stacked. Algholor was more about Belichick's infatuation with him than him producing on the field. Jonnu was an obvious scheme mismatch since he couldn't do anything here. Henry is a good, but not great TE. Bourne spent last year in the doghouse. Smith-Schuster was a waste of money.

Whether or not they could have performed better with a better QB isn't the issue. These guys would not have been good enough unless you had Brady or an elite QB. These are all a bunch of average at best guys for the most part that were overpaid by the Patriots. In today's NFL, you are better off throwing all your money at one great WR than a bunch of average guys.

And you cannot blame Jonnu's complete failure here on Mac. Jonnu was completely useless here. It wasn't like he under performed here. He was a waste of a roster spot. If he was really just a good player who was dragged down by bad QB play, he would have had at least some production here. He just could never pick up the Patriots offense. He may just be a guy who can only play in a simple offense where he doesn't have to think much and then he can excel.

I am literally asking you, who were the right guys?

So far you've come up with a guy who never would've come here (Brown) and Christian Kirk (who is a good argument, but you can only pay #1 money to a single player; is Kirk that player?).

 

[upstater1]

Wait.

Just adding a WR is addressing the issue?

Bourne isn't very good. Parker is dog ****. They lost Meyer who also wasn't really that good. They let aggy go who also was dog water.

All these names are number 3s at best.

But it's ok cause they got JuJu

If you thought juju was anything other than a wr on the decline then you haven't been paying attention.

This whole conversation started because I said FA isn't the way to go to find a #1 WR. Listing all the problems from going to FA route just reinforces this point; it doesn't overturn.

This is why I asked, what should we have done?

If you look around, there were no good WRs to take in the 1st 2 rounds the year we took Strange, unless you include Pickens, whose teammates apparently don't like the guy. Last year, taking a WR like Zay Flowers would mean passing up on Gonzalez, and in the 2nd rd., Keion White. So, sure we could've taken guys in the 3rd or 4th rounds, but are they going to end up being better than Demario Douglas and Kayshon Boutte? We don't even know.

Then there's the big question: what WR can you possibly entice to come here in a trade when Mac Jones is your QB?

 

[upstater1]

It's a really dumb question to pose to someone who's not privy to the private conversations of executives. How could I know what there was and wasn't available for options?

What's not dumb is to hold Bill accountable for the offense he continues to field year after year.

Holy cow, no one asked you to look into secret conversations.

I'm asking you to name alternatives, but it sounds like you believe across the league executives are secretly looking into trading CeeDee Lamb and Jamarr Chase. I can assure you, that isn't happening. And especially not to the Patriots. Not even Davante Adams is available.

You basically want to hold Belichick accountable for a stupid fantasy of yours, which is nuts to the highest degree.

 

[upstater1]

Right, that's the part people are missing. It wasn't 3rd or 4th down with 5 seconds left. It was 2nd down at around the opponents' 40 yard line with 30 seconds left and you're only down 3. Not panic time. If you don't like it then throw it away for ****'s sake.

Especially since the defense stopped Washington on 3 straight series prior to that. Even if Washington gets the ball back in OT, the Patriots have momentum

 

[SlowGettingUp]

I'm looking forward to seeing Belichick on Hard Knocks next year. Missing the playoffs two years in a row, not a rookie coach and haven't appeared on the show previously. Unless some other team volunteers, the Patriots will be the choice by the League.

(It's why I thought Belichick would pony up the bucks to sign DeAndre Hopkins - I still think the team would have looked very different this year if he had been WR1).

 

[archstanton543]

I'm looking forward to seeing Belichick on Hard Knocks next year. Missing the playoffs two years in a row, not a rookie coach and haven't appeared on the show previously. Unless some other team volunteers, the Patriots will be the choice by the League.

(It's why I thought Belichick would pony up the bucks to sign DeAndre Hopkins - I still think the team would have looked very different this year if he had been WR1).

The new coach, whoever he is, will be on Hard Knocks.

 

[SlowGettingUp]

The new coach, whoever he is, will be on Hard Knocks.

I think any team with a new coach is exempt.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Maye may jump to the #1 spot based on what has gone on with Williams over the last month from his play on the field, his reaction to it, and rumors he is demanding ownership stake from whoever drafts him.

Williams is just being a young, dumb kid with his comments. I'm sure his agent will clean him up and give the right presentation to teams by draft night. He draws comparisons to Patrick Mahomes for his off platform throws. That's something that most NFL teams can't pass up on.

I feel like Maye is the safer pick for the Patriots because he has the prototypical size and arm strength of a franchise QB. He has drawn comparisons to three-time pro bowler Carson Palmer. Also it's going to be less costly to trade up to #2 pick than the #1 pick.

 

[Real fan 02]

Where do we stand in the draft?

#5 and climbing each week.