PostGame Thread Official Post-Game Thread: Patriots Lose to Commanders 20-17

[Rob0729]

Of course Brown had all the cards. Any team trading more for Brown would need to know it would come to an agreement with him before ponying up a 1st and 2nd round draft choice.

Any team that traded for him could franchise him twice. It isn't all the cards. It was a bigger risk to trade for him without a long term deal, but not a game breaker.

And again, you are just speculating that he only wanted to go to the Eagles and he wouldn't consider the Patriots. Even though he admitted that he cried when the Pats didn't draft him and he said he was a life long Patriots fan. You think it is crazy to think because it wasn't about the money because he wanted to play with his best friend, but it was also all about the money because he got top dollar.

The fact is that Brown was never going to the Patriots, not because Brown wouldn't play for the Patriots. It was because Belichick would never give up the draft compensation to get him and pay him top of the league money. The latter part being more important. I think Belichick would rather go without WRs on the roster entirely and just have a QB, two RBs, and eight linemen blocking than pay top of the market money on a WR.

 

[SlowGettingUp]

For everyone saying that Mac has a weak arm, this ball travelled from about his own 35 to the opponent's 5 - that's about 60 yards. Turns out he overthrew it a few inches.

 

[Brotherblues]

For everyone saying that Mac has a weak arm, this ball travelled from about his own 35 to the opponent's 5 - that's about 60 yards. Turns out he overthrew it a few inches.

That settles it. I was imagining all those sideline floaters all along.

 

[upstater1]

Any team that traded for him could franchise him twice. It isn't all the cards. It was a bigger risk to trade for him without a long term deal, but not a game breaker.

And again, you are just speculating that he only wanted to go to the Eagles and he wouldn't consider the Patriots. Even though he admitted that he cried when the Pats didn't draft him and he said he was a life long Patriots fan. You think it is crazy to think because it wasn't about the money because he wanted to play with his best friend, but it was also all about the money because he got top dollar.

The fact is that Brown was never going to the Patriots, not because Brown wouldn't play for the Patriots. It was because Belichick would never give up the draft compensation to get him and pay him top of the league money. The latter part being more important. I think Belichick would rather go without WRs on the roster entirely and just have a QB, two RBs, and eight linemen blocking than pay top of the market money on a WR.

You wildly overrate Mac jones.

AJ Brown has been explicit about wanting to play with his best friend. It was a major motivation.

A 1st and a 2nd rd draft choice plus paying a guy $24m with a cap hit taking all in that year alone.

Any trade like this would require a 4 yr contract from the team not only because of the lost draft choices but because of the money itself.

 

[Rob0729]

You wildly overrate Mac jones.

AJ Brown has been explicit about wanting to play with his best friend. It was a major motivation.

A 1st and a 2nd rd draft choice plus paying a guy $24m with a cap hit taking all in that year alone.

Any trade like this would require a 4 yr contract from the team not only because of the lost draft choices but because of the money itself.

I am not wildly overrate Mac Jones. I am saying that he was considered a viable starter and a potential franchise QB after year one.

Brown said that after he was traded. It means nothing.

And yes, we are under agreement that the price given up for Brown was way too much for Belichick. Belichick doesn't value paying WRs. Never has. He wants low priced WRs. He let Branch go rather than pay him. He let both Edelman and Welker go to free agency rather than give them deals. He wouldn't pay Cooks. He paid Moss, but not top dollar.

If the Pats traded for Brown without deal, he one year left on his rookie contract. They could have franchised him twice if necessary. That is three years right there. And if he refused to sign a long term deal, they could have traded him the next year for the same that they gave up or more since this past offseason had no top WRs on the trading block unlike the previous year when Hill, Adams, and Brown were traded.

 

[rogerthat]

Zappe needs to start for the rest of the year.

I don't care that all the teams passed on him when he was cut earlier.
I don't care that the teams he beat last year were not top tier.
I don't care that he hasn't looked great in mop up duty.

All I know is that he is better than Jones- much better than Jones- and deserves a chance to lead this team based on the way that he played last year.

 

[upstater1]

I am not wildly overrate Mac Jones. I am saying that he was considered a viable starter and a potential franchise QB after year one.

Brown said that after he was traded. It means nothing.

And yes, we are under agreement that the price given up for Brown was way too much for Belichick. Belichick doesn't value paying WRs. Never has. He wants low priced WRs. He let Branch go rather than pay him. He let both Edelman and Welker go to free agency rather than give them deals. He wouldn't pay Cooks. He paid Moss, but not top dollar.

If the Pats traded for Brown without deal, he one year left on his rookie contract. They could have franchised him twice if necessary. That is three years right there. And if he refused to sign a long term deal, they could have traded him the next year for the same that they gave up or more since this past offseason had no top WRs on the trading block unlike the previous year when Hill, Adams, and Brown were traded.

It's his best friend. For years. This means something since he got the richest contract, and no Mac was not well thought of after his rookie season. In fact, outside of New England he was denigrated for his weak arm.

Can you name me a single player other than a kicker who was franchised in back to back years?

There's a reason teams NEVER do this with players.

I'm frankly stunned that you believe this is a viable plan.

 

[Rob0729]

It's his best friend. For years. This means something since he got the richest contract, and no Mac was not well thought of after his rookie season. In fact, outside of New England he was denigrated for his weak arm.

Can you name me a single player other than a kicker who was franchised in back to back years?

There's a reason teams NEVER do this with players.

I'm frankly stunned that you believe this is a viable plan.

You can say it is his best friend all you want as if it meant something. The Patriots are his favorite team. It means just as much.

Brown wanted to remain a Titan. He didn’t want to be traded to his best friend’s team. He wanted a contract with the Titans. And his trade to the Eagles was a draft day shocker. No one saw it coming until it happened during the draft. So the trade was probably put together last minute with the terms of a new contract generally agreed to. It wasn’t like Brown had much say in the matter. Jon Robinson blindsided everyone with it including Vrabel. Hence why Robinson was fired.

And according to Brown, all he wanted was the Titans to give him the contract that the Eagles gave him because that was what all the top receivers from the 2019 draft got. So he probably taken it from a lot of teams.

You can say outside of New England people were denigrating Mac Jones over and over again all you want. It carries as much weight as Amari Cooper being on seven teams and a journeyman. You are trying fit a narrative to your theory.

Kirk Cousins, Leonard Williams, DeMarcus Lawrence, and Dak Prescott have all been franchised twice in back to back seasons since 2016. In total, 13 players have been franchised twice in the history of the franchise tag. You might want to look up the definition of the word “never”. And the reason why it happens Infrequently is usually the team gets a deal done with the player after the first franchise tag.

 

[upstater1]

You can say it is his best friend all you want as if it meant something. The Patriots are his favorite team. It means just as much.

Brown wanted to remain a Titan. He didn’t want to be traded to his best friend’s team. He wanted a contract with the Titans. And his trade to the Eagles was a draft day shocker. No one saw it coming until it happened during the draft. So the trade was probably put together last minute with the terms of a new contract generally agreed to. It wasn’t like Brown had much say in the matter. Jon Robinson blindsided everyone with it including Vrabel. Hence why Robinson was fired.

And according to Brown, all he wanted was the Titans to give him the contract that the Eagles gave him because that was what all the top receivers from the 2019 draft got. So he probably taken it from a lot of teams.

You can say outside of New England people were denigrating Mac Jones over and over again all you want. It carries as much weight as Amari Cooper being on seven teams and a journeyman. You are trying fit a narrative to your theory.

Kirk Cousins, Leonard Williams, DeMarcus Lawrence, and Dak Prescott have all been franchised twice in back to back seasons since 2016. In total, 13 players have been franchised twice in the history of the franchise tag. You might want to look up the definition of the word “never”. And the reason why it happens Infrequently is usually the team gets a deal done with the player after the first franchise tag.

No signifiant players have ever received back to back franchise contracts. It's not done.

These are pros. "Favorite teams" go out the window. It's 1000x likelier they want to play with specific people.

But again, the idea these guys have no say in the matter is preposterous. If the new team doesn't agree to a deal, the trade isn't happening.

All those deals are agreed to ahead of time for a reason. The players have the leverage.

 

[Stu Pidassle]

That settles it. I was imagining all those sideline floaters all along.

Just like Brady needed to work on his mechanics, Mac has an adequate arm if he sets his feet and uses proper mechanics. At this point in his career the mechanics are not instinctual. The real problem is that his mechanics go out the window when he gets flusters which creates a toxic mix of bad decisions and weak throws.

 

[UGAPatsfan]

I think an underrated issue with Mac is actually his height.

I’d like to see next be at least 6’4”

Obviously my username makes me biased, but I think Beck could be a solid pro and IF he declares, could get him in the 3rd

 

[sb1]

Viewer discretion advised.



I’ll put it less politely…. they’re garbage. SMH. “Washington runs better routes” lmao. What a joke.

If I’m Mac I ask for a trade this offseason. He has no chance here.

 

[masterbouncer]

For everyone saying that Mac has a weak arm, this ball travelled from about his own 35 to the opponent's 5 - that's about 60 yards. Turns out he overthrew it a few inches.

83 loses a step during the route, however the ball placement and timing is still perfect, you just need to use your hands as WR to catch the ball not let it slide through your hands, Receiver was not expecting him being called up on the route and than when realizing ball is coming his way he **** his pants, hands starting to shake and do something uncoordinated and dropped (again) a perfect ball

Mac is really not kind a great out there, perhaps even crap at times but holy **** the receivers are not even average NFL level, how many dropped passes on perfect throw down there in the last couple of games? with at least a bit of competence and catching ability that would look way different also how Jones is perceived out there, now its called overthrown but it actually is a perfect pass as well as the one to Parker in the Raiders game its just there in the recievers hands but the receivers are incompetent and can't catch a perfect pass right into their hands, its a shame this team as a whole is crap (not only the QB that gets all of the heat)

I am still glad we see JuJu, Parker and other out there looking lost, thats some great roster building, you can't wish for more, BB should have paid more for them they are elevating the offense, great job BB

 

[Rob0729]

No signifiant players have ever received back to back franchise contracts. It's not done.

These are pros. "Favorite teams" go out the window. It's 1000x likelier they want to play with specific people.

But again, the idea these guys have no say in the matter is preposterous. If the new team doesn't agree to a deal, the trade isn't happening.

All those deals are agreed to ahead of time for a reason. The players have the leverage.

You are really twisting yourself in knots to make this ridiculous argument. Whenever I prove your “facts” wrong, you just move the goal post. You went from no player other a kicker has ever been franchised back to back to no significant player has ever been franchised back to back after I proved you wrong.

And despite video of Brown saying he cried when he was drafted by the Patriots because he is a Patriots fan, you say he would never have made his favorite team a factor in his decision. And even then, he might have wanted to play for Belichick.

And we have no idea what happened with the trade. We don’t know if Brown said he would only go to the Eagles. We don’t know if there were other teams in the mix and maybe they didn’t offer enough trade compensation. You are making assumptions based on him saying he was happy to play with Hurts, but you don’t know if he was willing to go anywhere else.

This is going nowhere. So I am done arguing. No matter what I say, you are never going to admit that there is a possibility you could be wrong and your opinions are facts.

And you know and I know that even if Brown only wanted to be traded to the Patriot, there is zero chance that Belichick would have done it because of draft compensation and the salary Brown would get.

 

[upstater1]

You are really twisting yourself in knots to make this ridiculous argument. Whenever I prove your “facts” wrong, you just move the goal post. You went from no player other a kicker has ever been franchised back to back to no significant player has ever been franchised back to back after I proved you wrong.

And despite video of Brown saying he cried when he was drafted by the Patriots because he is a Patriots fan, you say he would never have made his favorite team a factor in his decision. And even then, he might have wanted to play for Belichick.

And we have no idea what happened with the trade. We don’t know if Brown said he would only go to the Eagles. We don’t know if there were other teams in the mix and maybe they didn’t offer enough trade compensation. You are making assumptions based on him saying he was happy to play with Hurts, but you don’t know if he was willing to go anywhere else.

This is going nowhere. So I am done arguing. No matter what I say, you are never going to admit that there is a possibility you could be wrong and your opinions are facts.

And you know and I know that even if Brown only wanted to be traded to the Patriot, there is zero chance that Belichick would have done it because of draft compensation and the salary Brown would get.

We both think the other is making the most ridiculous arguments imaginable.

We've never seen anyone be franchised year after year.

As they say the proof is in the pudding.

It doesn't happen

 

[Rob0729]

We both think the other is making the most ridiculous arguments imaginable.

We've never seen anyone be franchised year after year.

As they say the proof is in the pudding.

It doesn't happen

One last one and then I am done.

That back to back franchising would be the extreme case. If the Pats traded for Brown and offered him the money he wanted, he would have signed. It is silly to think otherwise. He wasn't going turn down a four year $100 million contract with $80 million guaranteed from the Patriots because he would rather play for his friend and play out his rookie deal and force the Pats to either not franchise him or franchise and trade him to the Eagles after that season.

Except Belichick was never going to pay a WR $25 million a year. Never going to happen. He wouldn't pay DeAndre Hopkins what he got in Tennessee (2 years, $26 million). He wasn't going to pay AJ Brown since Brown gets about as much a year as Hopkins would get in two.

And we have seen 13 players franchised year after year with five of them being in the last 6-7 years. Stop saying never.

 

[upstater1]

One last one and then I am done.

That back to back franchising would be the extreme case. If the Pats traded for Brown and offered him the money he wanted, he would have signed. It is silly to think otherwise.

Except Belichick was never going to pay a WR $25 million a year. Never going to happen. He wouldn't pay DeAndre Hopkins what he got in Tennessee (2 years, $26 million). He wasn't going to pay AJ Brown since Brown gets about as much a year as Hopkins would get in two.

And we have seen 13 players franchised year after year with five of them being in the last 6-7 years. Stop saying never.

You agree to the contract BEFORE you're traded. Not after.

This is why the players have leverage.

 

[Rob0729]

You agree to the contract BEFORE you're traded. Not after.

This is why the players have leverage.

And if the Pats offered him what he wanted, he would taken it if the Titans said they decided to take the Patriots offer over the Eagles.

The Titans had plenty of leverage. They could let him play out his rookie contract and franchised him the next year and even have him play on the franchise deal. And then traded him two years later than they did. Or franchise him and trade him before last season. The Titans didn't need to trade him at all. They had control of him for at least two years.

 

[upstater1]

And if the Pats offered him what he wanted, he would taken it if the Titans said they decided to take the Patriots offer over the Eagles.

The Titans had plenty of leverage. They could let him play out his rookie contract and franchised him the next year and even have him play on the franchise deal. And then traded him two years later than they did. Or franchise him and trade him before last season. The Titans didn't need to trade him at all. They had control of him for at least two years.

The Titans are not risking losing a 1st and 3rd rounder after they've already determined that they did not want to keep him.

The Titans are going to move him.

As soon as he says to the Patriots, I'm not signing with you, the Patriots would remove their trade offer, and the Titans would move on to the Eagles.

You make it sound like we could've traded for Tyreek Hill too!!