Deandre Hopkins Visiting Patriots Next Week

[PatsfanTN]

thread Derailment in full effect I see.

 

[patfanken]

This is why many say Bill still coaches like it’s the 80’s or 90’s.

This last statement could not be FURTHER from the truth and if you happen to have taken even a PASSING glance at the team over the last 20 years you SHOULD know it. too

AND for the "many" you contend say it, believe me, their COMBINED football knowledge adds up to their knowledge that football is played in the fall and has 11 players on each side.

 

[Wozzy]

Their weapons are good but would be much better with the addition of Hopkins. Still, the player leading the charge - the QB Mac jones - definitely is not striking fear in hearts of any defense. Winning with an average or lesser quarterback is rare.

Hopkins would be an upgrade to Devante Parker. Not only is he more mobile, can run more routes but Parker is a massive injury risk. Hopkins had one knee injury in 2021 but otherwise has been an ironman. I want them to trade out Parker for Hopkins.

Nobody knows what Mac will do this season in a much better situation, not you, not me… but you’re pretending to know.

Only one team wins the Super Bowl. Since 2014 there have been 9 Super Bowls with 18 starting quarterbacks. Since 2014 the two best quarterbacks in the NFL have been Tom Brady and Patrick Mahomes (and he wasn't starting until 2018). Of those 18 starting Super Bowl quarterbacks, Brady and Mahomes account for 8 (44%), and they account for 6 of the 9 winning quarterbacks (67%). That you can sit there and honestly argue against the overwhelming importance of an elite quarterback when the two best have won 67% of the last 9 Super Bowls is ridiculous.

Change those QB’s names to Patriots/Chiefs and it sounds very similar. Change those names to Belichick/Reid and it sounds very similar. You’re attributing team success to one player… hero worship.

So the Patriots are going to have the (at minimum) 6th highest scoring offense in the NFL in 2023? Are you taking bets on this? Because I'm allover that.

The Pats also have the toughest schedule in the NFL in the division with the toughest defenses. They need to stay healthy, but if they do and the youth movement develop into contributors they should be a top ten offense.

I don’t make online bets, I certainly don’t with posters who have proven to be completely dishonest like yourself.

Are saying they're individually among the best TEs in the NFL? Or they're one of the best duos? Because the first interpretation is ludicrous.

Individually and as a duo, you go to the Captain Stoned school of player evaluation. Every player on any other team is great, unless they join the Patriots, at which point they suck.

Um, Travis Kelce is superior to Henry and Gesicki by any comparable. He's soon to be the GOAT TE.

So Mahomes and Reid played no part in that except when we’re talking about Juju last season?

Gesicki’s best year involved a half a season of Tua, half Fitzmagic, a poor offensive line, relic Chan Gailey calling plays and lesser weapons around him… oh yeah, and Kelce averages about 150 targets a year, Mike has eclipsed 100 targets once. But in your mind magic QB’s only count when you’re trying to make a point about current Patriots sucking. Laughable…

I respect Andy Reid quite a bit but no way was he winning a Super Bowl with Mac Jones quarterbacking the offense he had last season.

We have no clue what Jones looks like multiple years into Reid’s scheme.

That's why Brady goes to a new team with new players and new coaches and wins immediately like he did in New England for two decades when from the first to last championship he was the only player there for every time. Brady's as dependent of the players and coaches around him as he is of the football field itself, he needs the surface to perform on. You act like Brady's not the indisputable GOAT. Or like he's the GOAT for reasons unrelated to himself. Again, ridiculous.

Brady handpicked the best possible situation that only needed a QB, who led the league in passing and rush defense multiple years prior. Stop.

 

[Wozzy]

Yeah, there really is no use arguing if you truly believe that there is no difference between Henry/Gesicki or Kelce....

No players have more talent than others...it's just the offense they are in...

I did say there was a difference, the Chiefs offense is significantly better than any those two have played on.

 

[TheRainMaker]

This last statement could not be FURTHER from the truth and if you happen to have taken even a PASSING glance at the team over the last 20 years you SHOULD know it. too

AND for the "many" you contend say it, believe me, their COMBINED football knowledge adds up to their knowledge that football is played in the fall and has 11 players on each side.

The comment was not referring to the last 20 years. It was referring to the last few years.

The "many" includes former Patriots.

 

[RIpats88]

 

[Patsgofor4]

I’m getting bored with this game already. Time to utilize the thread ignore function, so I’m not tempted to check in until there is actual news. This is going to be a looooong month.

 

[Ross12]

This is essentially the same problem we had last year except Gesicki is a better player and rr than Smith. Still neither can block inline.

Henry isn't terrible he's just not good inline and Gesicki can block a little in space. Idk we'll see what happens. I'm just a little pissed bc we poured a lot of resources into the position recently.

Yeah it's not anything to be blown away by but it's hopefully enough to at least be OK offensively with a little play calling ingenuity and the QB being allowed to drive the car and not be handcuffed. If they can be good enough to manage 20-ish points a game, lean on their defense, and be able to take advantage of the turnovers that the defense gives them (sooo many squandered turnovers last year, the defense had to take it in themselves if they wanted the 6 points most of the time) then they can be a playoff team I think.

But I hear you, it is a lot of money spent on offensive pieces the last few years and not a lot to show for it. Adding Hopkins might finally make it a pretty good group but they have to get him first, and that's even more cash thrown at the problem.

 

[signbabybrady]

That was fun while it lasted.

 

[patfanken]

The comment was not referring to the last 20 years. It was referring to the last few years.

The "many" includes former Patriots.

You mean 2020, when after losing 3 key players to covid, being so cap strapped that even while letting Brady walk, they only had $1MM for a QB, got Newton and his inaccurate noodle arm and yet managed to win 7 games . Or was it 2020, when it seemed we GOT the best rookie QB, everyone was happy with the choice and we won 10 games. OR the last season when the QB sucked, the coaching sucked, the OL sucked, and we STILL were one win away from a playoff berth in a close game in the middle of the 4th quarter.

There were some good things, some bad things, some unlucky things and some things that should be rightfully criticized. BUT there were no 4 win seasons. No collapses. NONE of the myriad things that cripple other franchises annually.

Now have these last 3 season measured up to what we have come to expect. Nope, not even close. But those kinds of expectations are really out of whack with the reality of this league and how its set up. I mean why can't we be so lucky to have a QB like Justin Fields. He knows how to run and he knows how to lead his team to a 3 win season. We should be so lucky

 

[Ras-IR Dowling]

Sounds like Dalvin is looking to pair up with Hopkins.

 

[Ross12]

Sounds like Dalvin is looking to pair up with Hopkins.

Who has the cash to sign both and the interest too? NE is the only team I can think of. The Browns or Lions, maybe…?

 

[crawhammer]

I don’t make online bets, I certainly don’t with posters who have proven to be completely dishonest like yourself.

Give me one specific example of me being dishonest. Just one. You must have many considering "it's proven."

 

[Patsfan1958]

 

[captain stone]

Wozzy I agree with alot of your takes about the importance of team over any one player even the GOAT QB but you are off the reservation on this one. Gesicki and Henry are average players giving you average production. If they were good enough to be getting 150 targets a season they would be. They only get 60-80 targets cuz they are only open that much versus Kelce, as much as I dislike him, is better at getting separation. He is a better weapon and is part of what makes Mahomes so good, he has a place to go in an emergency. The new NFL is all about scoring and having a #1 weapon (WR, TE whatever) is becoming a larger and larger part of that talent equation you talk about. I preferred football when good o line play was the most important thing but to say it hasn't changed is just sticking your head in the sand going la la la la la I can't hear you.

Yep, the league itself has tilted the playing field in favor of the offense, and of certain players on offense, because Chicks dig the long ball.

The AFC in particular has become a giant arms race; and if you don't have that Sparrow-Sidewinder combination then it's going to be real hard to string together enough wins to make noise in the POs, now and for the foreseeable future. It's great to have a productive running game and a defense that most always keeps you in striking distance; but if you can't threaten the scoreboard with quick-strike capability when necessary, then the other guys eventually will.

 

[BUSTAMOVE]

Hey man, high people can be right sometimes!

I will bet my house a straight person did not invent Rocky Roads Ice Cream

 

[Wozzy]

You do realize by saying this you're saying that Gesicki would probably be better than:

5th all time among tight ends with 814 career receptions
6th all time with 69 touchdown catches
1st all time with 71.8 yards per game
Single-season record for tight ends in receiving yards (1,416)

If he was in Reid's offense his entire career, it's possible.

And I didn't say Gesicki was a better TE, I was very specific with my words... I said athlete.

Hunter Henry is a comparable athlete to Kelce, if Kelce has him at all it's arm length... Travis has long arms.

But Gesicki is a unique athlete. One of the most athletic TE's to come out of the draft in the last 30 years at least... he's played on crap teams, worse than Henry probably.

Neither has played for rings in an optimal pro football situation and Super Bowl contender at any point... Kelce has his entire career.

 

[Wozzy]

Wozzy I agree with alot of your takes about the importance of team over any one player even the GOAT QB but you are off the reservation on this one. Gesicki and Henry are average players giving you average production.

They're average... or was it the teams they played on were average... or worse?

Don't make me pull out the history books to highlight how terrible those Dolphins and Chargers teams were.

If they were good enough to be getting 150 targets a season they would be. They only get 60-80 targets cuz they are only open that much versus Kelce, as much as I dislike him, is better at getting separation. He is a better weapon and is part of what makes Mahomes so good, he has a place to go in an emergency.

That's a load of crap.

Was Randy Moss "lesser"... bad at his job catching 42 passes for 553 yards and 3 TD's in 2006, or was he the player that put up the single greatest individual WR season in NFL history one season later?

Was is it because of Moss? Or was it Andrew Walters (who?) throwing him the ball behind the worst offensive line in the league?

The new NFL is all about scoring and having a #1 weapon (WR, TE whatever) is becoming a larger and larger part of that talent equation you talk about. I preferred football when good o line play was the most important thing but to say it hasn't changed is just sticking your head in the sand going la la la la la I can't hear you.

If we're accepting that TE's can be superweapon enough to be a #1 weapon (whatever that is), then Hunter and Gesicki individually have the talent to be, together they could be a tough cover. Gesicki especially is a unique athlete.

 

[Wozzy]

Bro are you high

Sure... any TE wouldn't benefit from 50-70 more receiving targets a season from Mahomes, with Reid designing plays and calling the offense.

Welcome to weird world.

Here's a newsflash for everybody arguing with me... weapons don't play in a vacuum.

Receiving weapons don't throw to themselves.

 

[mgteich]

I will bet my house a straight person did not invent Rocky Roads Ice Cream

Rocky road (ice cream) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

perhaps; not likely though