How much longer will you drink the BB kool-aid?

[Wozzy]

That only worked because of Brady being able to lead game winning drives, have strong poise, and maximize what he had. And yes, I know the Pats had a good defense.

Even with the Pats defense, Bledsoe wasn't going to accomplish what Brady did. There's a reason people thought the Pats were dead in the water when Bledsoe got hurt. Because people thought the team wasn't that great.

Outside of them though? Peyton's colts and broncos had good receivers. The steelers had good receivers.

Fitzgerald rarely had good QB play - the few times he did, the Cardinals went to the super bowl and nfc title game.

Julio jones and the falcons made the super bowl... and played well... and would have if the Pats had literally any other QB in the league playing for them that day

I don't get it man. Just look at history. Receivers are damned important. I Don't know why you're still arguing this ‍

Utter load of BS… Troy Brown returned a punt in the AFC Championship game 55 yards for a TD. How did Brady help on that score, was he out there blocking?

No, he wasn’t. In fact he was injured and Bledsoe was out there throwing a TD pass to David Patten. Tom doesn’t have ring #1 without his teammates.

Giving Tom credit for other players success is nonsense. When Edelman was making an impossible diving reception in the super bowl comeback versus the Falcons, he was making Tom look good… not the other way around.

Receivers are important…. the notion that they only arrive via first round draft picks or as expensive free agents is utter nonsense.

Terrell Ownes was a 3rd round pick, Steve Smith was a 3rd round pick, Chris Carter was a 4th round pick, Stefon Diggs was a 5th round pick, Tyreek Hill was a 5th round pick.

The best way to find super weapons is to draft and develop them. Overpaying for names isn’t the only way. And for all we know Thornton or Marcus Jones can become that.

 

[StrawHatPatriot]

Utter load of BS… Troy Brown returned a punt in the AFC Championship game 55 yards for a TD. How did Brady help on that score, was he out there blocking?

No, he wasn’t. In fact he was injured and Bledsoe was out there throwing a TD pass to David Patten. Tom doesn’t have ring #1 without his teammates.

Giving Tom credit for other players success is nonsense. When Edelman was making an impossible diving reception in the super bowl comeback versus the Falcons, he was making Tom look good… not the other way around.

Receivers are important…. the notion that they only arrive via first round draft picks or as expensive free agents is utter nonsense.

Terrell Ownes was a 3rd round pick, Steve Smith was a 3rd round pick, Chris Carter was a 4th round pick, Stefon Diggs was a 5th round pick, Tyreek Hill was a 5th round pick.

The best way to find super weapons is to draft and develop them. Overpaying for names isn’t the only way. And for all we know Thornton or Marcus Jones can become that.

You keep on intentionally misunderstanding everyone's points just so you can get your point across. You love arguing against points that no one even said.

No one said Brady is responsible for everything. No one is giving Brady credit for the things other players did. All we've said is that Brady - by virtue of being the QB - and by virtue of being the GOAT QB - is still the main x factor. That plenty of teams can have good players and their own culture, but if their QB is not up to par, it puts so much more pressure on all those other players to be superstars, instead of just good players. It's more pressure on the front office to draft better at all spots and for the locker room and coaching to be much better.

Troy Brown was awesome, and yes, Bledsoe and the Pats won the title game in 2001 without Brady. But do they run the table to get there without Brady? Down 28-3, how many QBs do you trust to fill in Brady's spot. You convenient focused on the Edelman play, and ignored the other dimes Brady threw during the comeback.

I'm not forcing you to agree with everything. But you always go off the rails.

I, and others, obviously don't think Brady is responsible for everything. But of course you take it that way to get your point off.

Don't you get tired of this? Why not just give a real counter argument instead of doing this all the time? Instead of Consistently relying on exagerrating someone else's point. Do you even realize your doing this?

 

[BennyBledsoe]

A receiver is as good as his ability to gain separation with their route running and fakeout skills. Speed helps, sure, but if in college...that is ALL you're winning against overmatched DBs with....then you're going to be a worthless NFL receiver where all DBs were once the BEST their schools had to offer. Even a miserable defense likely is fielding a defensive backfield littered with guys that were top college players.

That's why guys like Welker and Edelman succeeded. They were route perfectionists, they sold their fakes hard and got separation.

 

[1960Pats]

brady is the goat, and there really isn't anyone inline to replace that, other than the last person(s) that won a Superbowl, history will show that is not true, and we will never see another run as we just did, bill gives us the best chance to win, if you or any nostra-dumbass sees the next Brady , let bill know but I am not ready to support removing him, its just not logical to do so at this point, and you are letting your emotions get in the way of reality , we are back in the pack of hopefuls and not in Jests territory

I don't think I ever supported removing Bill. I was just unhappy with the way he chased away the greatest QB who ever played (among other top players). I was also unhappy with the thought of Bill retiring as a Patriot but not Brady. It also bothered me that someone as insignificant as a coach could make that happen. Shame on Kraft for that.

 

[1960Pats]

A receiver is as good as his ability to gain separation with their route running and fakeout skills. Speed helps, sure, but if in college...that is ALL you're winning against overmatched DBs with....then you're going to be a worthless NFL receiver where all DBs were once the BEST their schools had to offer. Even a miserable defense likely is fielding a defensive backfield littered with guys that were top college players.

That's why guys like Welker and Edelman succeeded. They were route perfectionists, they sold their fakes hard and got separation.

Some players have an eye for the open spaces, before and after the catch. Hernandez was like that too.

 

[1960Pats]

I hate to break it to you but no coach wins without great players. And no great player wins without other great players.

I hate to break it to you but that's all that I've ever said.
And coaches that let those great players walk are what? Geniuses?

 

[FCB02062]

7-9, 10-8, 8-9 = 25-26
Belichicks record post Brady
nuff ced
without Brady to cover up for his dodgy decisions on an off the field, he is the football equivalent of Ralph Houk in the early 80s.... mediocre

 

[Wozzy]

You keep on intentionally misunderstanding everyone's points just so you can get your point across. You love arguing against points that no one even said.

No one said Brady is responsible for everything. No one is giving Brady credit for the things other players did. All we've said is that Brady - by virtue of being the QB - and by virtue of being the GOAT QB - is still the main x factor. That plenty of teams can have good players and their own culture, but if their QB is not up to par, it puts so much more pressure on all those other players to be superstars, instead of just good players. It's more pressure on the front office to draft better at all spots and for the locker room and coaching to be much better.

Troy Brown was awesome, and yes, Bledsoe and the Pats won the title game in 2001 without Brady. But do they run the table to get there without Brady? Down 28-3, how many QBs do you trust to fill in Brady's spot. You convenient focused on the Edelman play, and ignored the other dimes Brady threw during the comeback.

I'm not forcing you to agree with everything. But you always go off the rails.

I, and others, obviously don't think Brady is responsible for everything. But of course you take it that way to get your point off.

Don't you get tired of this? Why not just give a real counter argument instead of doing this all the time? Instead of Consistently relying on exagerrating someone else's point. Do you even realize your doing this?

When you piggyback on top of Triumph's inane argument that "the Pat's could build an offensive roster with JAGS and win Super Bowls because of Brady" then no, I'm not misunderstanding you.

Arguing that Troy Brown or Edelman were only good because of Brady is equally dumb. They made each other look good.

Arguing that a team needs some top of the market paid WR to make and win a Super Bowl is also silly.... the Chiefs just won it last year with Juju as their leading WR, but now he's not good enough? History is littered with Super Bowl winners who didn't have one superstar WR, but had a bunch of "good" WR's instead.

The Pats don't have one weapon that strikes fear in the hearts of opponents.... sure, but if you don't show respect to Rhamondre, Henry, Gesicki, Parker, Bourne, Juju, possibly Thornton and definitely Marcus Jones along with whomever they draft or sign before the regular season they will ring up points on you.

Football is about matchups and crafting mismatches, Tyreek Hill is supremely dangerous, but has been less so when he's played against Jon Jones.

The Patriots need to get great QB play from either Mac or Zappe, beyond that... nobody has to turn into another Brady. One of them could simply become Kirk Cousins and this team could be a contender.

Brady wasn't a cure all, he was a great player on good to great teams. We need good QB play... that makes us like every other team in the league.

 

[Wozzy]

I hate to break it to you but that's all that I've ever said.
And coaches that let those great players walk are what? Geniuses?

Free agents can do whatever they want... it's the "free" part of free agent.

 

[Tunescribe]

7-9, 10-8, 8-9 = 25-26
Belichicks record post Brady
nuff ced

Yeah, that about sums up your vacant neanderthal "intellect" save for the wussy *****ing, whining and moaning. Go eat some raw meat and get back to sweeping the floor.

 

[TomPatriot]

I hate to break it to you but that's all that I've ever said.
And coaches that let those great players walk are what? Geniuses?

Ok, I wasn’t trying to be cheeky. Sorry.

Better a year too early than a year too late. That didn’t quite work out with Brady, but he wouldn‘t have won with the Pats team assembled anyway.

 

[anditsgood]

I don't think I ever supported removing Bill. I was just unhappy with the way he chased away the greatest QB who ever played (among other top players). I was also unhappy with the thought of Bill retiring as a Patriot but not Brady. It also bothered me that someone as insignificant as a coach could make that happen. Shame on Kraft for that.

but at what cost?

Bill has always been its best to let a player go a year too early than a year too late, and fan favorites are no exception, he did this in Cleveland with Kosar, and Brady was no exception,

what would it cost to keep Brady here another year,? what talent would we have to give up to keep him,?
also even if Brady would have stayed and we did not sign scam newton, I believe we still would not make the playoffs and definitely not won the Superbowl like Brady did with the talent he had around in the year he left

sure, I am disappointed too that Brady did NOT stay but with the salary cap and business side of the NFL, that wasn't going to happen, It just makes me cherish the previous 20 years all that much more. all good things must come to an end, and i wont let the emotional side of that cloud my thougths

 

[Wozzy]

but at what cost?

Bill has always been its best to let a player go a year too early than a year too late, and fan favorites are no exception, he did this in Cleveland with Kosar, and Brady was no exception,

I'd even say he held onto Kosar too long because he was pressured by the owner, media and fans to win with their favorite player... even though he was toast by that point.

If anything the Kosar experience is what peppered all age related personnel decisions going forward. Bill was the youngest head coach in league history at that point... lessons learned.

 

[Ring 6]

7-9, 10-8, 8-9 = 25-26
Belichicks record post Brady
nuff ced
without Brady to cover up for his dodgy decisions on an off the field, he is the football equivalent of Ralph Houk in the early 80s.... mediocre

If you ignore the greatest 20 year run in history and only look at the first 3 years of the rebuild that followed and consider that rebuild to be how you judge the man’s work you are a liar or an idiot

 

[Ring 6]

but at what cost?

Bill has always been its best to let a player go a year too early than a year too late, and fan favorites are no exception, he did this in Cleveland with Kosar, and Brady was no exception,

what would it cost to keep Brady here another year,? what talent would we have to give up to keep him,?
also even if Brady would have stayed and we did not sign scam newton, I believe we still would not make the playoffs and definitely not won the Superbowl like Brady did with the talent he had around in the year he left

sure, I am disappointed too that Brady did stay but with the salary cap and business side of the NFL, that wasn't going to happen, It just makes me cherish the previous 20 years all that much more. all good things must come to an end, and i wont let the emotional side of that cloud my thougths

On the other side of it, let’s say Brady stayed. Considering the state of the team in 2019 and the cap problems they had without paying Brady, now that we know Brady’s expiration date, what was lost by him not being here those 3 years.
Honest people who are upset about will tell you it’s all emotional and they wanted Brady to finish his career as a Patriot.

 

[40yrpatsfan]

Because there's no way to ever determine the exact percentage of credit between Brady & Belichick, I think everyone should just settle on 50-50. This is directed more to the BB doubters & haters, cause nobody's claiming our overall success was 80% due to BB, but there's a LOT claiming it's 80% due to Brady. Of course they don't want to admit that the first and last championships were very clearly due to Belichick, and some of the others in between are debatable.

As far as letting Brady go 3 years ago, the guy was 42 and the roster was on the decline, so it was clear that the era of Brady winning rings here was over, that keeping him was gonna mean more seasons like his last one here. Not to mention that it was Brady who left, not Belichick who kicked him out. Tom asked to not be tagged, Kraft & BB granted that request out of respect for everything he'd done, and the rest was Tom arranging his exit. Regardless, it was a win-win - Brady got a ring with a loaded Bucs team, and the Pats reset their roster/cap and drafted a promising QB at 15.

 

[PScottman]

And I do not believe there is someone better waiting in the wings. If that constitutes "giving him a pass" then I don't know what else to tell you.

Nailed it.

While I realize there will be those that will woulda/coulda/shoulda on like Payton; it is the usual assumption that EVERY variable (negotiations, powers, salary, staff, timing, etc) is exactly in line with what the Patriots could do. Such "I can control everything so why can't the Patriots" attitude simply isn't reality.

 

[PScottman]

Removing an established head coach means revamping an entire football operation. He correctly has been afforded the opportunity to set things right.

Second and third order thinking like that isn't allowed in this forum.

Knee jerk and revisionist all the time - that's what sells!

 

[PScottman]

Kraft could very well fire BB after this season.

If they have an even worse record than last year with no improvement, he probably will seriously consider it - just like he did with Pete Carroll.

There's historical precedent of what it takes for a replacement of the coaching staff at Patriots Place, but many just keep ignoring it.

 

[PScottman]

You can trade players and create cap space.

Wait, didn't all those players suck because of the GM; so who would trade without a mind control device??