How much longer will you drink the BB kool-aid?

[50-yard-line]

It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see that Mac Jones is no Tom Brady.

Who is?
Who in the league right now could be? Maybe Mahomes, maybe Burrow (doubt it)...

You can draft QBs with your first three picks 20 years and still not get Tom Brady.

 

[Ian]

I'm open to this. Like I suppose I'm not certain who did or did not want that Bledsoe mega-deal. Bill was hired as the head coach and general manager of the team, right? I thought Kraft hired Bill with an epiphany that even as the team's owner he needed to stay in his own lane and let the HC coach and the GM manage. After the whole debacle with the other Bill and the failure with Pete.

My assumption is Belichick would have at least signed off on that Bledsoe deal. I mean there's not a bigger decision for a team to make. How could Kraft have done that absent Bill's complete approval? I keep hearing, from members of the forum, that Bill had "nothing to do with it" and it was "all Robert Kraft's doing." I just don't recall ever seeing or hearing any actual confirmation of it. So I find it very hard to believe it went down like that.

You say that, but none of us - and I was there in 2000 - would have predicted Brady being the starter that early. Bledsoe was the prototypical franchise guy, albeit he was flawed but back then, he was an upper echelon QB. Credit Belichick for keeping Brady on the roster and having the guts to stick to the decision when Bledsoe was healthy. That in and of itself was bigger than people realize and he doesn’t get enough credit for that. Especially given how contentious those press conferences were. They were crazy intense - it’s definitely sort of wild looking back on it.

 

[50-yard-line]

Brady won in Tampa.

Brady picked Tampa because that team was ready to win and the only piece missing was a QB. Both Evans and Godwin were 1500+ WRs the year before. Winston's turnovers were the only thing holding back an extremely talented club.

Add AB, Gronk, Fournette, and Brady...

I picked them to win it the moment Brady joined.
They'll be a QB-less CAP mess for a while now, but they got their ring.

 

[50-yard-line]

Gesicki was far from the most expensive free agent at the position. He is exactly what I was referring to. Henry’s backup and the 2nd TE in cases where we need one. He will play less than 50% of the snaps, which is what backups do.
Scratch that need off my list.

He'll play more than 50%, I bet. He lines up in the slot and outside way more than in-line. He's really a big slot guy.

 

[Wozzy]

Um, how is it that you get to change my timeframe?? I said 2019 to 2022. Collectively 8-15 after December 1. Why?

What is the significance of 2019 and how does it relate to now? It doesn’t, it falls under the last dynasty. Different team, different QB, different offensive coach, completely different.

The reset happened in 2020, the climb back started in 2021. You want to lump a bunch of seasons together that are completely unrelated to paint a picture.

You're giving me reasons for individual seasons. I can't change how you're responding to my question but you're not actually answering MY questions.

The answers are there, they’re clear and concise. You don’t like how logical and rational the answers are so you’re obfuscating.

You need to re-watch week 17 of the 2019 season too. Brady gave them the lead late in the 4th quarter. The defense pathetically couldn't stop Ryan Fitzpatrick. And Belichick managed timeouts as though he had been possessed by Todd Bowles.

The 17th ranked offense fell apart, the defense ranked #1 in the league. You’re reimagining the past again.

Sounds stupid. And also not something I said.

Yet you did. Thornton isn’t relevant because he hasn’t done anything yet. You can’t see the future, you pretend you can, but you can’t.

I don't recall Seymour ever being dominant in the postseason. He didn't exactly tear it up as a rookie in 2001 either.

A DT who commands double teams is dominant by default. You must have missed his HOF enshrinement. Just a dumb reimagining again.

I love Ty Law but they won in 2004 after he went down... 10-1 without him. I'll give Adam major cred for the game-tying FG in the Snow Bowl... given the conditions and the historical importance of the kick, it just may be the greatest made FG in the history of the NFL.

They won in 2001 after Tom went down and Bledsoe had to enter the game. You obviously don’t remember because you were a child.

I hate BB because I like Meyers and wanted him re-signed? That's a stupid opinion. I've been calling for Meyers to be re-signed since last spring, I like the player, he was a good fit for the offense. His best season was this past season, I did a stats comparison before to prove it (and as you like to say he was dealing with the catastrophe at OC).

You hate BB because it’s your entire personae on this site.

I like Juju but he hasn't been the same player he was with AB terrorizing DBs on the other side of the field. I don't think Juju is a WR1. Although he probably can duplicate Meyers production, we'll see.

He’s been better than Jakobi almost every season he has played a full season. It’s not even close. He’s Jakobi but faster.

Did I say anything inaccurate there? Quote it.

It’s just weird how you’re supposedly a Pats fan but bend over backwards to tell us the winningest coach in history is a dunderhead. As if someone could luck into unprecedented success in this sport. It’s embarrassing, I’m embarrassed for you.

Who cares... there I'm talking about what the offense will look like in 2023. So far they've upgraded the TE2 spot, congratulations, Juju is nice, but they lost Meyers to offset that imo so I want to see what's next. They need to do more if they expect to be competitive with a mediocre QB like Mac.

They upgraded the single greatest weakness in coaching. They have two QB’s who can get it right, if it’s not Mac it’s Zappe.

You're not making a worthy point here. Who the **** knows what was going on with Moss in Oakland, he's a massive headcase, he clearly had checked out on that team, blatantly quit. He couldn't even keep his **** together in New England with the GOAT.

Nothing was going on in Oakland, he had terrible everything around him. If you don’t understand this you shouldn’t switch to a sport you understand… pickle ball and is all the rage.

You want to say Thornton had no chance but he had 527 snaps (66%) with 45 targets of which he could only convert 48.9%. By comparison, Bourne had much fewer snaps with 441 (only 44%), and a similar number of targets with 48, but he hauled in 72.9% of those. Same offense, same OC, same QBs. I don't care if Thornton was supposedly blowing minds in training camp, he gave them very little when the real games started.

Was Bourne a rookie learning how to be a pro? Jesus.. what sport are you watching?

 

[StrawHatPatriot]

Your argument is
1) WRs are vital to winning
2) Hill is a top 5 receiver

Hill went from Kc to Miami. Kc got better, Miami didn’t.

He is support of the argument that you are wrong about (1)


The 2001 team was a completely different team than the 2001 team.

Hill helped improved the dolphins offense. The issue is Tua's concussions or else they would have been a 12 win team

Cooper Kupp won Super Bowl MVP

Eagles and Jaylen Hurts still got better this year by adding AJ Brown, and made a Super bowl

Bengals have Burrow throwing to Chase and Higgins and they made a super bowl

If anything, the Patriots and this year's chiefs team was an Anamoly.

90s rams had Torry holt and Isaac Bruce
90s Broncos and 90s Cowboys were stacked at both WR and RB

Trying to say receivers don't matter is asinine. It basically puts pressure on your QB to be GOAT level.

I don't know why you are even arguing this when most of the elite teams and Super bowl contenders year in and year out have them and the Pats... are sitting at home

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Are people really talking about Gesicki as a TE or BU TE? I was happy we addressed the WR position when I heard we signed him.

Seriously though. Both signings are upgrades. Not game changers but JuJu is as tough as Kobi and offers more yac. Smith need to be handed the ball while Gesicki run WR routes. Basically a big slot. Adds a lot of speed.

100% drafting a blocking TE. Low key one of our bigger needs. Henry can't block and Smith sucked blocking for the most part. Hopefully Washington last until day 2 or even Mayer but there's others that'll be available.

Amazing how bad we ****ed up that position. Drafted two, signed two the next year for big money for an absolute nothing burger.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Are people really talking about Gesicki as a TE or BU TE? I was happy we addressed the WR position when I heard we signed him.

Seriously though. Both signings are upgrades. Not game changers but JuJu is as tough as Kobi and offers more yac. Smith need to be handed the ball while Gesicki run WR routes. Basically a big slot. Adds a lot of speed.

100% drafting a blocking TE. Low key one of our bigger needs. Henry can't block and Smith sucked blocking for the most part. Hopefully Washington last until day 2 or even Mayer but there's others that'll be available.

Amazing how bad we ****ed up that position. Drafted two, signed two the next year for big money for an absolute nothing burger.

Asiasi and Keene were "nothing burgers", and Jonnu and Henry disappointed, were not worth the money, but not "nothing burgers". Maybe I misunderstood you?

 

[Triumph]

I didn't read where Bruschi said all our players suck, BB sucks and the entire team was doomed... or did I miss something?

By my count the Pats have 69 players currently under contract, they have two long snappers and will cut Tucker Addington now that Cardona is back. They also have a lot of dead weight at the end of the depth chart if they want to add more players. But for the sake of argument, let's say Tucker is replaced by a punter.

They have 11 draft picks, so that means they can sign at minimum 10 more free agents or trade for some players.

They're going to add 21 more players from now to the start of camp to reach the 90 teams can invite, they have among the most cap space in the league, they have 11 draft picks. There are a lot of good to great free agents still out there and many players on the trading block.

I'm an objective rational fan who can state my position with nuance and without emotion.

You're a troll.

You're an idiot.

Bruschi is correct, there is no NE WR that strikes fear in the hearts of defenses.

 

[Triumph]

its the last piece to Belichick's legacy. BB will be around 2 more years

Not if Kraft retires him.

Kraft wont sit around and watch 2 more years of what's happened the last 3 seasons without making a move. In one of the Pats books, Bob Kraft talks about BOB as BBs successor.

 

[1960Pats]

Kool Aide aside I was ready to move on from Bill after last season. The Patricia as OC decision was it for me.

I was ready to move on from Bill after he dumped Brady, got nothing in return and had nobody to replace him. And now I'm moving on from the NYFL.

 

[1960Pats]

until there is a head coach that is available and better. this fans base of chicken little has worn thin, and expecting the next 20 years to repeat itself is not realistic or expected
and asking this makes you worse than the 3 young punks mouthing off, its tiring and takes away from what we experienced,

the chefs are accepting bandwagon fans, you are more than welcome to join them

It really is amazing that we have two large bodies of work from a HC who broke records with Tom Brady but is Wrecks Ryan without him. That's the truth and all of the reach-arounds for Bill doesn't change that FACT at all. Neither does calling the fans names who disagree or telling them to find another team.

Andy Reed was ridiculed here constantly and didn't win until he got better players, especially at QB.
Bill never won squat without top players.
The Bucs coaching staff was considered the 3 Stooges until they got enough players and then they won it all in spite of the coaching. Unfortunately, the coaching staff came down to earth and ended the Bucs next season just short of the SB.
Look at the coaches who won with PEDton Manning.

Why not trust Bill when he says it's a players game because it sure as hell isn't about coaching. The proof of that has been playing out right before our eyes for many years now.

 

[1960Pats]

This reminds me of Winston Churchill leading Britian through WW2, then getting dumped right after the war ended.

Churchill was coming off of a win, not 3 years of losing.

 

[Tunescribe]

I was ready to move on from Bill after he dumped Brady, got nothing in return and had nobody to replace him. And now I'm moving on from the NYFL.

You should've just spared everyone your stale negativity and whimpering three years ago after Brady decided to move on. Bye. You will not be missed.

 

[Triumph]

I was ready to move on from Bill after he dumped Brady, got nothing in return and had nobody to replace him. And now I'm moving on from the NYFL.

That was crazy.

BB had Stidham next in line.

 

[Triumph]

Churchill was coming off of a win, not 3 years of losing.

Churchill saved his country and the world by convincing FDR to get involved in WW2.

 

[Tunescribe]

Churchill saved his country and the world by convincing FDR to get involved in WW2.

Right. Because Pearl Harbor and Hitler declaring war on the U.S. had nothing at all to do with it.

Your remedial education on most things -- history, government, football, where your butt is located, etc. -- is long, long overdue.

 

[Triumph]

Mac Jones needs a stud WR who can take the top off a defense.

Give the guy every chance to win.

 

[Wozzy]

You're an idiot.

Bruschi is correct, there is no NE WR that strikes fear in the hearts of defenses.

Edelman and Troy Brown never struck fear in the hearts of defenses either… but they sure hoisted a few Lombardi trophies.

Trivia question: how many rings do Randy Moss, Julio Jones, Deandre Hopkins, and Larry Fitzgerald possess?

 

[Wozzy]

Mac Jones needs a stud WR who can take the top off a defense.

Give the guy every chance to win.

Thornton is 6’3 and runs a 4.2 forty… they are.