The future of Matt Patricia

[Rob0729]

So maybe Kraft really *is* taking the full Red Sox PR route after all……

In fairness to Kraft, I think Bedard meant this would happen for any team. It is just stuff that no one wants to be the source of an actual story even off the record because if they are found out, it would be their job. At least that is how I took it. Sorta how the Jim Irsay spending an uncomfortable amount of time in Josh McDaniels' john didn't come out until like five years later.

 

[venecol]

I'm not "peddling" ANYTHING. It's a simple explanation that fits the facts. God, why to always make things so personal. You can't be THAT angry all the time.

Maybe peddling was too strong a word. I've just seen you post this several times on several threads. Lol, I'm not angry.

Who CARES what "other people" think of Bill's decisions. One of the major reasons that the Pats have been able to maintain the unprecedented success we as fans got to savor was BECAUSE Bill went against the prevailing attitudes and strategies of the league. Why did we win SO many games when we didn't have the most talented roster on the field? AND now I'M getting angry so let's get to your next point.

Well everyone was right in this case. Some times listening to ppl outside your circle isn't such a bad thing. Being surrounded by "Yes" men is definitely not a good thing. At least we agree that it was Bill's arrogance that drove this.

Every day Billion dollar organizations ALSO decide, after making a personnel decision, that they are willing to WAIT a short time to get the guy they WANT rather than take the guy that happens to be available. Happens in Million $ organizations too.

Sure, after weighing the pros and cons of such a decision. Do you really believe that having your franchise-QB regress in such a dramatic fashion that he's running around frantic yelling and tripping was a warranted down-side to this decision? People (friends of Bill) were calling for his benching. There was disturbances in the locker room. Players were calling out coaches! You think that all of those things were A-OK so you can wait a year for your "guy?" Is BoB Jesus F Christ reborn?

Finally, it is fair and your right to believe that they SHOULD have just gone and tried to get the next best option when they found out BOB was going to be unavailable for 2022. BUT you have to acknowledge that you believe they could do better than BOB. So please make that clear when you slam what Bill did. That's YOUR opinion, in a world where only BB's opinion counts. And BILL, for whatever reasons, want BOB. No offense, but I'll takes Bill's opinion over yours, mine, or anyone else's, on football matters. Also I left an open question asking what would you do differently?

Yes, I believe if the Pats hire the best competent qualified OC that $$$ can buy, they could've had a much better season. At the very least, we could've seen where and how Mac developed. That alone would've been worth the risk.

Now it is easy to just say, "anything but what happened". 20/20 hindsight is ALWAYS easy. Who was out there that YOU thought would be a better long term replacement for Josh? BTW- part 2 of that question would be, IF over the next 3 years BOB's proves to be in the top 10, does it change your mind about Bill's decision for 2022?

I'll leave that to the professionals. I'm not qualified to assess the level of OC candidates. A good man needs to know his limitations.

I hope BOB is succesful, but no, it wouldn't change my opinion of Bill's decision. To me, assuming your premise is correct (which I don't agree with), it makes his decision even worse. It says that he willingly threw away a year of development of the highly recruited QB over his man-crush over a future OC. That's really really bad.

 

[Kasmir]

This report from the Shrine bowl...

As NESN’s Zack Cox pointed out, [Steve]Belichick and his wife are expecting their fourth child. So that would probably explain why he won’t be making the trip.

...opens up the possibility that in 25 years or so -- assuming Bill's other children are equally prolific -- we could have an All-Belichick coaching staff!

 

[patfanken]

Well everyone was right in this case. Some times listening to ppl outside your circle isn't such a bad thing. Being surrounded by "Yes" men is definitely not a good thing. At least we agree that it was Bill's arrogance that drove this..

No we DON'T agree at all. This has NOTHING to do with "arrogance. This was a personnel decision on what was best for the organization long term (long term meaning the next 2-4 years) plain and simple. So let's get that straight on the outset.

Bill decided that it was better to wait for a known quantity than to take as shot at the relatively unknown, long term. BOB was who he wanted and he was willing to risk a step back this year to get him. That is NOT an easy decision for a guy with limited years left. But STILL he made it.

I'm fine with you disagreeing. Maybe going with plan B WOULD have ended up a better long term plan, but we'll never know. I'm even fine with hating on Bill for the decision, but this has nothing to do with ARROGANCE, but rather all about being a long term football decision that had a short term setback.

If BOB has a great next 3 years success with steady improvement, would you say it was worth it? How often do we see teams absorb a short term setback and gain long term from the strategy. THIS past year the Pats were a playoff contender all season, but no one would have suggested they were a CHAMPIONSHIP contender.

At any rate I'm done with the topic. Glad you're no angry and hope you can see this a long term move. Whether it works out or not only time will tell.

 

[venecol]

No we DON'T agree at all. This has NOTHING to do with "arrogance. This was a personnel decision on what was best for the organization long term (long term meaning the next 2-4 years) plain and simple. So let's get that straight on the outset.

Bill decided that it was better to wait for a known quantity than to take as shot at the relatively unknown, long term. BOB was who he wanted and he was willing to risk a step back this year to get him. That is NOT an easy decision for a guy with limited years left. But STILL he made it.

I'm fine with you disagreeing. Maybe going with plan B WOULD have ended up a better long term plan, but we'll never know. I'm even fine with hating on Bill for the decision, but this has nothing to do with ARROGANCE, but rather all about being a long term football decision that had a short term setback.

If BOB has a great next 3 years success with steady improvement, would you say it was worth it? How often do we see teams absorb a short term setback and gain long term from the strategy. THIS past year the Pats were a playoff contender all season, but no one would have suggested they were a CHAMPIONSHIP contender.

At any rate I'm done with the topic. Glad you're no angry and hope you can see this a long term move. Whether it works out or not only time will tell.

Again, what is the basis for your assertion that this was Bill's plan all along? Do you have anything to back this up or is this just your opinion?

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

thanks, I wasn't sure.

BTW- faced with the situation I outlined previously, what would you have done for the 2022 OC?

It’s fan fiction. There was no “one year until Bill O’Brien” scenario. It’s merely retroactively ball washing Belichick, much like the absurd take that Bill knew in 2020 that he would draft Mac Jones the next year.

But even if it were true (which it isn’t) it implies:

1. Continuity for a young QB with his OC is less important than disrupting continuity and pairing him with (a year later, as "designed") Bill O’Brien, who is suddenly a genius again and the only guy who can do this right (ridiculous).

2. There were no alternative options, for a multi-billion dollar franchise with a geenyus runnng the show than to hire a running punchline for a year. No one else could have done it for a year. They couldn't have hired a promising OC to test the waters and see if that worked; no, they had to hire Patricia (ridiculous.)

Every team in the NFL has coaches or players that might be available the next year but not this year. When other teams have one-year failures, we laugh at them. Only on PatsFans.com do you see these crazy takes that the organization intentionally hired someone as a one-and-done because they're really, really crafty.

 

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

I think it is reasonable to think that a year ago Bill wanted BOB and could not get him, but BOB said to keep him in mind after his commitment to Alabama was up.

With no way to get BOB, Bill then had to decide on his the second best option. Which was probably a) a multi-year commitment to someone outside or unproven, a person that he clearly liked less than BOB, or b) a one year commitment to an internal candidate, genuinely HOPING that it would work out. Somehow fat Matt talked him into it, I guess.

Was Bill wanting that internal choice, Matt, to be just a one year placeholder? Of course not. Was BOB just waiting in the wings a year? Of course not, as all sorts of offers could come BOB's way.

I guess he didn't like his choices but made the one he could get out from under sooner, if it didn't work out.

 

[venecol]

I think it is reasonable to think that a year ago Bill wanted BOB and could not get him, but BOB said to keep him in mind after his commitment to Alabama was up.

With no way to get BOB, Bill then had to decide on his the second best option. Which was probably a) a multi-year commitment to someone outside or unproven, a person that he clearly liked less than BOB, or b) a one year commitment to an internal candidate, genuinely HOPING that it would work out. Somehow fat Matt talked him into it, I guess.

Was Bill wanting that internal choice, Matt, to be just a one year placeholder? Of course not. Was BOB just waiting in the wings a year? Of course not, as all sorts of offers could come BOB's way.

I guess he didn't like his choices but made the one he could get out from under sooner, if it didn't work out.

That's a terrible plan, if true.

 

[bigballas]

he will be in a corner office at Patriot Place putting together spreadsheets for BB.

by corner office do you mean Cupcake Charlies?

 

[Zuma]

by corner office do you mean Cupcake Charlies?

 

[Dingleberry]

BB is a genius. To those doubters...

You can't understand the moves if you don't understand the game...

That means you @venecol. Show some respect.

 

[RIpats88]

C'mon we really believe Bill B wasted a year of Mac Jones development just so he could wait for Bill O'Brien?

 

[RIpats88]

FWIW, Bedard and other reporters (off the air) are saying that things with Patricia and Judge were far worse tha reported, but it seems no one wants to say anything about. Bedard said this is the type of stuff that only gets out after people leave the organization.

Wonder what he means?

 

[signbabybrady]

This report from the Shrine bowl...

...opens up the possibility that in 25 years or so -- assuming Bill's other children are equally prolific -- we could have an All-Belichick coaching staff!

Signgrandbabybelichick!

 

[IcyPatriot]

 

[ralmat55]

Enough of this BOB wasn’t available last off-season nonsense. It’s revisionary to rationalize failure.

Adrian Klemm is under contract to Oregon. You don’t think he can’t get out of it if the Pats offer him a position. Just like he got out of his Steelers contract last year to go to Oregon.

Yes, but …, Billy and Nicky hold contracts to a high degree of sanctity. Bill was under contract to the Jets when he resigned to orchestrate his exit to the Pats. Nick was under contract to the Browns when he left for Michigan State where he was under contract when he left for LSU where he was under contract when he left for the Dolphins where he was under contract when he left for Alabama. Just utter nonsense,

Bill thought good coaches can coach anywhere. He thought Matt Patricia was a good coach and could strengthen his resume by coaching the offense. Bill was wrong on all counts. No apologies needed just fix it which he’s doing with or without the owner’s prodding. I’m betting on Bill feeling a little chastened if not humbled and determined to right the ship and finish his coaching career strong.

 

[Ring 6]

No we DON'T agree at all. This has NOTHING to do with "arrogance. This was a personnel decision on what was best for the organization long term (long term meaning the next 2-4 years) plain and simple. So let's get that straight on the outset.

Bill decided that it was better to wait for a known quantity than to take as shot at the relatively unknown, long term. BOB was who he wanted and he was willing to risk a step back this year to get him. That is NOT an easy decision for a guy with limited years left. But STILL he made it.

I'm fine with you disagreeing. Maybe going with plan B WOULD have ended up a better long term plan, but we'll never know. I'm even fine with hating on Bill for the decision, but this has nothing to do with ARROGANCE, but rather all about being a long term football decision that had a short term setback.

If BOB has a great next 3 years success with steady improvement, would you say it was worth it? How often do we see teams absorb a short term setback and gain long term from the strategy. THIS past year the Pats were a playoff contender all season, but no one would have suggested they were a CHAMPIONSHIP contender.

At any rate I'm done with the topic. Glad you're no angry and hope you can see this a long term move. Whether it works out or not only time will tell.

I think I would phrase it a little differently.

McDaniels left. Belichick needed to fill his spot.
His first choice was BOB, but BOB was unavailable. No other candidates impressed him, so he decided to use a OC by committee approach. Something that has worked well for him in both sides of the ball in the past.
Run that way now then bring in BOB next year.
Judge was available to coach the QBs. Belichick is on record praising judge consistently over the years, calling him
a great coach and literally saying “Joe Judge could coach any position on the field”.
Patricia, one of his most trusted employees ever, started out as an OL coach, so he moved him there.
Within the framework of a system developed over 20+ years, he gave play calling duties to his trusted long time employee.

Over 50% of the coaching hires in the NFL end up as failures. To think that just because we are Patriots fans that every hire must be successful or it’s the most egregious, negligent and stupid move ever made is silly.

It’s funny because the mantra on this board has been “some people think everything belichick ever did was right” when in reality those people understand that many bad decisions are made by everyone who makes decisions in the NFL and the bar is always being right, it’s being right more often than the competition.

 

[Ring 6]

Enough of this BOB wasn’t available last off-season nonsense. It’s revisionary to rationalize failure.

Adrian Klemm is under contract to Oregon. You don’t think he can’t get out of it if the Pats offer him a position. Just like he got out of his Steelers contract last year to go to Oregon.

Yes, but …, Billy and Nicky hold contracts to a high degree of sanctity. Bill was under contract to the Jets when he resigned to orchestrate his exit to the Pats. Nick was under contract to the Browns when he left for Michigan State where he was under contract when he left for LSU where he was under contract when he left for the Dolphins where he was under contract when he left for Alabama. Just utter nonsense,

Bill thought good coaches can coach anywhere. He thought Matt Patricia was a good coach and could strengthen his resume by coaching the offense. Bill was wrong on all counts. No apologies needed just fix it which he’s doing with or without the owner’s prodding. I’m betting on Bill feeling a little chastened if not humbled and determined to right the ship and finish his coaching career strong.

BOB wanted to honor his contract at Alabama. Why is that difficult to understand?

 

[venecol]

I think I would phrase it a little differently.

McDaniels left. Belichick needed to fill his spot.
His first choice was BOB, but BOB was unavailable. No other candidates impressed him, so he decided to use a OC by committee approach. Something that has worked well for him in both sides of the ball in the past.
Run that way now then bring in BOB next year.
Judge was available to coach the QBs. Belichick is on record praising judge consistently over the years, calling him
a great coach and literally saying “Joe Judge could coach any position on the field”.
Patricia, one of his most trusted employees ever, started out as an OL coach, so he moved him there.
Within the framework of a system developed over 20+ years, he gave play calling duties to his trusted long time employee.

Over 50% of the coaching hires in the NFL end up as failures. To think that just because we are Patriots fans that every hire must be successful or it’s the most egregious, negligent and stupid move ever made is silly.

It’s funny because the mantra on this board has been “some people think everything belichick ever did was right” when in reality those people understand that many bad decisions are made by everyone who makes decisions in the NFL and the bar is always being right, it’s being right more often than the competition.

Thanks for agreeing that it was Bill's arrogance that drove the decision. The simplest answer is usually the correct answer.

 

[40yrpatsfan]

I think I would phrase it a little differently.

McDaniels left. Belichick needed to fill his spot.
His first choice was BOB, but BOB was unavailable. No other candidates impressed him, so he decided to use a OC by committee approach. Something that has worked well for him in both sides of the ball in the past.
Run that way now then bring in BOB next year.
Judge was available to coach the QBs. Belichick is on record praising judge consistently over the years, calling him
a great coach and literally saying “Joe Judge could coach any position on the field”.
Patricia, one of his most trusted employees ever, started out as an OL coach, so he moved him there.
Within the framework of a system developed over 20+ years, he gave play calling duties to his trusted long time employee.

Over 50% of the coaching hires in the NFL end up as failures. To think that just because we are Patriots fans that every hire must be successful or it’s the most egregious, negligent and stupid move ever made is silly.

It’s funny because the mantra on this board has been “some people think everything belichick ever did was right” when in reality those people understand that many bad decisions are made by everyone who makes decisions in the NFL and the bar is always being right, it’s being right more often than the competition.

This is the most likely explanation of what happened and why. Not every experiment works out.

Even with all the rough sledding, we would have made the playoffs had the refs in Las Vegas made the right call. We also had some tough injury luck throughout the year on offense.