Bill Belichick: Highest Paid Coach in North American Sports at $20m per

[All3Phases]

The bucs added a quarterback in brady... do you understand that? Good. Then the odds of winning the sb dropped dramatically. You understand that? What does that tell you about the quality of that roster? That the only thing they needed was a qb to dramatically change their chances to win it all. Do you understand that? It was adding Brady to an offense that totaled 5100 receiving yards... what did them in in 2019 was the 30 ints ... which under brady you knew were going to get at the very least cut in half...

do you understand any of this? These are fairly simple concepts...

Right, you just choose to ignore it when it goes the other way, which is the point...You choose to look at an awful team, that suddenly became a wagon with a quarterback. Where as, the same exact thing wouldve happened if you plop Brady on the Patriots...You see how lazy that analysis is? Would you say the 2022 Patriots are a loaded roster just in need of a quarterback?

No, I didnt miss it. I ignored un-sourced rumors that make for good clickbait. and Ian Oconnor? wasnt he the guy who wrote "The Patriots will regret hiring Belichick"?

So you agree I didnt make it up

yeah... so there's that...

and we may agree qb is the most important position, but i wasnt the one who said the rebuild was over when there are very definite concerns that Mac is going to be the guy...

Theres a lot of teams in the NFL currently rebuilding then

have a nice day

you too!

 

[All3Phases]

What are you talking about? We all know they were up against the cap that year. You gave me a 4 year period when they had much more maneuvering ability.

Here, look at this: 15 biggest salary cap hits for the Patriots in 2020, including Tom Brady and Antonio Brown

Also, consider what happened in 2020. The Covid pandemic caused an even bigger contraction. 2020 became a lost year since the salary cap contracted by $20m. It's for this very reason that the Patriots were able to land a player like Judon because so many of the other teams were strapped.

Here's another article: A LOSING FORMULA: Patriots salary-cap problems begin with the draft

I'm not sure why this is even a mystery. Go back and look at the Super Bowl roster, and then check to see what happened to all those vets making big salaries by 2020. They were off the team. We were looking at big dead cap hits. You can just look at the rosters and tick the players off one by one.

They COULD HAVE made salary cap space, by signing those players to longer team deals and pushing their salaries into the future. They chose not to do that. They chose to bite the bullet instead.

I gave you the spending by year, that included 2019 and 2020. Not sure what youre missing. You dont have to count 2016 if you dont want to, look at the other years.

Here's another article: A LOSING FORMULA: Patriots salary-cap problems begin with the draft

This is you agreeing with me btw

 

[Joker]

never ceases to amaze ...the willingness to engage in all this revisionist nonsense...

 

[StrawHatPatriot]

Go back and watch that game. Peyton was a better QB than Brady then. He would do better. Brady did not have a great game.

I got 2013 wrong. I meant 2015. we played and lost to them in both years.

I did watch the game. Brady was great in the 2nd half. And you're doing 2 things:

You're acting like 2001 Peyton was the same as 04 Peyton, which he wasn't

And you're ignoring that again, that game was in a blizzard... Peyton used to suck in the snow...

And lastly, Peyton would be throwing to David Patten and Bethel Johnson instead of Marvin Harrison

 

[Pape]

Right, you just choose to ignore it when it goes the other way, which is the point...You choose to look at an awful team, that suddenly became a wagon with a quarterback. Where as, the same exact thing wouldve happened if you plop Brady on the Patriots...You see how lazy that analysis is? Would you say the 2022 Patriots are a loaded roster just in need of a quarterback?

So you agree I didnt make it up

Theres a lot of teams in the NFL currently rebuilding then

you too!

I chose to ignore Ian O'Connor because of all the crap he's written. The quote you are hanging your hat on is unattributed to anyone. So is it really a quote? Yeah... Not so sure 'bout that...

But you choose to ignore exactly how much talent was in Tampa prior to Brady arriving there. Tampa wasn't awful. Jaemis Winston was awful.

 

[captain stone]

You don't win a championship without Sony. He wasn't a bust.

No indeed he wasn't... But you win a championship even easier with Nick Chubb.

 

[Steve102]

never ceases to amaze ...the willingness to engage in all this revisionist nonsense...

 

[StrawHatPatriot]

starr lasted 16 seasons
montana 15
marino 17

so longevity plays its role... its not like all that those guys accomplished happened in a decade or less...Lombardi was out green bay a year after their last super bowl... and out of the NFL three years after his last super bowl... and Landry did not win multiple nfl championships without staubach... Danny white, the heir apparent was a veteran player who had 4 seasons on the bench behind staubach before he became the starter... development time, no? a luxury not really afforded to modern day nfl teams given free agency and the cost to keep players who have shown flashed of talent... where as before worst case scenario was Plan B...

so, pretty words you type... but ultimately that say you don't actually know what you are talking about...

so Brady won without Bill... great for him ... he went to a team that had all the pieces in place... Tom had to do exactly what? play football. which we all know hes great at...

What has Bill had to do? Replace the, as everyone says, the Goat. Not an easy task. would it be fair to say a much more complicated task? I think it would. Rebuilding a team is more difficult in the modern era because the NFL has tilted the playing field towards parity... While BB has made mistakes, what coach hasn't? What front office hasn't?

You offer just another shallow analysis with no thought to the complexities of running an organization.

so If BB wants to be here, he will be here. RKK knows exactly what an unstable front office means to an organization. and spending 60 million over three seasons while BB chases down Shula with 9 or 10 wins a season? Thats not even ten percent of the Ownership haul of the TV contracts let alone all the other revenue streams generated by an NFL franchise... Chump change for a coach/gm that oversaw the Patriots growing from one of the least valuable franchises to the second most valuable NFL franchise

Talk about pretty words...

Yes, Starr, Montana, and Marino lasted long. (And we criticize Shula for not winning with Marino anyway).

I'm talking about the coaches time with them.

For instance, Shanahan had Elway for 5 years. Won 2 chips. If he had Elway for 18 years, how much could he have won?

I'm not saying Belichick has an easy job. I'm not saying he can't make mistakes. I'm just saying it's hard to use the "he won 6 rings" argument when all of that was clearly tied to 1 guy. I'm not saying Belichick should have been winning 5 rings without Tom. But again:

When mediocre coaches that we make fun of like Rex Ryan, Lovie Smith, Mike Zimmer, etc. Can take mediocre or bad QBs to conference title games, it looks bad that Belichick hasn't really come close to doing that, let alone surpassing that since he's supposed to be the GOAT.

You say Brady went to Tampa and they were stacked. You say all he has to do is play, ignoring that plenty teams have stacked rosters on paper and fall short. Lots of preseason favorites or even regular season favorites go one and done. I'm not gonna act like Brady had an extremely hard situation, but to win in his first year with a new system and no preseason is still impressive.

 

[Boomer B]

Yes of course absolutely I agree with all the facts you mentioned also.

I just feel like this season is all for nothing. What real progression was made? Only positives were the rookies made a real impact, most notably Marcus Jones. Wich is a great thing going forward.

We need some games breakers, the 3rd and 4th tier WR era is a thing of the past. We need bona-fide studs. I would like to make a trade for Hopkins.. his deal is reasonable. Also on defense trade for Ramsey, BB his defenses always had that lock down corner.

Trades for guys like Ramsey and Hopkins require a large amount of draft capital (and money). You also need the opposing team to want to get rid of those players and how they would fit on your team.

Why would Hopkins or Ramsey want to come here with the dysfunction this team has shown this year? The Rams don’t build through the draft, they build through FA and trades. Why would they want to get rid of Ramsey?

We could sit here all day throwing out all pro names we’d like to see here but it’s not really logical to think it would happen.

 

[PatsFan2]

No indeed he wasn't... But you win a championship even easier with Nick Chubb.

And Chubb would still be on this current Patriots Team.

 

[All3Phases]

I chose to ignore Ian O'Connor because of all the crap he's written. The quote you are hanging your hat on is unattributed to anyone. So is it really a quote? Yeah... Not so sure 'bout that...

You can ignore whatever youd like

But you choose to ignore exactly how much talent was in Tampa prior to Brady arriving there. Tampa wasn't awful. Jaemis Winston was awful.

I didnt ignore it, you say it was talent because they won a super bowl...They were as talented as the Jags before Brady signed , according to various Betting sites...Again, you just are voicing your opinion on the roster, which is fine...But again, would you say the same about the 2022 Patriots? Why arent they loaded? With Brady this is a super bowl contender...Same thing right?

 

[PatsFan2]

Trades for guys like Ramsey and Hopkins require a large amount of draft capital (and money). You also need the opposing team to want to get rid of those players and how they would fit on your team.

Why would Hopkins or Ramsey want to come here with the dysfunction this team has shown this year? The Rams don’t build through the draft, they build through FA and trades. Why would they want to get rid of Ramsey?

We could sit here all day throwing out all pro names we’d like to see here but it’s not really logical to think it would happen.

I would love Hopkins here for even two years he'll be 31 I like the original thought he can still ball at a high level in this league. I hope he doesn't go off on us Monday night.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I was hoping you would end your post with And please don't call me Shirley...

I thought about it!

 

[venecol]

This thread is all over the place. On Manning winning 6 SB w/ Belichick. Does this assume Manning would've spent 20 years playing in the snow in NE? He would have taken Bill's hard coaching, team friendly contracts? Come on, he would've been gone after his rookie season.

On Bill's tenure. There just aren't very many HCs that have stayed in the game into their 70s. Here's a list of some of the oldest coaches in NFL history:

1. Bruce Arians: retired at 69 (1 SB). Oldest coach to ever win a SB.
2. **** Vermeil: retired at 69 (1 SB).
3. Tom Coughlin: retired at 69 (2 SB).
4. Bill Belichick: 70, active (6 SB). Record in his 70s: 6-6, no playoffs yet.
5. Gunther Cunningham: retired at 71 as an Assistant. Only 2 years as HC.
6. Al Saunders: retired at 71 as Sr. Off assistant. HC with SD in the 80s.
7. Pete Carroll: 71, active (1 SB). Record in his 70s: 14-15, no playoffs yet.
8. Marv Levy: retired at 72.4 years. Record in his 70s: 26-22, Playoffs: 1-2. Last season: 6-10
9. George Halas: retired at 72.9 years. (6 NFL Champions). Record in his 70s: 21-18-3, no playoffs. Last season: 7-6-1
10. Romeo Crennel: retired at 73.6 years breaking Halas' 53 year old record when he was made interim HC in 2020. Record in his 70s: 4-8.

Other notable coaches (age when retired): Don Shula (65), Tom Landry (64), Curly Lambeau (55), Paul Brown (67), Marty Schottenheimer (63), Chuck Noll (59), Dan Reeves (59), Chuck Knox (62), Vince Lombardi (56), Joe Gibbs (67), Bill Parcells (65), Mike Shanahan (61), Mike Holmgren (61).

There's only been 5 HC that were active in their 70s (if we include Crennel). Their combined records in their 70s: 71-69-3. Playoff records: 1-2 (Levy).

​

I think the main reason for these coaches not making it to their 70s is the generational gap. Currently, Belichick (Boomer I) is 4 generations removed from his younger players (Generation Z). The differences between these generations just makes it difficult for the players to relate to their coach. We know Bill isn't a SM guy, which is so important to the younger players. Hell, even Tomlin (50) said he's getting into SM so he can better relate to his players. We've seen the disconnect between players and coaches. We've seen so many examples of un-Patriot like behavior by players in recent years.

Frankly, it's just time to move on. The sooner the better because it's just going to get worse once the last of the old guard players (McCourty & Slater) retire since they've served as the translators between Bill's Way and the modern ways.

 

[Pape]

You can ignore whatever youd like

I didnt ignore it, you say it was talent because they won a super bowl...They were as talented as the Jags before Brady signed , according to various Betting sites...Again, you just are voicing your opinion on the roster, which is fine...But again, would you say the same about the 2022 Patriots? Why arent they loaded? With Brady this is a super bowl contender...Same thing right?

wait what?

2019 tampa vs 2019 jaguars?

so you would equate dj chark & chris conley to mike williams & chris godwin? a tampa team that had 5100 (+/-) passing yards vs a team that had 4000 (+/-) passing yards? one team with a 9 point differential to a team with a -97 point differential? a team that scored 449 points vs a team that scored 361? A team that gave up 1100 yards rushing (+/-) to a team that gave of 2200 (+/-) yards rushing? All that offensive output despite a qb that threw 30 ints (seven of which were pick-6's)?

you sure this is an argument you want to make?

And why aren't the Patriots loaded? i dont have a 100% sure fire answer for you... never claimed to either... If I did I'd be working in Foxboro...
Maybe the front office mis-read the needs of the team?
Maybe it was the team not adding free agent depth in the off season?
Maybe its the loss of coaching talent in the off season?
Maybe its the boneheaded decision BB has made with Patricia?
Maybe its because Patricia runs an easily predictable offense?
Maybe its the loss of talent/depth because of free agency?
Maybe its the regression of the QB in year 2?
Maybe its the lack of skill and position coaches?
Maybe its injuries?
Maybe its bad calls?
Maybe its lazy play by some players because they are/were upset?
Maybe other teams can get better too?

Take any one of those, or all of them...

But remember - each and every one of those issues are the difference between what BB has to contend with day in day out versus what a player has to deal with... And all are correctable one way or another... That's why the rebuild is still a work in progress... So while we are no longer in the pole position, we still are playing meaningful games.

 

[Pape]

I'm not gonna act like Brady had an extremely hard situation, but to win in his first year with a new system and no preseason is still impressive.

I never said it wasn't.

 

[Grogan14]

No indeed he wasn't... But you win a championship even easier with Nick Chubb.

Or contend year in year out for a decade with Lamar Jackson

 

[All3Phases]

wait what?

2019 tampa vs 2019 jaguars?

Again, their odds to win the 2020 super bowl before Brady signed was about the same...Your opinion on the roster is just that. You are obsessed with the eye candy of the receivers, without realizing the team sucked before he got there.

so you would equate dj chark & chris conley to mike williams & chris godwin? a tampa team that had 5100 (+/-) passing yards vs a team that had 4000 (+/-) passing yards? one team with a 9 point differential to a team with a -97 point differential? a team that scored 449 points vs a team that scored 361? A team that gave up 1100 yards rushing (+/-) to a team that gave of 2200 (+/-) yards rushing? All that offensive output despite a qb that threw 30 ints (seven of which were pick-6's)?

Do yards equate to being a good team? Remember when you didnt care about meaningless stats and only results?

you sure this is an argument you want to make?

I am making the argument that they were a team nobody thought was good until Brady joined them, he couldve went 20 different places and you wouldve said the same, including here.

And why aren't the Patriots loaded? i dont have a 100% sure fire answer for you... never claimed to either... If I did I'd be working in Foxboro...
Maybe the front office mis-read the needs of the team?
Maybe it was the team not adding free agent depth in the off season?
Maybe its the loss of coaching talent in the off season?
Maybe its the boneheaded decision BB has made with Patricia?
Maybe its because Patricia runs an easily predictable offense?
Maybe its the loss of talent/depth because of free agency?
Maybe its the regression of the QB in year 2?
Maybe its the lack of skill and position coaches?
Maybe its injuries?
Maybe its bad calls?
Maybe its lazy play by some players because they are/were upset?
Maybe other teams can get better too?

This is irrelevant to my argument. In 2021, they had the 2nd ranked defense and 6th ranked offense in the league, imagine adding a super star qb to that!

 

[All3Phases]

You say Brady went to Tampa and they were stacked. You say all he has to do is play, ignoring that plenty teams have stacked rosters on paper and fall short. Lots of preseason favorites or even regular season favorites go one and done. I'm not gonna act like Brady had an extremely hard situation, but to win in his first year with a new system and no preseason is still impressive.

I just think its funny that everybody in the fanbase starts caring about individual talent, when they were a poor team...We used to make fun of Peyton and Marvin Harrison, etc and say enjoy your points and stats while we win games...Now the meaningless stats equate to loaded rosters...Guess what, Denver is loaded, how are they doing? The Patriots in 2021 were a top 2 defense and top 6 offense...How much better do you want? So many teams have talent, that we forgot about the intangibles it takes to win

 

[jdlboot14]

With the economy sliding harder into recession, and BB's exorbitant price, does Kraft come to a mutual "parting" with BB this offseason?
If so, can he woo Payton from the grasp of Jerry? That's the only guy I'd want to take over right now.
If not him, then I want BB to agree to a 2yr succession plan with Mayo as DC/HC-in waiting, and a legit new blood OC.