Ringer Article: Will Bill Belichick’s Big Coaching Gamble Backfire?

[Ring 6]

You and I never disagreed that the offense will mainly be the same...I said the difference this year was the streamlining of the verbiage and simplifying, which hasnt happened before (New coaches) and that they're adding in a new scheme, which they havent done in at least this decade. Thats two things that arent done every season. Nothing I have said has been wrong, you keep spinning it to say its the same as every year, except all the players are telling you its different, along with everybody who has watched practice.

If you know the scheme better than Edelman, then god bless you

Streamlining the terminology happens in a regular basis. I never said it happens every year, but it is normal and not unusual, it just happened in defense. They are not simplifying the offense.
They are not adding a new scheme. They are keeping the same scheme they have had for 20 years and making typical adjustments like they do every year. You misunderstanding the comments made by players doesn’t make wrong right .

 

[All3Phases]

Streamlining the terminology happens in a regular basis. I never said it happens every year, but it is normal and not unusual, it just happened in defense. They are not simplifying the offense.

You said its changes made every year, my point, was the changes that are happening this year are a direct effect of a new (inexperienced) coaching staff. Streamlining and simplifying doesn't happen if McDaniel's is still here. We agree on that right?

They are not adding a new scheme. They are keeping the same scheme they have had for 20 years and making typical adjustments like they do every year. You misunderstanding the comments made by players doesn’t make wrong right .

Not sure how I could misunderstand basically every beat reporter watching practice every day, Isiah Wynn, Bourne, and Edleman. How can a receiver, who mastered the offense here, walk into a practice 1 year after retiring and have no idea whats going on? Now, if they are so poor at running it, that they dont take it to gameday...That is a different story.

 

[Ring 6]

You said its changes made every year, my point, was the changes that are happening this year are a direct effect of a new (inexperienced) coaching staff. Streamlining and simplifying doesn't happen if McDaniel's is still here. We agree on that right?

Not sure how I could misunderstand basically every beat reporter watching practice every day, Isiah Wynn, Bourne, and Edleman. How can a receiver, who mastered the offense here, walk into a practice 1 year after retiring and have no idea whats going on? Now, if they are so poor at running it, that they dont take it to gameday...That is a different story.

There is no simplifying. Streamlining the terminology natural occurs when coaching staff changes occur, so the timing is natural and not significant.

I’m not sure how you can either but you are. Probably because you misrepresented it, like you did 3 times now with Edelman. Do you want to show me the quote where he “walked into practice and had no idea what’s going on?” Because that is not close to what he said. See this is really the issue. You search for quotes to support the argument you capriciously made and refuse to back down from and blow them up to mean something they don’t.
At least you have started moving the goalposts to cover yourself that when the offense looks just like it always has with a few typical changes you can say “see I acknowledged it would be the same because it didn’t work”. This is why you are a troll

 

[All3Phases]

There is no simplifying. Streamlining the terminology natural occurs when coaching staff changes occur, so the timing is natural and not significant.

Do you attend practice as much as the people telling us that there is simplifying of the offense? Should be an easy question.

Maybe I misinterpreted this quote from your starting Left Tackle? “It’s definitely simplified,” said tackle Trent Brown. “I feel like it’ll make it able for the playmakers to play faster and allow us up front to play faster as well.”

I’m not sure how you can either but you are. Probably because you misrepresented it, like you did 3 times now with Edelman. Do you want to show me the quote where he “walked into practice and had no idea what’s going on?” Because that is not close to what he said. See this is really the issue. You search for quotes to support the argument you capriciously made and refuse to back down from and blow them up to mean something they don’t.
At least you have started moving the goalposts to cover yourself that when the offense looks just like it always has with a few typical changes you can say “see I acknowledged it would be the same because it didn’t work”. This is why you are a troll

I havent misinterpreted anything. Youve been switching my stance on this for months. Here is Edelmans quote about practice. "I went to a practice recently, the joint practice with (Las Vegas) and New England, and I saw a lot of concepts that I didn't really recognize". How can that be misinterpreted?

Which goal post have I moved? You said these changes are made every year...Now all of a sudden you agree with me that streamlining the playbook doesn't happen every year. You are still stuck on the fact that you think they aren't trying to implement any different scheme onto the offense though, despite what literally everybody is telling you after watching camp. Again, How does Edelman walk into practice, and not recognize a lot of concepts that the Patriots are running? Its all the same right?

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

I completely agree that the Ringer article was a bit of a hit piece (although a thought provoking one), and I agree with you that it is silly to say that BB doesn't care about winning like the article implies.

That said..I'm not sure if it is such a binary type of thing, either you want to win or work with people you enjoy working with. Ideally, if you have been successful enough to have the choice, at a certain stage of your career you want to win while working with people you enjoy working with, and BB is hardly the only successful NFL coach to hire his kids (Andy Reid, another coach successful enough to "do it his way" has done the same).

I don't really have any evidence or statistics (hello: calling BGC and other smart analysts for support or contrary evidence), but I just get the feeling that increasingly late in his career BB seems to work with coaches and players that are enjoyable to work with and coachable. It seems to me that BB doesn't bring in as many talented knuckleheads as he used to, especially with the players, more and more of which seem to be high character college captain types that would be enjoyable to coach. Again, I have no hard evidence, it is just a feeling. Any evidence pro or con would be appreciated

This is from 2017-18 I believe.

“I’m always amazed how he takes these non-stars and makes them stars. He takes these players that you haven’t really heard much about and all of a sudden they’re making great plays in the biggest games of the year,” Meyer said via Landof10.com. “I started asking him about it and he made this point to me and I shared it with our team. He said, ‘At this point in my career, I want to coach guys I like. I want to coach guys I want to be around and that’s it.’ He said, ‘I’m not going to coach anybody else.'”

I think there's a case to be made for sure but then you also have guys like Barmore, Jack Jones and others that need some tlc or work. That he's brought on. He's definitely taken less chances imo but still will take on gamble. Just isn't a regular anymore in that department.

 

[Ring 6]

Do you attend practice as much as the people telling us that there is simplifying of the offense? Should be an easy question.

Maybe I misinterpreted this quote from your starting Left Tackle? “It’s definitely simplified,” said tackle Trent Brown. “I feel like it’ll make it able for the playmakers to play faster and allow us up front to play faster as well.”

I havent misinterpreted anything. Youve been switching my stance on this for months. Here is Edelmans quote about practice. "I went to a practice recently, the joint practice with (Las Vegas) and New England, and I saw a lot of concepts that I didn't really recognize". How can that be misinterpreted?

Which goal post have I moved? You said these changes are made every year...Now all of a sudden you agree with me that streamlining the playbook doesn't happen every year. You are still stuck on the fact that you think they aren't trying to implement any different scheme onto the offense though, despite what literally everybody is telling you after watching camp. Again, How does Edelman walk into practice, and not recognize a lot of concepts that the Patriots are running? Its all the same right?

I never said streamlining terminology happens every year. I said at the outset it happened periodically and regularly and just happened on defense a couple of years ago.

You moved the goalpost to “if I’m wrong it’s just because it failed”.

 

[archstanton543]

Which one will block the other first, folks? Will it be Ring6 or All3Phases?

Stay tuned for more Insult Table Tennis!

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Which one will block the other first, folks? Will it be Ring6 or All3Phases?

Stay tuned for more Insult Table Tennis!

Ring6 has written that post about the offense 437 times this summer. Very consistent

 

[All3Phases]

I never said streamlining terminology happens every year. I said at the outset it happened periodically and regularly and just happened on defense a couple of years ago.

You refuse to acknowledge any player quotes that I’m “misinterpreting”. So now streamlining happens regularly, when is the last example of that happening on offense? It happened because of the coaching change. Which was my entire point.

To reiterate your point 1) They are not simplifying the offense--My retort- Based on everything we have read and quotes from players would disagree, also why would they streamline if the point of it was to not simplify it? Why wouldnt they leave the terminology the exact same as well?

Your point, 2) they are not adding a new scheme--Then what is every single beat writer talking about? Are they all braindead? Why does Edelman not recognize many concepts walking in on a practice 1 year after retirement?

You moved the goalpost to “if I’m wrong it’s just because it failed”.

Another misquote, coming from the guy who says I twist what he says. Classic all around.

 

[All3Phases]

Which one will block the other first, folks? Will it be Ring6 or All3Phases?

Stay tuned for more Insult Table Tennis!

I’d never block him

 

[Lavictoire]

"...(The trend of coaches hiring their direct family members has been criticized as a major factor in the persistent lack of diversity among NFL coaches.) And while most of the 31 other NFL teams have both offensive and defensive coordinators, the Patriots have nobody in either role, which seems like a convenient way to skirt the Rooney Rule requiring teams to interview minority candidates for coordinator positions...."

Here comes the social engineers and lawyers to fix the Patriots!

 

[PatsWSB47]

"...(The trend of coaches hiring their direct family members has been criticized as a major factor in the persistent lack of diversity among NFL coaches.) And while most of the 31 other NFL teams have both offensive and defensive coordinators, the Patriots have nobody in either role, which seems like a convenient way to skirt the Rooney Rule requiring teams to interview minority candidates for coordinator positions...."

Here comes the social engineers and lawyers to fix the Patriots!

White head coaches just need to have minority kids
Problem solved.

 

[The Boston Patriot]

Ringer Article: Will Bill Belichick’s Big Coaching Gamble Backfire?​

Talk about a bias right off the bat. The headline should have been:

Ringer Article: Will Bill Belichick’s Coaching Gamble Succeed?​

But that probably wouldn't have garnered enough clicks.

 

[Sicilian]

Ringer Article: Will Bill Belichick’s Big Coaching Gamble Backfire?​

Talk about a bias right off the bat. The headline should have been:

Ringer Article: Will Bill Belichick’s Coaching Gamble Succeed?​

But that probably wouldn't have garnered enough clicks.

Yeah, you could even go with something like, "Bill Belichick's Coaching Decisions are a Real Gamble", then use the article to outline the pros and cons and make it an analytical thing. But that clearly wasn't the intent here.

 

[Ring 6]

You refuse to acknowledge any player quotes that I’m “misinterpreting”. So now streamlining happens regularly, when is the last example of that happening on offense? It happened because of the coaching change. Which was my entire point.

To reiterate your point 1) They are not simplifying the offense--My retort- Based on everything we have read and quotes from players would disagree, also why would they streamline if the point of it was to not simplify it? Why wouldnt they leave the terminology the exact same as well?

Your point, 2) they are not adding a new scheme--Then what is every single beat writer talking about? Are they all braindead? Why does Edelman not recognize many concepts walking in on a practice 1 year after retirement?

Another misquote, coming from the guy who says I twist what he says. Classic all around.

Terminology is not “the offense”. I’ve explained this many times.

When they take the girls in Sunday everyone will recognize the scheme. It will look almost exactly like the scheme they have run for years, with maybe a few new wrinkles and possibly more emphasis on certain parts of the playbook.

Scarnechia has said they have always had these concepts. Edelman saying they were vanilla and not game planning doesn’t change that.

And yes you conveniently added that if everything you have been saying never happens it’s just because it didn’t work in practice indicating you will refuse to admit you are wrong.

 

[All3Phases]

Terminology is not “the offense”. I’ve explained this many times.

Irrelevant

When they take the girls in Sunday everyone will recognize the scheme. It will look almost exactly like the scheme they have run for years, with maybe a few new wrinkles and possibly more emphasis on certain parts of the playbook.

"Almost"- like they have added new concepts which has been widely reported for the last 4 months? I have never once disagreed that the totality of their offense would remain the same or similar

Scarnechia has said they have always had these concepts. Edelman saying they were vanilla and not game planning doesn’t change that.

What Scar says is true, What Edelman says is false. You again, did read the quote which I supplied...You chose a different one. What Trent Brown said is ignored, What Kendrick Bourne said is ignored. Why do you cherry pick?

And yes you conveniently added that if everything you have been saying never happens it’s just because it didn’t work in practice indicating you will refuse to admit you are wrong.

They have been practicing new offensive schemes and concepts, again unless every single beat reporter or football mind is creating this false narrative?...If they are bad at it and choose to not use it in game is not my problem or point. You simply refuse to acknowledge this is out of the ordinary from every other offseason. Again, you cant even answer when the last time they streamlined the playbook was, you said it happens regularly, find me one other time?

 

[Ring 6]

Irrelevant

"Almost"- like they have added new concepts which has been widely reported for the last 4 months? I have never once disagreed that the totality of their offense would remain the same or similar

What Scar says is true, What Edelman says is false. You again, did read the quote which I supplied...You chose a different one. What Trent Brown said is ignored, What Kendrick Bourne said is ignored. Why do you cherry pick?

They have been practicing new offensive schemes and concepts, again unless every single beat reporter or football mind is creating this false narrative?...If they are bad at it and choose to not use it in game is not my problem or point. You simply refuse to acknowledge this is out of the ordinary from every other offseason. Again, you cant even answer when the last time they streamlined the playbook was, you said it happens regularly, find me one other time?

They haven’t changed the offense. Cutting apart quotes, taking things out of context and twisting everything around doesn’t change that.
As soon as you stopped, thought, and realized I was right you came up with the “if they don’t do what I said it’s only because it failed in practice” whopper.

 

[All3Phases]

They haven’t changed the offense. Cutting apart quotes, taking things out of context and twisting everything around doesn’t change that.
As soon as you stopped, thought, and realized I was right you came up with the “if they don’t do what I said it’s only because it failed in practice” whopper.

You keep saying "changed the offense"...Before it was "not adding a new scheme". Which one is it? Probably because you change your POV every post, its hard to have a normal discussion. I havent moved any goal post, or covered for anything. I am telling you again, from the beginning I agreed that the majority of their offense will be the same or similar. They are practicing it for a reason though, if they dont use it immediately is not part of my point. But again, you want to deny all of the reports, quotes, etc that any changes even exist...That's on you bud

The cutting up quotes part is hilarious though, you just ignore them and make believe they werent said

“It’s definitely simplified,” said tackle Trent Brown. “I feel like it’ll make it able for the playmakers to play faster and allow us up front to play faster as well.”-Trent Brown on simplified offense.

Not sure how I can cut up the above, let alone the Edelman quote, seems like you just refuse to acknowledge theres a lot of change from one season to another

 

[Ring 6]

You keep saying "changed the offense"...Before it was "not adding a new scheme". Which one is it? Probably because you change your POV every post, its hard to have a normal discussion. I havent moved any goal post, or covered for anything. I am telling you again, from the beginning I agreed that the majority of their offense will be the same or similar. They are practicing it for a reason though, if they dont use it immediately is not part of my point. But again, you want to deny all of the reports, quotes, etc that any changes even exist...That's on you bud

The cutting up quotes part is hilarious though, you just ignore them and make believe they werent said

“It’s definitely simplified,” said tackle Trent Brown. “I feel like it’ll make it able for the playmakers to play faster and allow us up front to play faster as well.”-Trent Brown on simplified offense.

Not sure how I can cut up the above, let alone the Edelman quote, seems like you just refuse to acknowledge theres a lot of change from one season to another

You are mismatching and confusing terms, evidently on purpose. The scheme is the offense.
I have said the same thing consistently all along.

This started as a conversation about the passing game and the sight reads responding to someone who said they should dumb down the offense. You jumped in and said the offensive coaches are too stupid to run the old offense and you have been scrambling ever since.

Taking quotes out of context is pointless. They either will or will not change the offense this year. The truth will be seen On the field.
As soon as we got within viewing distance of that say you stated backtracking.
Now you think they aren’t changing anything but are arguing they are, and then when they don’t you set up your excuse with “it failed in practice”.

They are doing what they do every year, and each year they do it to different degrees. That is what I have said all along.
They will stay within the scheme and run the same offense with a few wrinkles and changes, as they do every year. They will not go away from a sight read passing offense, they will not make the offense a stupid peoples offense because Belichick thinks he promoted morons.

 

[All3Phases]

You are mismatching and confusing terms, evidently on purpose. The scheme is the offense.
I have said the same thing consistently all along.

"changed the offense" vs "not adding a new scheme". They cant cant add or diversify without changing the offense? You used both terms. Are they not adding or not changing?

This started as a conversation about the passing game and the sight reads responding to someone who said they should dumb down the offense. You jumped in and said the offensive coaches are too stupid to run the old offense and you have been scrambling ever since.

You confirmed they are streamlining because of the new offensive coaching staff. You dont disagree here. Again, never said they were too stupid, I said they were inexperienced in a complicated offense, with an inexperienced qb. Again, you purposely misinterpreting what I said. Funny how you can instantly become hypocritical.

Taking quotes out of context is pointless. They either will or will not change the offense this year. The truth will be seen On the field.

Again, explain what context the quotes I provided are in.

As soon as we got within viewing distance of that say you stated backtracking.

I havent back tracked on one thing. I said from the beginning 5 months ago, that they were streamlining, simplifying and altering parts of the offense...All that has seemingly been done

Now you think they aren’t changing anything but are arguing they are, and then when they don’t you set up your excuse with “it failed in practice”.

What are you even talking about

They are doing what they do every year, and each year they do it to different degrees. That is what I have said all along.

Again, find me reports, quotes, any sort of evidence of the last time they streamlined the offense, or are trying to add in shanahan type concepts, changing terminology. anything. If it happens every year, this would be easy to find. Considering how much noise its made this year, youd think every other year would result in the same type of coverage

They will stay within the scheme and run the same offense with a few wrinkles and changes, as they do every year. They will not go away from a sight read passing offense, they will not make the offense a stupid peoples offense because Belichick thinks he promoted morons.

What you focus on is what it looks like on your tv screen, not everything that goes into actually running the offense. They wont go away from it, but they will streamline it and simplify it, according to the players