Ringer Article: Will Bill Belichick’s Big Coaching Gamble Backfire?

[denverpatsfan]

This writer shares some of the board's skepticism about the coaching staff.
Will Bill Belichick’s Big Coaching Gamble Backfire?

 

[zydecochris]

This writer shares some of the board's skepticism about the coaching staff.
Will Bill Belichick’s Big Coaching Gamble Backfire?

I saw that previously, thanks for posting. I thought it was a bit of a “hit piece” with stuff I disagreed with, but thought the summary about BB’s asst. coaches this year was interesting if provocative: “He’d rather work with people he’s comfortable with, be they his least successful former assistants or his literal children.” I’m not sure that is an accurate way to portray Judge and Patricia (they were certainly successful with the Pats), but to tell the truth I’ve wondered if at this stage of his career BB does feel that he has earned the right to work with his kids and closest pals. Of course, if they do the job, then no problem.

I came to this thread to read up a bit on the Board’s opinion of the offensive play calling / coaching in general and the Ringer article specifically, and instead many of the posts seemed to be focused on mud slinging or a response to the mudslinging. EDIT: This comment is no longer relevant, originally this thread was part of a much, much longer thread before it was separated out.

Back to the subject, what does the board think of the play calling (including at least some movement toward a new Shanahan type system) and offensive coaches this year?

My two cents: working one-on-one with a primarily defensive coach (BB) certainly helped TB become who he became, so Mac with Patricia sounds good in theory. And, the Shanahan system DOES in theory seem perfect for Mac (why 49ers almost drafted him). I just worry this is throwing a lot at a second year QB and an OL mostly playing new positions. I think we may have to be patient, it may be a bit rocky early.

 

[Sicilian]

I’m not sure that is an accurate way to portray Judge and Patricia (they were certainly successful with the Pats), but to tell the truth I’ve wondered if at this stage of his career BB does feel that he has earned the right to work with his kids and closest pals. Of course, if they do the job, then no problem.

I think this is the part (of the article, not your post) that I have a problem with. It tells me the angle the writer is coming from, which is that Belichick doesn't care about winning anymore. If he thought Patricia, Judge, and his kids gave him a worse chance to win, he wouldn't have them in the roles they're in. I legitimately think he believes that, compared to the other options for THIS season, that this is what's best for the team. It's certainly debatable whether he's wrong or not, but this idea that he's more concerned with hanging out with his kids and buddies than he is about winning just doesn't feel right to me.

 

[upstater1]

Since Dante Scarnecchia is in his mid 70s, how in the world does the writer think Scarnecchia was YOUNGER when he started coaching for Belichick than Patricia and Judge are now?

It makes absolutely no sense.

They are in their 40s.

Dante was in his 50s when he switched under Belichick.

Getting basic facts wrong is a little embarrassing if you're trying to make the point that only young coaches (20s? Early 30) can switch from offense to defense and vice versa.

 

[Jercules]

The Pats outwork everyone. The coaches are expected to burn the candle at both ends. Matt and Joe are products of that environment. They thrived as coaches under Belichick's tutelage. There's no reason to doubt it will happen again.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

This writer shares some of the board's skepticism about the coaching staff.
Will Bill Belichick’s Big Coaching Gamble Backfire?

The writer does not share the board's skepticism, the writer is on the board sharing the same skepticism in both places.

 

[zydecochris]

I think this is the part (of the article, not your post) that I have a problem with. It tells me the angle the writer is coming from, which is that Belichick doesn't care about winning anymore. If he thought Patricia, Judge, and his kids gave him a worse chance to win, he wouldn't have them in the roles they're in. I legitimately think he believes that, compared to the other options for THIS season, that this is what's best for the team. It's certainly debatable whether he's wrong or not, but this idea that he's more concerned with hanging out with his kids and buddies than he is about winning just doesn't feel right to me.

I completely agree that the Ringer article was a bit of a hit piece (although a thought provoking one), and I agree with you that it is silly to say that BB doesn't care about winning like the article implies.

That said..I'm not sure if it is such a binary type of thing, either you want to win or work with people you enjoy working with. Ideally, if you have been successful enough to have the choice, at a certain stage of your career you want to win while working with people you enjoy working with, and BB is hardly the only successful NFL coach to hire his kids (Andy Reid, another coach successful enough to "do it his way" has done the same).

I don't really have any evidence or statistics (hello: calling BGC and other smart analysts for support or contrary evidence), but I just get the feeling that increasingly late in his career BB seems to work with coaches and players that are enjoyable to work with and coachable. It seems to me that BB doesn't bring in as many talented knuckleheads as he used to, especially with the players, more and more of which seem to be high character college captain types that would be enjoyable to coach. Again, I have no hard evidence, it is just a feeling. Any evidence pro or con would be appreciated

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Do we need another thread about the coaching staff? The Pats haven’t even played a game yet…

 

[Triumph]

Part of me believes that BB is going semi George Costanza when he was trying to get the Yankees to fire him.

Kraft openly trashed BB early this year for poor drafts and not enough wins as of late.

 

[Zuma]

As if this subject hasn’t been discussed constantly for the past 6 months by us and the media. How is this one different? This is pure unadulterated hot take click bait in Felger-esque fashion.

 

[Bill Lee]

As if this subject hasn’t been discussed constantly for the past 6 months by us and the media. How is this one different? This is pure unadulterated hot take click bait in Felger-esque fashion.

Hard to argue, after reading such insightful commentary as:

It’s widely reported that the offense is under the control of Patricia, a man who has single-handedly convinced me that not everybody with an engineering degree is intelligent.

They even played the racism card:

Belichick’s choices also stand out as the league attempts to foster diversity among its coaches.

I'm surprised they didn't bring up that he kissed his daughter on the lips so he must be a perv.

What a pile of click bait !!!

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Part of me believes that BB is going semi George Costanza when he was trying to get the Yankees to fire him.

Kraft openly trashed BB early this year for poor drafts and not enough wins as of late.

Bleacher report gave bb’s 2022 draft a grade of “d” for the rookies in preseason this year!

Buffalo took Elam and others and got an “a”!

Easy fix is more wolf…… less bb and groh!

 

[JayNM]

This article is kinda ****

Here is my problems with the coaching staff:

- We have the smallest Coaching staff in the league. Not bad in itself at first, however, it continues.
- EVERYONE comes deep from the BB lineage/Pats System, having been gradually growing within their organizations. Below is a recap:
- 5 out of 9 Off. Coaches have no NFL experience pior to the Pats. Three came from the Lions (No prior experience in the NFL before). And then Joe Judge.
- On defense, NONE of the coaches have prior NFL experience outside the Pats. Also, we have 6 official coaches on defense
I cannot say how good our coaches's college experience are, but I can say i can't recognize most colleges they coached before. Im not a NCAA guy
- Nepotism

Surely, more people work than these guys, right? Are they capacitated to coach NFL players in anwyway? 53 playerss plus PS. That's A LOT OF FOLKS for 16 guys (incl. BB) to handle.

anyway, that's it. I hope I haven't offended your family or something. Also, yeah, some people here don't stay connected to Football talk 24/7/365, so, would be nice if this was a safe space to talk about it.

 

[oldrover]

 

[Boomer B]

Pivotal point in Mac's development, year 2. If he doesn't make the jump most think he is capable of this franchise can be set back many years. Belichick has earned the right to put in place the staff he wants, but if having Patricia/Judge in key roles in the offence and Mac's development backfires it will fall squarely at Belichick's feet. Hopefully Mac makes the jump and the offence is humming by October. The article does bring up valid points that many fans and writers have been saying for a while.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Pivotal point in Mac's development, year 2. If he doesn't make the jump most think he is capable of this franchise can be set back many years. Belichick has earned the right to put in place the staff he wants, but if having Patricia/Judge in key roles in the offence and Mac's development backfires it will fall squarely at Belichick's feet. Hopefully Mac makes the jump and the offence is humming by October. The article does bring up valid points that many fans and writers have been saying for a while.

Why does "many fans and writers" discussing a topic make it valid? People talking about something they have no experience in does not make them experienced. Amazing that discussing something makes it valid.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

This article is kinda ****

Here is my problems with the coaching staff:

- We have the smallest Coaching staff in the league. Not bad in itself at first, however, it continues.
- EVERYONE comes deep from the BB lineage/Pats System, having been gradually growing within their organizations. Below is a recap:
- 5 out of 9 Off. Coaches have no NFL experience pior to the Pats. Three came from the Lions (No prior experience in the NFL before). And then Joe Judge.
- On defense, NONE of the coaches have prior NFL experience outside the Pats. Also, we have 6 official coaches on defense
I cannot say how good our coaches's college experience are, but I can say i can't recognize most colleges they coached before. Im not a NCAA guy
- Nepotism

Surely, more people work than these guys, right? Are they capacitated to coach NFL players in anwyway? 53 playerss plus PS. That's A LOT OF FOLKS for 16 guys (incl. BB) to handle.

anyway, that's it. I hope I haven't offended your family or something. Also, yeah, some people here don't stay connected to Football talk 24/7/365, so, would be nice if this was a safe space to talk about it.

Why make a whole list when you add "nepotism" at the end. Clearly you have an agenda. Why shy away from stating your objection in a forth right manner?

If the Krafts who own the team have no issue in hiring BB's sons, then it is not nepotism. Nepotism implies corruption. Is Jonathan Kraft working for the Patriots nepotism as well? No.

 

[ivanvamp]

Pivotal point in Mac's development, year 2. If he doesn't make the jump most think he is capable of this franchise can be set back many years. Belichick has earned the right to put in place the staff he wants, but if having Patricia/Judge in key roles in the offence and Mac's development backfires it will fall squarely at Belichick's feet. Hopefully Mac makes the jump and the offence is humming by October. The article does bring up valid points that many fans and writers have been saying for a while.

Just remember that Josh Allen’s big jump came from year 2 —> year 3.

 

[Pape]

Just remember that Josh Allen’s big jump came from year 2 —> year 3.

Which was aided greatly by the acquisition of Stefon Diggs from the Vikings...
---------

The talent on the roster will determine the successes and failures of this team, if they have been properly prepared by the coaching staff... It's the same for every team in the league...

The last part of the article - nepotism... When does that stop? The belichick progeny have a decade of coaching experience in the NFL at this point... When does that start to matter as opposed to how they originally got their jobs? Do peeps think they have remained employed just because of dad?

 

[JayNM]

Why make a whole list when you add "nepotism" at the end. Clearly you have an agenda. Why shy away from stating your objection in a forth right manner?

If the Krafts who own the team have no issue in hiring BB's sons, then it is not nepotism. Nepotism implies corruption. Is Jonathan Kraft working for the Patriots nepotism as well? No.

Right, so besides nepotism, what else?

If you are fine with it, it's ok, in this case. I don't know what "agenda" you think I have, but if your best argument over what i said is being "pro" nepotism, I'll answer it afterwards.

Corruption comes in many way, including being instinctively biased towards your kin. It is almost expected. This does not change just bc it's the Patriots and BB. But I can rephrase it, if it's the term that bother you: "the biggest reason they are on the coaching staff for the first place, it's because of his dad" or however you want.