Ringer Article: Will Bill Belichick’s Big Coaching Gamble Backfire?

[captain stone]

The rumor or speculation from Tom Curran is that no established coach wants to work with Bill as he is hard to work with and doesn't pay well.

Little wonder, then, that he has all of these incompetent, unqualified slappies in positions of authority under him now...

#WorstCoachingStaffInNFL

 

[FortressX]

He was paying Charlie crap, so I can believe this rumor.

It is not even his money so I don't understand this.

 

[Boomer B]

The rumor or speculation from Tom Curran is that no established coach wants to work with Bill as he is hard to work with and doesn't pay well.

The part about he doesn't pay well has been around for a while. It took Kraft to get involved to keep McDaniels when he was going to leave to Indy and part of that was giving McDaniels a big pay boost which isn't typical for Pats assistants.

 

[Toofy]

Well this thread has aged really well. I am now moving into believers section that coaching is probably the root cause of all this offensive meltdown. Reasons -

1. Opponents able to read offensive plays before snap and that too by two teams.
2. Mac regression from above average QB to worst QB
3. Hunter Henry from 10 TD TE to an afterthought.
4. Bourne from being a playmaker to a non entity
5. unable to incorporate Thornton into offense despite his speed ( jet sweep, fakes, deep routes)
6. Jonnu still being underperforming
7. Most importantly swapping Wynn and Brown positions and putting them in positions of failure and having a carousel at OLine and not allowing anyone to settle.

Zappe did perform admirably , but what if it was more due to the opponent defense being subpar and allowing our offense to shine . I am coming to this conclusion a lot.

despite the terrible coaching Meyers is succeeding which means Meyers is not an average WR and is much more than that . We would be foolish to let him walk away.


Let's not walk away from Mac or Zappe because of this coaching nightmare. I hope bill takes complete control of offense going forward. If it's so obvious to us, I am sure bill and Kraft are not ablivious to it.

 

[patfanken]

Strange is going to be a m'eh pick.

A good guard for a really high premium.

I have to say I am already totally impressed by Jack Jones and Tyquan R.

I still want to see what Marcus gives us.

Roberts seems like a late round find.

The problem with Strange is that we had bigger needs. I wanted Elam or D Lloyd.

Problem is that both of these guys had an underwhelming camp and are in the back of the depth chart. That's OK for rookies, but really you want to see a bit more from both of them.

In retrospect, a trade-up for Penning or Cross at tackle may have been best for us. Penning went higher though than people imagined.

I did some searching on how the picks in the 20s have done in camps, and no one has set the world on fire. Karlaftis is going to see spot duty. Elam is behind 7th rounders. Lloyd injured his hammy then came back and played with 3rd stringers in the second half.

Only Quay Walker of all those in the 20s has seemed to lock down a starting spot. Of course, Strange as well.

Interesting thoughts, but here is what I don't understand. You write off Strange as "meh" after 9 games, like that is what he's gong to be FOREVER, yet you comment on other picks in a complimentary fashion like all their futures are before them as they develop. What has Tyquan shown us, really?

What you DID do well was show just how difficult it is, even in the first round, to get it right when you are picking in the 20's.

Other points that I'd like to make on this Ringer article. (so I don't have to read the next 5 pages)

This BR article IS biased and very unfair, BUT here's the thing. It is the writer's job to create thought provoking content. The fact that this thread has 11 pages already only emphasizes just what a good job that writer did. He made people think and respond. THAT's his job.

Bedard IS one of the better and fairer Pats guys. (him, Reiss and Lazar). BUT they have a job to do too. So for example, how the Pats coaching staff was made up this year becomes a LEGITIMATE topic of discussion. What Bill did with the offensive side of the ball WAS "different" to say the least. So are the results to date. The key words here are "to date".

Building a coaching staff is what Bill has done very well over the years. However over the last several years, our assistant coaching group has been RAVAGED by losses as we've had 4 prior assistants get HCing jobs. And that is compounded by they fact is that each of those guys take a couple of guys to go with them FURTHER depleting the assistant ranks. SO just like it takes some time to build a contending team, it takes time to build a "contending" coaching staff.

Let me take a sec to address the obvious failures of Pats assistants being HC's. Failure as a HC does NOT mean you are a bad coach. The 2 jobs are very different. So the failures of Matt and Joe does NOT mean that they are bad assistants. You can be a GREAT classroom teacher and suck at being the principal.

What Bill did this season WAS unorthodox, Will it work? I haven't a clue. In the literally THOUSANDS of decisions he's had to make over the years SOME don't work out. So it is easy to focus on those that don't work out and ignore the ones that do, IF that fits the narrative you want to make

 

[PatsFan2]

Well this thread has aged really well. I am now moving into believers section that coaching is probably the root cause of all this offensive meltdown. Reasons -

1. Opponents able to read offensive plays before snap and that too by two teams.
2. Mac regression from above average QB to worst QB
3. Hunter Henry from 10 TD TE to an afterthought.
4. Bourne from being a playmaker to a non entity
5. unable to incorporate Thornton into offense despite his speed ( jet sweep, fakes, deep routes)
6. Jonnu still being underperforming
7. Most importantly swapping Wynn and Brown positions and putting them in positions of failure and having a carousel at OLine and not allowing anyone to settle.

Zappe did perform admirably , but what if it was more due to the opponent defense being subpar and allowing our offense to shine . I am coming to this conclusion a lot.

despite the terrible coaching Meyers is succeeding which means Meyers is not an average WR and is much more than that . We would be fooling to let him walk away.


Let's not walk away from Mac or Zappe because of this coaching nightmare. I hope bill takes complete control of offense going forward. If it's so obvious to us, I am sure bill and Kraft are not ablivious to it.

You forgot the over paid gives us next to nothing Agholor.

 

[upstater1]

Interesting thoughts, but here is what I don't understand. You write off Strange as "meh" after 9 games, like that is what he's gong to be FOREVER, yet you comment on other picks in a complimentary fashion like all their futures are before them as they develop. What has Tyquan shown us, really?

What you DID do well was show just how difficult it is, even in the first round, to get it right when you are picking in the 20's.

Other points that I'd like to make on this Ringer article. (so I don't have to read the next 5 pages)

This BR article IS biased and very unfair, BUT here's the thing. It is the writer's job to create thought provoking content. The fact that this thread has 11 pages already only emphasizes just what a good job that writer did. He made people think and respond. THAT's his job.

Bedard IS one of the better and fairer Pats guys. (him, Reiss and Lazar). BUT they have a job to do too. So for example, how the Pats coaching staff was made up this year becomes a LEGITIMATE topic of discussion. What Bill did with the offensive side of the ball WAS "different" to say the least. So are the results to date. The key words here are "to date".

Building a coaching staff is what Bill has done very well over the years. However over the last several years, our assistant coaching group has been RAVAGED by losses as we've had 4 prior assistants get HCing jobs. And that is compounded by they fact is that each of those guys take a couple of guys to go with them FURTHER depleting the assistant ranks. SO just like it takes some time to build a contending team, it takes time to build a "contending" coaching staff.

Let me take a sec to address the obvious failures of Pats assistants being HC's. Failure as a HC does NOT mean you are a bad coach. The 2 jobs are very different. So the failures of Matt and Joe does NOT mean that they are bad assistants. You can be a GREAT classroom teacher and suck at being the principal.

What Bill did this season WAS unorthodox, Will it work? I haven't a clue. In the literally THOUSANDS of decisions he's had to make over the years SOME don't work out. So it is easy to focus on those that don't work out and ignore the ones that do, IF that fits the narrative you want to make

Ken

I posted that at the end of the preseason, not after 9 games.

I do think there's real value now in drafting guards, but only after seeing how bad so many OLs are across the league.

I don't think anyone expected the horrendous play from OLs before the start of the season.

That being said, I was right about Elam being bad, but Lloyd has been really good.

If we had to redraft, I'd still point out that the trade down gave us a big haul and we landed a lot of good players with the trades.

But if I could trade Strange for Lloyd straight up, I porbably would.

 

[TheRainMaker]

despite the terrible coaching Meyers is succeeding which means Meyers is not an average WR and is much more than that . We would be fooling to let him walk away.

He's most likely going to walk. I'm in the minority that doesn't mind as I think he's targeted way too much and looks good against bad teams but won't be an impactful player against good teams.

Ex NFL GM predicts Jakobi Meyers will leave the Patriots in free agency

Will the Patriots lose top receiver Jakobi Meyers in free agency? This former GM thinks so.

www.masslive.com

unable to incorporate Thornton into offense despite his speed ( jet sweep, fakes, deep routes)

This is concerning.

Jonnu still being underperforming

Bourne from being a playmaker to a non entity

Hunter Henry from 10 TD TE to an afterthought.

Lots of money being wasted here.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Ken

I posted that at the end of the preseason, not after 9 games.

I do think there's real value now in drafting guards, but only after seeing how bad so many OLs are across the league.

I don't think anyone expected the horrendous play from OLs before the start of the season.

That being said, I was right about Elam being bad, but Lloyd has been really good.

If we had to redraft, I'd still point out that the trade down gave us a big haul and we landed a lot of good players with the trades.

But if I could trade Strange for Lloyd straight up, I porbably would.

You can draft IOL early, personally I think a top tier C that'll play 5+ years and be a leader is worth a low 1st RD pick. The point is they have to really hit. You spending a lot, getting first dibs on the position and seemingly have that player as a top 10-15 guy on your board if you're taking him that high. So you're sure of yourself to say the least.

I had a high 3 on Strange and have come to think I was a little low. Simply based on how he's performed and what we've seen to date maybe a little low. We've seen some flashes for sure but overall he's been about average while getting benched. I actually think he'll quite good and eventually prove I was a little low.

I actually took a look at the OL recently with what little time I have. Specifically both guards since Onwenu (probably Judan, maybe Stevenson) has been one of, if not our best player.

A few things stood out. One player attacked first, made first contact (Onwenu) consistently and one player (Strange) tried absorbing or just let defenders make first contact routinely. Almost all of Strange's pressures he was either slow on the draw or tried absorbing contact which will never work rn bc he's just not strong enough atm. He can handle power when he's prepared and ready but isn't quite there when he's off-balance.
I remember Thuney having similar problems early on. I can almost hear Dante yelling to get more aggressive and how pass pro isn't passive. Almost all of his bad reps, misses and pressures allowed he's allowing contact to be made and isn't recovering. Footwork could be better too. Onwenu is a much bigger and squaty dude and shows much better footwork, lighter feet. Both when engaged or anticipating pressure and when he's not engaged or "looking for work" Just not helping himself there either. He'll get too far away from his space looking to help his guys or anticipating a looper on a twist.

Watching them side by side is eye opening considering where they were drafted but Strange is a rookie. Maybe its a credit to Big Mike but the difference is very real.

Anyway I'm hopeful Strange can turn into Thuney with some more experience. We'll see. Very talented but we need to see him really put it together consistently.

 

[captain stone]

You can draft IOL early, personally I think a top tier C that'll play 5+ years and be a leader is worth a low 1st RD pick. The point is they have to really hit. You spending a lot, getting first dibs on the position and seemingly have that player as a top 10-15 guy on your board if you're taking him that high. So you're sure of yourself to say the least.

I had a high 3 on Strange and have come to think I was a little low. Simply based on how he's performed and what we've seen to date maybe a little low. We've seen some flashes for sure but overall he's been about average while getting benched. I actually think he'll quite good and eventually prove I was a little low.

I actually took a look at the OL recently with what little time I have. Specifically both guards since Onwenu (probably Judan, maybe Stevenson) has been one of, if not our best player.

A few things stood out. One player attacked first, made first contact (Onwenu) consistently and one player (Strange) tried absorbing or just let defenders make first contact routinely. Almost all of Strange's pressures he was either slow on the draw or tried absorbing contact which will never work rn bc he's just not strong enough atm. He can handle power when he's prepared and ready but isn't quite there when he's off-balance.
I remember Thuney having similar problems early on. I can almost hear Dante yelling to get more aggressive and how pass pro isn't passive. Almost all of his bad reps, misses and pressures allowed he's allowing contact to be made and isn't recovering. Footwork could be better too. Onwenu is a much bigger and squaty dude and shows much better footwork, lighter feet. Both when engaged or anticipating pressure and when he's not engaged or "looking for work" Just not helping himself there either. He'll get too far away from his space looking to help his guys or anticipating a looper on a twist.

Watching them side by side is eye opening considering where they were drafted but Strange is a rookie. Maybe its a credit to Big Mike but the difference is very real.

Anyway I'm hopeful Strange can turn into Thuney with some more experience. We'll see. Very talented but we need to see him really put it together consistently.

I dig it when you make these observations regarding footwork, balance, hand placement etc... It's why some OLmen are just plain better than others...

I also hope that Strange69 can turn into the next Thuney, who may I remind some people wasn't taken until the 78TH overall pick, and that was after starting at LEFT TACKLE for a DIVISION 1 team.

 

[venecol]

Interesting convo on gap over zone run success in 2022 & run success in general over passing.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Interesting convo on gap over zone run success in 2022 & run success in general over passing.

I'm falling asleep and up early but this is such a weird year all-around. It's just different but you do get the sense that offenses have "caught" defenses yet again. They've spent years taking LB's off the field, getting smaller, adjusting to playing in space, relying on the secondary to play physical etc ... I mean we've seen this before in smaller sample sizes with a certain group of teams (us being one who have always run a good balance) but yeah when I heard the league was running at a 4.5 clip it opened my eyes.

I wrote about this in my thread months ago but it could be in part to OL being that much ahead of DL in the size and system departments. Like we were running an old school okie without a real DT that could defeat doubles or consistently reset the line. Not many of those guys around combined with so many DL coming forward, lighter box/lighter second level players that depend more on DB to stop the run. Blah, blah, blah.

It's an interesting conversation for sure but I'm yawning ...



This is what I'd like to focus on. Play calling has certainly been an issue and I know Mac has been hurt but it doesn't feel like guys are living and breathing to make things work like they are in Miami for example.

I'm a Tua fan and always have been. Had a 1st on him but feel I'm pretty objective. He's definitely limited but what he excels at he's great at. Selling RPO/PA, release/timing (quick passes are covering up that line a lot), slants - short/intermediate, quick feet/quick release. And coaching has gone all in on his strengths. It wasn't been perfect and yes he has the best WR duo in the league but he's been a very good good QB this year. And that offense looked a lot different with another QB running the show albeit a young QB. Yeah I'm sure you could replace him but he's excelling at what they're asking him and if people don't know Miami has arguably the best offense in the league.

I've been calling for more RPO since we drafted him and calling for different kinds. Most coaches are still scared but those that aren't are getting easy money. I pointed this out earlier in the year but refs and most defenses/coaches are behind so far behind on this.


This team needs to go all in on one of these QB's. I don't think play calling is solely the issues at all but it's definitely an issue. That said it doesn't look like the staff is 1000% all in on Mac. And yes I'm sure he helped and had a say in this offense but from the outside looking in it doesn't look like we're "all in" as they say.

Another issue I'd like to take on is the "spacing" or route concepts or we you want to call it.
I'm wrong all the time but I've been harping in this for a minute. We have too many of the same guys and need a specialist that excels at what he does. Bourne and Agholor are really good inside outside options. Neither can win steady outside but you want to take advantage of what they can do out there. Meyers is strictly a big bully slot. Similar to the Raiders rn except they just have a superior group. We have too many slot options. They're missing Ruggs in the worst way and we've been missing the outside presence forever.
Back to my point though. We've been missing an outside guy for sure but we have no quick twitch option. No one that can just get open. DA, 11, WW, We're missing that quick option so bad and the spacing is a result when you have 4 of the same guys who excel in certain areas.
No real outside or slot leaves for fighting for every yard. Nothing quick, nothing easy or explosive.

 

[patsfanfromoversea]

I'm falling asleep and up early but this is such a weird year all-around. It's just different but you do get the sense that offenses have "caught" defenses yet again. They've spent years taking LB's off the field, getting smaller, adjusting to playing in space, relying on the secondary to play physical etc ... I mean we've seen this before in smaller sample sizes with a certain group of teams (us being one who have always run a good balance) but yeah when I heard the league was running at a 4.5 clip it opened my eyes.

I wrote about this in my thread months ago but it could be in part to OL being that much ahead of DL in the size and system departments. Like we were running an old school okie without a real DT that could defeat doubles or consistently reset the line. Not many of those guys around combined with so many DL coming forward, lighter box/lighter second level players that depend more on DB to stop the run. Blah, blah, blah.

It's an interesting conversation for sure but I'm yawning ...



This is what I'd like to focus on. Play calling has certainly been an issue and I know Mac has been hurt but it doesn't feel like guys are living and breathing to make things work like they are in Miami for example.

I'm a Tua fan and always have been. Had a 1st on him but feel I'm pretty objective. He's definitely limited but what he excels at he's great at. Selling RPO/PA, release/timing (quick passes are covering up that line a lot), slants - short/intermediate, quick feet/quick release. And coaching has gone all in on his strengths. It wasn't been perfect and yes he has the best WR duo in the league but he's been a very good good QB this year. And that offense looked a lot different with another QB running the show albeit a young QB. Yeah I'm sure you could replace him but he's excelling at what they're asking him and if people don't know Miami has arguably the best offense in the league.

I've been calling for more RPO since we drafted him and calling for different kinds. Most coaches are still scared but those that aren't are getting easy money. I pointed this out earlier in the year but refs and most defenses/coaches are behind so far behind on this.


This team needs to go all in on one of these QB's. I don't think play calling is solely the issues at all but it's definitely an issue. That said it doesn't look like the staff is 1000% all in on Mac. And yes I'm sure he helped and had a say in this offense but from the outside looking in it doesn't look like we're "all in" as they say.

Another issue I'd like to take on is the "spacing" or route concepts or we you want to call it.
I'm wrong all the time but I've been harping in this for a minute. We have too many of the same guys and need a specialist that excels at what he does. Bourne and Agholor are really good inside outside options. Neither can win steady outside but you want to take advantage of what they can do out there. Meyers is strictly a big bully slot. Similar to the Raiders rn except they just have a superior group. We have too many slot options. They're missing Ruggs in the worst way and we've been missing the outside presence forever.
Back to my point though. We've been missing an outside guy for sure but we have no quick twitch option. No one that can just get open. DA, 11, WW, We're missing that quick option so bad and the spacing is a result when you have 4 of the same guys who excel in certain areas.
No real outside or slot leaves for fighting for every yard. Nothing quick, nothing easy or explosive.

I have said it last year before the draft several times our biggest need as a weapon for mac is a consistent threat on the outside who has deep Speed ability. Then BB went to the draft and selected thornton and traded for parker who are both outside guys imo. We do have still some MOF options with meyers Bourne henry and smith who can work there. In theory the guys we added this Season should help open the MOF and influence our run Game.
The reality is that Teams still stack up the box
A lot of runs for 0 or minus yards.
This has several reasons imo.
Obv we discussed mac and playcalling had both issues.
The o-line is inconsistent. Strange needs to a solid jump in his Second year or the First round pick of a guard was Not a good value pick.
One thing we are not talking enougj about is the offense Concept especially passing Concept. The one clip Orlovsky showed were there not like 3 Receiver running almost into each other, where obv the DB were as weil. I think the passing concept might be a bit tough to learn. The TE are not producing in year 2. everyone said let‘s give smith his Second year then he really knows this offense. Now why is he producing like a 3 string TE? Is it Talent? Things we ask the TE to do in this offense? Play calling? Routes? Normally one would Expect a TE to be a nice mismatch option for your qb for „easy“ throws.

Another issue i don’t understand is the predictability of our offense. They repeat their plays on and on even if they don’t work like some north South runs between the OT. We are not really creative, PA is not much included, Roll-outs from TC are non existent, ...

 

[Stu Pidassle]

A few things stood out. One player attacked first, made first contact (Onwenu) consistently and one player (Strange) tried absorbing or just let defenders make first contact routinely. Almost all of Strange's pressures he was either slow on the draw or tried absorbing contact which will never work rn bc he's just not strong enough atm. He can handle power when he's prepared and ready but isn't quite there when he's off-balance.
I remember Thuney having similar problems early on. I can almost hear Dante yelling to get more aggressive and how pass pro isn't passive. Almost all of his bad reps, misses and pressures allowed he's allowing contact to be made and isn't recovering.

This could help explain the Strange drop off when Andrew's is out of the lineup. It goes to reason that Andrew's is a better, more decisive when calling OL alignments vs Ferentz. Even a split second hesitancy in attacking would make a difference.

 

[patfanken]

I'm falling asleep and up early but this is such a weird year all-around. It's just different but you do get the sense that offenses have "caught" defenses yet again. They've spent years taking LB's off the field, getting smaller, adjusting to playing in space, relying on the secondary to play physical etc ... I mean we've seen this before in smaller sample sizes with a certain group of teams (us being one who have always run a good balance) but yeah when I heard the league was running at a 4.5 clip it opened my eyes.

I wrote about this in my thread months ago but it could be in part to OL being that much ahead of DL in the size and system departments. Like we were running an old school okie without a real DT that could defeat doubles or consistently reset the line. Not many of those guys around combined with so many DL coming forward, lighter box/lighter second level players that depend more on DB to stop the run. Blah, blah, blah.

It's an interesting conversation for sure but I'm yawning ...



This is what I'd like to focus on. Play calling has certainly been an issue and I know Mac has been hurt but it doesn't feel like guys are living and breathing to make things work like they are in Miami for example.

I'm a Tua fan and always have been. Had a 1st on him but feel I'm pretty objective. He's definitely limited but what he excels at he's great at. Selling RPO/PA, release/timing (quick passes are covering up that line a lot), slants - short/intermediate, quick feet/quick release. And coaching has gone all in on his strengths. It wasn't been perfect and yes he has the best WR duo in the league but he's been a very good good QB this year. And that offense looked a lot different with another QB running the show albeit a young QB. Yeah I'm sure you could replace him but he's excelling at what they're asking him and if people don't know Miami has arguably the best offense in the league.

I've been calling for more RPO since we drafted him and calling for different kinds. Most coaches are still scared but those that aren't are getting easy money. I pointed this out earlier in the year but refs and most defenses/coaches are behind so far behind on this.


This team needs to go all in on one of these QB's. I don't think play calling is solely the issues at all but it's definitely an issue. That said it doesn't look like the staff is 1000% all in on Mac. And yes I'm sure he helped and had a say in this offense but from the outside looking in it doesn't look like we're "all in" as they say.

Another issue I'd like to take on is the "spacing" or route concepts or we you want to call it.
I'm wrong all the time but I've been harping in this for a minute. We have too many of the same guys and need a specialist that excels at what he does. Bourne and Agholor are really good inside outside options. Neither can win steady outside but you want to take advantage of what they can do out there. Meyers is strictly a big bully slot. Similar to the Raiders rn except they just have a superior group. We have too many slot options. They're missing Ruggs in the worst way and we've been missing the outside presence forever.
Back to my point though. We've been missing an outside guy for sure but we have no quick twitch option. No one that can just get open. DA, 11, WW, We're missing that quick option so bad and the spacing is a result when you have 4 of the same guys who excel in certain areas.
No real outside or slot leaves for fighting for every yard. Nothing quick, nothing easy or explosive.

It sounds like quick twitch slot guy you covet currently resides on the Jets, but the position he plays for them is "3rd guy to the left of the water cooler on the Jets Bench"

 

[venecol]

 

[StrawHatPatriot]

So far it hasn't been pretty.

Mac has regressed, badly. To where he's bottom 2 in the league in multiple stats. I don't think Mac has been "ruined" - I don't believe in that. I just think his flaws have been exposed.

But that's still an indictment on Patricia, as Mac wasn't this bad last year. Yes he started to slide post-bye week, but he still shouldn't have been arguably the worst starter in the league. Even with tape on him, and better playbooksl scheme should have been being in the low 20s among starters.

Getting Patricia and Judge was a disaster. But hey, I'm not surprised.

 

[patsfanfromoversea]

stunts and blitzes have been an ongoing issue for 2-3 years

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

I have said it last year before the draft several times our biggest need as a weapon for mac is a consistent threat on the outside who has deep Speed ability. Then BB went to the draft and selected thornton and traded for parker who are both outside guys imo. We do have still some MOF options with meyers Bourne henry and smith who can work there. In theory the guys we added this Season should help open the MOF and influence our run Game.
The reality is that Teams still stack up the box
A lot of runs for 0 or minus yards.
This has several reasons imo.
Obv we discussed mac and playcalling had both issues.
The o-line is inconsistent. Strange needs to a solid jump in his Second year or the First round pick of a guard was Not a good value pick.
One thing we are not talking enougj about is the offense Concept especially passing Concept. The one clip Orlovsky showed were there not like 3 Receiver running almost into each other, where obv the DB were as weil. I think the passing concept might be a bit tough to learn. The TE are not producing in year 2. everyone said let‘s give smith his Second year then he really knows this offense. Now why is he producing like a 3 string TE? Is it Talent? Things we ask the TE to do in this offense? Play calling? Routes? Normally one would Expect a TE to be a nice mismatch option for your qb for „easy“ throws.

Another issue i don’t understand is the predictability of our offense. They repeat their plays on and on even if they don’t work like some north South runs between the OT. We are not really creative, PA is not much included, Roll-outs from TC are non existent, ...

The problem is everything is bad.

Coaching doesn't feel "game plan specific" at all. Play calling especially in the RZ has been an issue all year but again there's nothing unique about this offense. Say what you want about Josh and I've said for years he's not HC material. I wouldn't want him taking over here. He was a damm good OC. Very rarely did he have conventional tools to work but Josh made it work and always got the most out of what he had to work with. This offense just isn't "game plan specific" though.

Mac is still making two TO worthy plays a game along with a bad sack or INT. Mechanics were something I brought up pre-draft and he's still shakey there. Post snap processing has been off. Obviously his arm is what it is. We obviously haven't seen that jump but also can't deny how important coaching has been to young QB. His release point has been inconsistent from 12 to 2 to in-between. His release could be quicker for sure.

OL has been inconsistent and rearranged twice over. Our best player might be a guard and it looks like we genuinely need two tackles next draft whether both are projected to start. One start and one depth but we need to really look at that spot(s) and fix one or both. I believe Onwenu is best at G but maybe he slides over.

WR have been better at beating press and separating better than recent outings but we lack explosion and it wouldn't hurt getting a true WR1 but that's down the line of issues.

TE I'm not even going to waste our time. We literally can't use both together bc neither can block well enough lol. It makes my head hurt.

Stevenson and Harris might be the best duo in the league when healthy. Keep them another year.

Defensively we've got nice parts but are still missing pieces in the front seven. We've got some real players on D but really need another stud IDL and LB.

That said we're fighting for a PO spot with some huge division games coming up so theres definitely something to be happy about rn. We'll get a lot of answers both offensively and defensively shortly.

 

[catent]

Well this thread has aged really well. I am now moving into believers section that coaching is probably the root cause of all this offensive meltdown. Reasons -

1. Opponents able to read offensive plays before snap and that too by two teams.
2. Mac regression from above average QB to worst QB
3. Hunter Henry from 10 TD TE to an afterthought.
4. Bourne from being a playmaker to a non entity
5. unable to incorporate Thornton into offense despite his speed ( jet sweep, fakes, deep routes)
6. Jonnu still being underperforming
7. Most importantly swapping Wynn and Brown positions and putting them in positions of failure and having a carousel at OLine and not allowing anyone to settle.

Zappe did perform admirably , but what if it was more due to the opponent defense being subpar and allowing our offense to shine . I am coming to this conclusion a lot.

despite the terrible coaching Meyers is succeeding which means Meyers is not an average WR and is much more than that . We would be foolish to let him walk away.


Let's not walk away from Mac or Zappe because of this coaching nightmare. I hope bill takes complete control of offense going forward. If it's so obvious to us, I am sure bill and Kraft are not ablivious to it.

Some points worth consideration but a couple issues I have with this:

Hunter Henry wasn't a "playmaker" last season. He caught 50 passes for 603 yards, 9 TDs. He was a target in the red area and scored more TDs but otherwise it isn't night and day compared to last season. His average yards per reception is actually higher this season.

I'm not sure it's fair to say they've been unable to incorporate Thornton. The guy has 9 rec, 81 yards, 1 TD. 3 rushes, 16 yards, 1 TD. He's a rookie who's played in 5 career games. Not sure how much more we can reasonably expect at this point, although it'd be nice to see him have a big game.