Patricia Vs Judge For Play Calling Duties?

[1960Pats]

Here's Cam on his time here:

Funny, I thought that I read here numerous times that Cam was suffering from Covid fog (or some such nonsense) and should have been given a long term deal at top dollar. At least Cam was man enough to lay the blame on himself, where it belongs. I'll give him credit for that.

 

[1960Pats]

If true then whatever version of Ehrhart-Perkins he used under Mike Shula in Carolina didn't translate in Foxborough... Maybe it resembled E-P 101 while the version he walked into here was closer to Doctorate-level...

It's football and there are only so many ways to do it. If a player can't figure it out that's on him. We aren't talking about rocket science.

After reading Cam's latest revelation I'm convinced that what he did in Carolina was to look at one receiver and if he was open he'd throw it to him. If not he'd run with the ball. That's what he did here.

 

[captain stone]

It's football and there are only so many ways to do it. If a player can't figure it out that's on him. We aren't talking about rocket science.

After reading Cam's latest revelation I'm convinced that what he did in Carolina was to look at one receiver and if he was open he'd throw it to him. If not he'd run with the ball. That's what he did here.

Generally agree here, though there's something to be said about that which had been developed here by McD (via Charlie Weis) and Brady over the past 15+ years... It's only natural that was gonna happen, but I wonder if they had ass-umed that more players would have had the ability to come along for the ride than there ended-up being by the end (it's one of the reasons I was so angry when Bill chose Germy Cunnyham instead of Golden Tate)... Kinda similar in its way to the general lack of overall success that super-smart or HOF-type players have sometimes when coaching their own teams...

 

[Ring 6]

This is where it all goes back to. Someone brings up a player. Someone mentions why they think that player didn't work out. Then the "well rings!" retort comes out. Once again Andy you missed the point. The point was the coaching staff blew the evaluation on Chad Johnson. That is the point. Keep up.

No the point is that coaching staffs blow evaluations on players all the time.
And it didn’t matter. All of their other evaluations overcame this one.
Are you honestly under the impression that the standard is supposed to be that every single decision in building an nfl team is supposed to be perfect?
Tom Brady made a crappy throw against Atlanta that resulted in a pick 6. Let’s trash Brady for not doing his job and seeing where the defense is an not throwing a pick 6 rather than talk about the historic comeback.

 

[Ring 6]

I am not letting you pull me back in. I swear you do this on purpose.

Then don’t say stupid ****

 

[Ring 6]

Didnt you just post this to me? "Why don’t you tell me what they are doing? You seem to think you can read minds and have adopted a belief that every speculation is fact."

Cant I just say the same thing to you? Mac has said theyre teaching the coaches things. I dont believe its a coincidence, I also dont think its make the coaches dumb. Theyre simply inexperienced, and streamlining the terminology, etc makes it easier for a unit to grasp it. Why didnt that happen when they went from Brady to Cam/Mac? Maybe because Josh was here?

It DID happen then. It happens every year to a different degree.
It pretty easy to understand that they expanded pieces of the offense when they brought in a running qb who couldn’t hit the broad side of a barn throwing the ball. He was the starter until the last preseason game last year as well.
Now that this off season they are clearly back to a pocket qb of course it changes. The Newton plays are removed in the 2022 iteration. New concepts are added (really expanded because they are all in there) in order to run a Mac jones offense. Some was done on the fly last year and now it is being updated.
I’m not sure why people are having such a hard time grasping this.

The offense was the same offense in 2001, 2007, 2015 and 2021.
Over the course of those 20 years they added things most years then stripped away things other years. In 2020 they added a lot because they had a rb at QB. In 2021 they expected to again until the final week of the season.
This year they strip all of that away and expand like always adding Mac jones concepts and things that feature this years personnell.

 

[Ring 6]

You have to forgive Andy because he only sees the world in black and white. There's no shades or grey in his simplistic view.

This is actually very true, where black and white is real and not real and gray is rumor, unsubstantiated guesses, made up crap, and taking a piece of those and turning into “clear proof what is happening” like you do with your ******** posts.

 

[All3Phases]

It DID happen then. It happens every year to a different degree.
It pretty easy to understand that they expanded pieces of the offense when they brought in a running qb who couldn’t hit the broad side of a barn throwing the ball. He was the starter until the last preseason game last year as well.
Now that this off season they are clearly back to a pocket qb of course it changes. The Newton plays are removed in the 2022 iteration. New concepts are added (really expanded because they are all in there) in order to run a Mac jones offense. Some was done on the fly last year and now it is being updated.
I’m not sure why people are having such a hard time grasping this.

The offense was the same offense in 2001, 2007, 2015 and 2021.
Over the course of those 20 years they added things most years then stripped away things other years. In 2020 they added a lot because they had a rb at QB. In 2021 they expected to again until the final week of the season.
This year they strip all of that away and expand like always adding Mac jones concepts and things that feature this years personnell.

Again, theres a difference between scheme changes/additions/stems of plays/or subtractions...Thats all based on personnel, compared to literally altering the verbiage and standardizing it because the coaches are less experienced in the playbook than the 2nd year quarterback. Again, Ill ask, if Josh is still here...Are they altering the playbook in this way in your opinion?

 

[Ring 6]

Again, theres a difference between scheme changes/additions/stems of plays/or subtractions...Thats all based on personnel, compared to literally altering the verbiage and standardizing it because the coaches are less experienced in the playbook than the 2nd year quarterback. Again, Ill ask, if Josh is still here...Are they altering the playbook in this way in your opinion?

It probably influenced because when they did their annual
review with McDaniels being a part of it they walked back some of his influence.
Standardizing doesn’t mean simplifying. You have no idea how much “experience with the playbook” Patricia or judge have. Judge was wr coach his last year here and was part of offensive coaching while st cud have too. You don’t know what Patricia’s role was last year and how involved he was and has been on the offensive side of the ball.

They did something they do every year. Simple as that.

 

[All3Phases]

It probably influenced because when they did their annual
review with McDaniels being a part of it they walked back some of his influence.
Standardizing doesn’t mean simplifying. You have no idea how much “experience with the playbook” Patricia or judge have. Judge was wr coach his last year here and was part of offensive coaching while st cud have too. You don’t know what Patricia’s role was last year and how involved he was and has been on the offensive side of the ball.

They did something they do every year. Simple as that.

You telling me I have no idea about this would be true, and I could say the same for you. We are both giving our opinions here. When I hear, standardizing, streamlining and changing the terminology, I immediately think its to get everybody on board at the same pace. To assume Patricia and Judge dont have much experience in the playbook is not some gigantic leap especially compared to what was coaching the offense here for the last decade. They are extremely inexperienced at OC/QB and thats a fact. I like that theyre doing this, I also believe theres a reason for it. You'd have to believe its a massive coincidence that this occurred right when the experience at OC left.

Ill ask you again, is this happening if McDaniels is still the OC?

 

[Ring 6]

You telling me I have no idea about this would be true, and I could say the same for you. We are both giving our opinions here. When I hear, standardizing, streamlining and changing the terminology, I immediately think its to get everybody on board at the same pace. To assume Patricia and Judge dont have much experience in the playbook is not some gigantic leap especially compared to what was coaching the offense here for the last decade. They are extremely inexperienced at OC/QB and thats a fact. I like that theyre doing this, I also believe theres a reason for it. You'd have to believe its a massive coincidence that this occurred right when the experience at OC left.

Ill ask you again, is this happening if McDaniels is still the OC?

It happens every year.

 

[All3Phases]

It happens every year.

It didnt happen last year, clearly

 

[Ring 6]

It didnt happen last year, clearly

Of course it did. They make changes every year. Do you seriously think they showed up in 2021 and said, ok let’s repeat what we did in 2020, no need to self evaluate, no need to add anything, take away anything, try anything different?

 

[All3Phases]

Of course it did. They make changes every year. Do you seriously think they showed up in 2021 and said, ok let’s repeat what we did in 2020, no need to self evaluate, no need to add anything, take away anything, try anything different?

I dont think ive said that much...I am not saying the playbook isnt added to, there are branches added/altered/subtracted based on personnel...LIke you said, that happens all the time. I dont think the entire playbook is streamlined and the terminology is completely changed in an offseason to a system thats been run for 2 decades successfully, and I think thats due to the offensive coaches not having a grasp on the playbook. Thats an entirely different thing

 

[Ring 6]

I dont think ive said that much...I am not saying the playbook isnt added to, there are branches added/altered/subtracted based on personnel...LIke you said, that happens all the time. I dont think the entire playbook is streamlined and the terminology is completely changed in an offseason to a system thats been run for 2 decades successfully, and I think thats due to the offensive coaches not having a grasp on the playbook. Thats an entirely different thing

I dont think the entire playbook is streamlined and the terminology is completely changed in an offseason to a system thats been run for 2 decades successfully, either, and that isn’t happening this year either.

 

[1960Pats]

No the point is that coaching staffs blow evaluations on players all the time.
And it didn’t matter. All of their other evaluations overcame this one.
Are you honestly under the impression that the standard is supposed to be that every single decision in building an nfl team is supposed to be perfect?
Tom Brady made a crappy throw against Atlanta that resulted in a pick 6. Let’s trash Brady for not doing his job and seeing where the defense is an not throwing a pick 6 rather than talk about the historic comeback.

Brady's a poor example due to his rare mistakes, especially compared to the team's misses on players, but it's nice to see that we can talk about Brady here again. Or is it only criticism that's allowed here?

 

[All3Phases]

I dont think the entire playbook is streamlined and the terminology is completely changed in an offseason to a system thats been run for 2 decades successfully, either, and that isn’t happening this year either.

That's your opinion, I think there's been enough smoke to say that this year is a little different than every other year and its easy to find the common denominator

 

[Ring 6]

That's your opinion, I think there's been enough smoke to say that this year is a little different than every other year and its easy to find the common denominator

Smoke doesn’t mean
“The entire playbook is streamlined and the terminology is completely changed in an off season”
Would you like to show me the smoke that supports that?

Every year is different.
The last 2 years began with a leg armed RB as the starting QB.
The last 10 years of revisions were with the same OC putting his imprint on the system and he is now gone.
Of course the amount of changes will be higher than normal unless you think we keep the LegArm Offense in tact, but the fact that everything is revised abs evaluated and changes are made is the same as every single year.

 

[All3Phases]

Smoke doesn’t mean
“The entire playbook is streamlined and the terminology is completely changed in an off season”
Would you like to show me the smoke that supports that?

“We do have a new system,” Bourne told Cox, “New words, new terminology. That’s the biggest thing.”

“Well, we’ve had a lot of changes offensively in the last couple of years,” Belichick said. “It’s a good time to streamline things. We did that defensively a couple of years ago and feel like this is a good time to do it offensively.

I guess youre right, that isnt even smoke, its fire. The only speculation I threw in there is the reason it was done and thats really the only thing im argying. Im not sure what youre really arguing here

Every year is different.
The last 2 years began with a leg armed RB as the starting QB.
The last 10 years of revisions were with the same OC putting his imprint on the system and he is now gone.
Of course the amount of changes will be higher than normal unless you think we keep the LegArm Offense in tact, but the fact that everything is revised abs evaluated and changes are made is the same as every single year.

Again, I dont discount different elements changing each year, but you seem to agree that this change is happening because because the experience in the coaching staff is gone. Which is my point. Not sure why you refer to last year as a LegArm Offense? Looked like Mac ran an offense that resembled what the Patriots have done for 20 years

 

[Zuma]

Every single season the Patriots make changes to plays depending on personnel (among other things). You can't become stale and let teams know what you're doing. This is Fact. All teams do it...some more then others.