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Patriots Only Used 2TE Offense for 18% of Snaps This Season


Just had time to look. PFF isn't really good for anything nowadays but snaps by position is useful for sure. They had him graded out as his lowest year for blocking since he was a rookie fwiw.

And also this was his lowest year by snaps I believe. They decreased across the board - inline by about 150, slot 50 ...

People don't want to hear it but his blocking was a big reason for that. And ultimately why his #'s decreased imo. That and you're probably not targeting Smith over KB who had a better rapport with Mac.

It's frustrating he had such a poor year but this wasn't Gronk or Kittle in their prime. Smith went from the perfect situation in Tennessee. Lots of PA with less mouths to feed. To a different team with a rookie QB. I think easy just blaming Josh but a little digging and you see why things went the way they did.

I certainly hope that Mac has a few informal get-togethers with his TEs & WRs this offseason... There's not enough talent among them to get by on strictly talent... The timing here has to be better than the timing at other places such as Barfalo & KC...And Jonnu Smith needs to take a long, hard, honest look in the mirror and a lot less looking at his bank statements...
 
To be fair to Skippy, BOB had better personnel across the board...

I suppose this is true when one OC chooses to misplay their own people and under-utilize them (Onwenu, Jonnu, Agholor) while overplaying their own binkies (NKeal, Wynn).


.
 
The tree of reality, of course.

The same reality distortion you mean where you've lied that the Pats had the best RZ offense this year, that the offense didn't go for first down enough even though it had fewer 3rd down tries than most teams in the league, or that Malcolm Butler did drugs before the Superbowl?
 
It's a little difficult for any team to try to replicate the GOAT QB and GOAT TE with a rookie QB.
 
The same reality distortion you mean where you've lied that the Pats had the best RZ offense this year, that the offense didn't go for first down enough even though it had fewer 3rd down tries than most teams in the league, or that Malcolm Butler did drugs before the Superbowl?
It did have the #1 red zone offense after week 3, just as I said
Your lack of understanding of basic football concepts such as converting first downs without getting to 3rd down is becoming legendary. It’s like explaining things to a child.
I never said Malcolm Butler did drugs before the SB but you might as well throw that in there for strike 3, since the only way you could win an argument with me is to make up something I didn’t say and argue it’s wrong. Nice job, should I just argue that you were wrong when you said the sky was orange? It has equal merit.
 
True. Not every OC can run a 2TE offense like Bill O'Brien did.
Here is a great fact for you.
Josh McDaniels offense in 2021 with a rookie QB scored 60 more points that the highest scoring offense Bill OBrien had in Houston.
2021 Patriots averaged 27.2 ppg
OBriens best averaged 25.1 and over his tenure in Houston they averaged 21.9

More proof the squeakiest wheel has no clue what he is talking about.
 
Here is a great fact for you.
Josh McDaniels offense in 2021 with a rookie QB scored 60 more points that the highest scoring offense Bill OBrien had in Houston.
2021 Patriots averaged 27.2 ppg
OBriens best averaged 25.1 and over his tenure in Houston they averaged 21.9

Thanks mostly to the Jete x 2 and the Jaguars.
 
Here is a fact pattern (speculated) that fits the observed, known fact pattern.

Smith is signed for 4 years, there's a huge penalty for getting rid of him in years 1-3, and he didn't get it in year 1.

Here is another fact pattern (speculated) that fits the observed fact pattern.

Smith is signed for 4 years, there is a huge penalty for getting rid of him in years 1-3, and Mac Jones had trouble in year one finding a second TE in his progressions.

Here is another fact pattern (known) that fits the observed fact pattern.

We paid twice for a #1 TE
However, very few teams have 2 #1 TEs playing on the same team in the same season. We are unusual in that we saw Gronk and Hernandez do it together for our team.
So it is likely that we would end up overpaying for one compared with the other -- and if we really aren't good at this, we might overpay for both.

Here is what we did see: A year that Smith did not perform like a #1 TE, although Henry did.
Here is what we did not see: Final proof of how that acquisition looks after 4 years, final proof of his value as a "general" TE regardless of team, final proof of his value as a Patriots TE.

Here are Smith's stats in his first year as a Patriot, with a rookie QB:

28 receptions
45 (not 0) targets
294 yards
10.5 Yards per reception
1 Touchdown
1 fumble

Here are Rod Rutledge's stats in 2001
5 receptions
35 yards
7 yards per reception
0 TDs

That was the number 2 tight end that year. Spoiler alert, Jonnu Smith also outperformed Jermaine Wiggins, the number 1 TE that year (14 receptions, 133 yards.) But they didn't have as good a QB, statistically. They were catching passes for Tom Brady in his first real year.

Granted, we started the present trend and direction of the game, and by we, I mean your New England Football Patriots coaching staff. Generally, you don't lose one of your two TEs bc he killed a guy. We double dipped on TE in the draft, and hit on both, with Gronk and Killa.

We double dipped on TE in free agency last year, after a year of nothing at the position. This coaching staff was faced with thinking they had addressed the position, after Brady could only get 36 catches out of Watson, LaCosse, and Izzo in 2019. Watson led them with 173 yards catching in 2019. 2020 made us WISH for 2019.

Devin Asiasi, whose name literally means "meh," brought in 39 receiving yards and a TD on two catches. Ryan Izzo caught 13 for 199. Dalton Keene brought in 3 balls for 16 yards.

Take another look at Jonnu Smith's stats from 2021. He, like Hunter Henry, was brought in because 2020 was terrible, and 2019 was the problem we were trying to solve with the 2020 TE roster. He, like Hunter Henry (but admittedly less so,) outproduced the entire 2020 TE room.

If I'm the Pats, my hope is that my number 1 TE is a true number 1 TE. I also hope that if I spend on them both, not only do I have twice the chance of hitting on a true number 1 TE, I also might get 2 different styles of number 1 TE, as we had with Gronk and Hernandez - one law abiding, one psychotic. I mean 2 guys who would be TE1 on any other team who have different roles. But I'm not sure how I think a rookie QB is getting them both the ball regularly.

What you settle for is 2 guys, at least 1 of whom can be the number 1 TE, and the other of whom, by the way, would have been the number 1 in the absence of the other (although having your number 1 TE at Smith's level of production is not really being a TE-featuring offense.)

Do any of you think before you rant? Did you look up any of this stuff? Do you care? Or is everything just the worst possible outcome? Yes by God you're right, Jonnu Smith's no Hunter Henry. Then again, if he outperformed Hunter Henry by any appreciable margin, you'd be happy as a clam saying what a bust Henry is.

The one legit whine you have is that all these front loaded deals lock us in on the guys we paid. That I've never liked. We'll see as Mac develops (and as Jonnu catches on) whether we ever get the 2 TE layer to work with this group. What we know, however, is we're not putting him in the TE hell we put Cam in, and also, by the way, TFB.
 
They’ve paid Smith just 5M and owe him 26M, however they spread it out. This deal is as bad as the Jets Revis deal. Maybe worse, since Smith was never actually good.
 
They’ve paid Smith just 5M and owe him 26M, however they spread it out. This deal is as bad as the Jets Revis deal. Maybe worse, since Smith was never actually good.

I think almost $35M guaranteed. Absolutely terrible. Smith, Wynn, Agholor, Godchaux bad deals will prevent the team from keeping actually good players like JC Jackson.
 
I certainly hope that Mac has a few informal get-togethers with his TEs & WRs this offseason... There's not enough talent among them to get by on strictly talent... The timing here has to be better than the timing at other places such as Barfalo & KC...And Jonnu Smith needs to take a long, hard, honest look in the mirror and a lot less looking at his bank statements...
How do you know jonnu was focused on his money and didn’t want to be producing more than he was?
 
Here is a fact pattern (speculated) that fits the observed, known fact pattern.

Smith is signed for 4 years, there's a huge penalty for getting rid of him in years 1-3, and he didn't get it in year 1.

Here is another fact pattern (speculated) that fits the observed fact pattern.

Smith is signed for 4 years, there is a huge penalty for getting rid of him in years 1-3, and Mac Jones had trouble in year one finding a second TE in his progressions.

Here is another fact pattern (known) that fits the observed fact pattern.

We paid twice for a #1 TE
However, very few teams have 2 #1 TEs playing on the same team in the same season. We are unusual in that we saw Gronk and Hernandez do it together for our team.
So it is likely that we would end up overpaying for one compared with the other -- and if we really aren't good at this, we might overpay for both.

Here is what we did see: A year that Smith did not perform like a #1 TE, although Henry did.
Here is what we did not see: Final proof of how that acquisition looks after 4 years, final proof of his value as a "general" TE regardless of team, final proof of his value as a Patriots TE.

Here are Smith's stats in his first year as a Patriot, with a rookie QB:

28 receptions
45 (not 0) targets
294 yards
10.5 Yards per reception
1 Touchdown
1 fumble

Here are Rod Rutledge's stats in 2001
5 receptions
35 yards
7 yards per reception
0 TDs

That was the number 2 tight end that year. Spoiler alert, Jonnu Smith also outperformed Jermaine Wiggins, the number 1 TE that year (14 receptions, 133 yards.) But they didn't have as good a QB, statistically. They were catching passes for Tom Brady in his first real year.

Granted, we started the present trend and direction of the game, and by we, I mean your New England Football Patriots coaching staff. Generally, you don't lose one of your two TEs bc he killed a guy. We double dipped on TE in the draft, and hit on both, with Gronk and Killa.

We double dipped on TE in free agency last year, after a year of nothing at the position. This coaching staff was faced with thinking they had addressed the position, after Brady could only get 36 catches out of Watson, LaCosse, and Izzo in 2019. Watson led them with 173 yards catching in 2019. 2020 made us WISH for 2019.

Devin Asiasi, whose name literally means "meh," brought in 39 receiving yards and a TD on two catches. Ryan Izzo caught 13 for 199. Dalton Keene brought in 3 balls for 16 yards.

Take another look at Jonnu Smith's stats from 2021. He, like Hunter Henry, was brought in because 2020 was terrible, and 2019 was the problem we were trying to solve with the 2020 TE roster. He, like Hunter Henry (but admittedly less so,) outproduced the entire 2020 TE room.

If I'm the Pats, my hope is that my number 1 TE is a true number 1 TE. I also hope that if I spend on them both, not only do I have twice the chance of hitting on a true number 1 TE, I also might get 2 different styles of number 1 TE, as we had with Gronk and Hernandez - one law abiding, one psychotic. I mean 2 guys who would be TE1 on any other team who have different roles. But I'm not sure how I think a rookie QB is getting them both the ball regularly.

What you settle for is 2 guys, at least 1 of whom can be the number 1 TE, and the other of whom, by the way, would have been the number 1 in the absence of the other (although having your number 1 TE at Smith's level of production is not really being a TE-featuring offense.)

Do any of you think before you rant? Did you look up any of this stuff? Do you care? Or is everything just the worst possible outcome? Yes by God you're right, Jonnu Smith's no Hunter Henry. Then again, if he outperformed Hunter Henry by any appreciable margin, you'd be happy as a clam saying what a bust Henry is.

The one legit whine you have is that all these front loaded deals lock us in on the guys we paid. That I've never liked. We'll see as Mac develops (and as Jonnu catches on) whether we ever get the 2 TE layer to work with this group. What we know, however, is we're not putting him in the TE hell we put Cam in, and also, by the way, TFB.
I think the issue with this is that the combined money for Henry and jonnu is wayyyy too much for one #1 TE (who by the way, isn’t in the top tier of TE’s like gronk kelce kittle andrews). It’s not going to be an effective way to build the team, to pay two #1 TE contracts for production from one of them. That money needs to be allocated elsewhere.
 
Well, there is always the possibility of Obrien coming back. I guess as long as he can resurrect the 2 TE offense everyone will be ok if Josh leaves?

Personally, not a fan of Obriens personality or his militant coaching syle. That’s just from an outsiders view who really doesnt know the guy.

Keep him as far away from personal decisions as possible. The Tunsil and Hopkins moves were probably 2 of the worst moves by a gm in the last 2 decades.
 


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