Anyone else stoked for the matchup against Brady and the Bucs?

[Kontradiction]

Pointless to include Cleveland since there were ownership issues there. His Cleveland days are just not an accurate representation of who he is as a coach.

Sure they were. He was sub-.500 there without Brady and he’s sub-.500 here without Brady. He was a HC there and he’s a HC here. Statisticians and historians include his time there in his overall record. You can try to excuse that away any which way you like, but the facts are the facts - Brady won a Super Bowl without Bill. Bill has been mediocre as a HC without Brady.

 

[Deus Irae]

Off the top of my head, most had them losing the 1st Pats/Rams SB.

And most had the Pats expecting to beat the Giants in 07.

You misunderstood. The question was in response to Ashley's post:

but the talent last year that we had on this team was real bad.....to get 7 wins was incredible, especially with the way Cam played.

so the question is just about 2020.

 

[A Defiant Goose]

can belichick do it without Brady?

brady did it without belichick

Define "it." A Super Bowl is hard to get to and win, do does BB have to win one before he retires? What if the team is competitive and has deep runs with no SB wins for 10 years like the Pats from 05-2014? If BB keeps the team winning and making the divisional round or later year in and year out til 2030 but doesn't win any SBs I would call that getting it done without Brady

 

[SVN]

All great coaches need good Qbs. Walsh was 2-14 and 6-10 or something without montana IIRC. It all boils down to personality . If BB was the media friendly andy reid or sean payton, there wont be this constant gymnastics by the media especially to show his record or debate his greatness. The irony of this is - the same media kept talking about Brady as a system QB, peyton didnt have BB's defense etc etc...now they have flipped the script

 

[A Defiant Goose]

Wow Brady’s dad “belichick wanted him out of town”

I believe Brady’s dad

brady wanted special treatment didnt get it so he ran and took his ball(gronk) with him

 

[NFLmac]

I have never seen it called, ever again. I have never seen a QB over throw his wideout and it be called intentional grounding. I have seen Receivers cut off their routes and the QB think they are going deep and throw it 40 yards over their heads. I have seen QB's throw it up in the stands. So again, why was it called there and not other times?

Honestly, it was called because he SEEMINGLY was about to be sacked IN THE ENDZONE, which is why it was called a safety…for NYFL centric reasons.

 

[NewEraWithMac]

Sure they were. He was sub-.500 there without Brady and he’s sub-.500 here without Brady. He was a HC there and he’s a HC here. Statisticians and historians include his time there in his overall record. You can try to excuse that away any which way you like, but the facts are the facts - Brady won a Super Bowl without Bill. Bill has been mediocre as a HC without Brady.

Factually incorrect. Once Bill got Testaverde, his QB of choice and ditched cement shoes Kosar, that's when you look at it. Cleveland was a SB favorite entering 1995, This was probably before you were born since it's curious you don't know about these kinds of facts, but there is a documentary on the subject. Or, you were alive then and YOU and people of your ilk want to be disingenuous pretending you judge a coach who has no control over who his QB is. A Coach getting the QB they believe is the answer is arguably the most important thing a coach can have support from an owner with in this league. To pretend otherwise is childish or disingenuous.

If BB scores with Mac, fans like you are screwed and will be laughed at for years.

By 1996, BB had made Testaverde into a Pro Bowl (back when it meant something) QB in Baltimore.

BB was outstanding as a head coach with Cassel, 3.5 games with JimmyG and last year with god awful Cam. The fact they won 7 games with him and no offense was incredible. Cam lost the Buffalo game, too, amongst other close ones as well.

When BB gets a QB of HIS choosing, he's now 23-15 without Brady in NE.

 

[NewEraWithMac]

brady wanted special treatment didnt get it so he ran and took his ball(gronk) with him

Yep. And you have to ask what this special treatment was. I wouldn't be shocked if Kraft built that TB12 facility for Brady with his own money. Fans of other teams have thought for years it was a salary cap violation, allowing Brady to make money on the side on NFL property.

And, it still wasn't enough for Captain Ego.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Sure they were. He was sub-.500 there without Brady and he’s sub-.500 here without Brady. He was a HC there and he’s a HC here. Statisticians and historians include his time there in his overall record. You can try to excuse that away any which way you like, but the facts are the facts - Brady won a Super Bowl without Bill. Bill has been mediocre as a HC without Brady.

How many elite HCs have stellar records without their elite QB?

 

[Kontradiction]

Define "it." A Super Bowl is hard to get to and win, do does BB have to win one before he retires? What if the team is competitive and has deep runs with no SB wins for 10 years like the Pats from 05-2014? If BB keeps the team winning and making the divisional round or later year in and year out til 2030 but doesn't win any SBs I would call that getting it done without Brady

Brady set the benchmark when it comes to comparisons by winning it all last year. Surely the GOAT GM and the GOAT HC can do the same with his time left here, right?

 

[Kontradiction]

How many elite HCs have stellar records without their elite QB?

You realize you’re actually making my point for me here, right?

 

[SHOWTIME15]

All great coaches need good Qbs. Walsh was 2-14 and 6-10 or something without montana IIRC. It all boils down to personality . If BB was the media friendly andy reid or sean payton, there wont be this constant gymnastics by the media especially to show his record or debate his greatness. The irony of this is - the same media kept talking about Brady as a system QB, peyton didnt have BB's defense etc etc...now they have flipped the script

Yep, and Lombardi's record in Washington was mediocre. However, no one is seriously going to argue Lombardi was a bad coach without Starr. Every time that a poster brings up Bill's below .500 record without Brady the implication is that he sucks as a HC and that Brady made him. Kontra did this numerous times last year.

 

[BradytoMosstoGronk]

Factually incorrect. Once Bill got Testaverde, his QB of choice and ditched cement shoes Kosar, that's when you look at it. Only YOU and people of your ilk want to be disingenuous pretending you judge a coach who has no control over who his QB is. A Coach getting the QB they believe is the answer is arguably the most important thing a coach can have support from an owner with in this league. To pretend otherwise is childish or disingenuous.

If BB scores with Mac, fans like you are screwed and will be laughed at for years.

By 1996, BB had made Testaverde into a Pro Bowl (back when it meant something) QB in Baltimore.

BB was outstanding as a head coach with Cassel, 3.5 games with JimmyG and last year with god awful Cam. The fact they won 7 games with him and no offense was incredible. Cam lost the Buffalo game, too, amongst other close ones as well.

When BB gets a QB of HIS choosing, he's now 23-15 without Brady in NE.

Just so I'm clear, I'm not taking a side but I want clarification on your stance:

It's factually incorrect to Include all BBs wins and losses, but factually correct or intellectually honest to exclude wins or losses that weren't with "a QB he didn't draft?"

 

[condon84]

Sure they were. He was sub-.500 there without Brady and he’s sub-.500 here without Brady. He was a HC there and he’s a HC here. Statisticians and historians include his time there in his overall record. You can try to excuse that away any which way you like, but the facts are the facts - Brady won a Super Bowl without Bill. Bill has been mediocre as a HC without Brady.

This post would make Skip proud.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

You realize you’re actually making my point for me here, right?

Then you can argue that all elite HCs are mediocre without their star QBs....in which case you bringing up Bill's below .500 record without Brady is pointless.

 

[Deus Irae]

Brady set the benchmark when it comes to comparisons by winning it all last year. Surely the GOAT GM and the GOAT HC can do the same with his time left here, right?

Why should BB have years and years to win a single SB? If it's about coaching v. QB, the debate is over. The QBs have won.

 

[Kontradiction]

Yep, and Lombardi's record in Washington was mediocre. However, no one is seriously going to argue Lombardi was a bad coach without Starr. Every time that a poster brings up Bill's below .500 record without Brady the implication is that he sucks as a HC and that Brady made him. Kontra did this numerous times last year.

Nobody is saying Bill is a bad coach. That’s a textbook straw man. You should know better than that. Actually, I’ve gone on record several times in saying that he’s the GOAT. But Brady made him the GOAT. He only had a hand in making Brady the GOAT. The rest was all Brady - diet, mechanics, film study, moving the safeties with his eyes, etc.

 

[NewEraWithMac]

Was it really, though?


Serious question, which will require just a minimal amount of research and remembering:

Other than the Ravens game, what games did the Patriots win that they "shouldn't" have, and what games did they lose that they "shouldn't" have?

In Buffalo for one. Vs Denver and @ Houston.

That's 3 games right there.

 

[NewEraWithMac]

Why should BB have years and years to win a single SB? If it's about coaching v. QB, the debate is over. The QBs have won.

No, the TEAM wins. It's not a QB vs 11 defenders. Learn the game.

 

[NewEraWithMac]

Nobody is saying Bill is a bad coach. That’s a textbook straw man. You should know better than that. Actually, I’ve gone on record several times in saying that he’s the GOAT. But Brady made him the GOAT. He only had a hand in making Brady the GOAT. The rest was all Brady - diet, mechanics, film study, moving the safeties with his eyes, etc.

BB drafted, developed and promoted Brady. BB made Brady the GOAT. This isn't Bill Polian leaving Carolina and cupcaking over to the Colts for the #1 pick.

This isn't Phil Jackson cupcaking to the Lakers after being lucky to catch the front end of Jordan's greatness.

Brady was a flabby, lowly 6th rd pick that no one wanted. Brady owes his career to BB. The fact you think Brady came into the NFL with secrets to tell BB and how to be a great GM and Coach is the stuff of a 6 year old boy.