Anyone else stoked for the matchup against Brady and the Bucs?

[StockingAnarchyNumber12]

No one said he can do no wrong. I've disagreed with him plenty.

It's the revisionist history part that I take issue with here. He absorbed AWFUL rosters in Cleveland in 1991 and in NE in 2000 and he cleaned up both, with postive records thereafter.

You don't build a team for sustained success in 6-12 months. How childish can you be? The Jets think they can build a team overnight. How's that working for them the last 20 years?

I'm "childish"? Lol.

Its funny how you bring up "revisionist" when ironically, the same can be said to you. Did you think Belichick was a great coach in 2000? If Bledsoe doesnt get injured, does he ever reach that pinnacle? Brady saved Belichicks career.

That's a fact. Yes, Belichick drafted him but it wasnt some genius plan.

 

[NG Pats Fan]

Wow Brady’s dad “belichick wanted him out of town”

I believe Brady’s dad

 

[StockingAnarchyNumber12]

Wow Brady’s dad “belichick wanted him out of town”

I believe Brady’s dad

Bradys dad is annoying

 

[Kontradiction]

can belichick do it without Brady?

brady did it without belichick

I hope so. Belichick needs to concentrate on getting his career record over .500 without Brady first, though.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

I hope so. Belichick needs to concentrate on getting his career record over .500 without Brady first, though.

I'm guessing he'll eclipse that this year. He's 27-29 without Brady as HC of the Pats, which includes Brady's rookie year.

 

[ashley]

can belichick do it without Brady?

brady did it without belichick

Time will tell, I don't want to get into a Bill vs Tom debate again, we know coaches can't win without the players, but I am pretty certain that Bill will win again here if he has the talent to do so...I believe he is the GOAT....I've said this before, no other coach could have gotten 7 wins out of this team last year...one of his best overall jobs

 

[Kontradiction]

I'm guessing he'll eclipse that this year. He's 27-29 without Brady as HC of the Pats, which includes Brady's rookie year.

As a HC, you’re including the Browns era as well. When people look back at his career without Brady as they compare the two, they won’t arbitrarily take that out just like they won’t arbitrarily take Tom’s time in Tampa out either.

 

[NG Pats Fan]

Time will tell, I don't want to get into a Bill vs Tom debate again, we know coaches can't win without the players, but I am pretty certain that Bill will win again here if he has the talent to do so...I believe he is the GOAT....I've said the before, no other coach could have gotten 7 wins out of this team last year...one of his best overall jobs

so you praise him for his amazing coaching abilities on a talentless team last year that belichick himself assembled.. but you don’t also criticize his GM abilities?

”if he has the talent”

it’s belichick job as the GM to find the talent

 

[StockingAnarchyNumber12]

As a HC, you’re including the Browns era as well. When people look back at his career without Brady as they compare the two, they won’t arbitrarily take that out just like they won’t arbitrarily take Tom’s time in Tampa out either.

I think the only difference you need to consider at least a little is Belichick probably grew as a HC after Cleveland while Brady has already grown playing on the Bucs.

However, you arent wrong

 

[ashley]

so you praise him for his amazing coaching abilities on a talentless team last year that belichick himself assembled.. but you don’t also criticize his GM abilities?

”if he has the talent”

it’s belichick job as the GM to find the talent

Bill the GM vs Bill the coach is another argument.....but the talent last year that we had on this team was real bad.....to get 7 wins was incredible, especially with the way Cam played.

 

[ashley]

I hope Bill beats Shula's record while he is coaching the Pats, otherwise, I admit, I won't care. lol
He'll still be the GOAT, but at that point I could care less if he's not with us.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

As a HC, you’re including the Browns era as well. When people look back at his career without Brady as they compare the two, they won’t arbitrarily take that out just like they won’t arbitrarily take Tom’s time in Tampa out either.

Well, if you are going to include Cleveland, the question is really "what is Belichick's record without an elite QB?"

 

[Deus Irae]

Brain dead take. The World Wide Web is available. Brady surpasses both of them quite easily. Brady is the GOAT at the most important position in the hardest team sport. Neither Bird nor Orr can make that claim in their own respective sports.

Orr's the greatest to ever lace up the skates.

But Brady's still gone way past him.


And, as much as I love Bird, and find it amusing as all hell when people try to diminish him in comparison to other all time greats, he was never going to pass Russell, who's the true G.O.A.T. of basketball.

 

[NG Pats Fan]

Bill the GM vs Bill the coach is another argument.....but the talent last year that we had on this team was real bad.....to get 7 wins was incredible, especially with the way Cam played.

Agreed. Belichick is the best coach ever and cam was terrible.

 

[PScottman]

Boston sports fans have this weird tradition that’s unlike any other city in America as far as I can tell. We revel in the glory of our great coaches more than our great players. It’s so strange. No other American city is like that.

Is there anywhere with which to make the comparison under similar circumstances?

Having lived in Pittsburgh and Texas (Dallas), I would posit the fans would have had very similar disagreements had, for example Bradshaw left Noll before Terry was unable to keep playing at a high level (and won a Super Bowl) or had Jimmy Johnson left Dallas and won a Super Bowl with Miami for example while the Big 3 struggled under Switzer instead of winning another Bowl. I just don't see a true comparison situation with which to make that claim.

Those two towns are about the biggest level of fandom being overboard I've ever experienced and argue everything from who is the best player in franchise history to who deserves the credit for everything from drafting to coaching to which beer is served at the stadium.

This is all just nature vs nurture anyway which has been argued by humans since...well, we learned to argue. There is no definitive answer because there are too many alternative variables.

 

[Kontradiction]

Well, if you are going to include Cleveland, the question is really "what is Belichick's record without an elite QB?"

Why the hell wouldn’t you include his time with Cleveland? He was the head coach, wasn’t he? He had assembled one of the better coaching staffs of all time there, hadn’t he?

 

[PScottman]

Boston sports fans have this weird tradition that’s unlike any other city in America as far as I can tell. We revel in the glory of our great coaches more than our great players. It’s so strange. No other American city is like that.

Having never lived in New York, Chicago or Montreal (the other three cities with true "dynasty" teams and HOF/GOAT players IMHO) maybe there is a comparison from the Yankees, Canadiens or Bulls - but I cant think of any.

 

[Deus Irae]

Bill the GM vs Bill the coach is another argument.....but the talent last year that we had on this team was real bad.....to get 7 wins was incredible, especially with the way Cam played.

Was it really, though?


Serious question, which will require just a minimal amount of research and remembering:

Other than the Ravens game, what games did the Patriots win that they "shouldn't" have, and what games did they lose that they "shouldn't" have?

 

[condon84]

Was it really, though?


Serious question, which will require just a minimal amount of research and remembering:

Other than the Ravens game, what games did the Patriots win that they "shouldn't" have, and what games did they lose that they "shouldn't" have?

Off the top of my head, most had them losing the 1st Pats/Rams SB.

And most had the Pats expecting to beat the Giants in 07.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Why the hell wouldn’t you include his time with Cleveland? He was the head coach, wasn’t he? He had assembled one of the better coaching staffs of all time there, hadn’t he?

Pointless to include Cleveland since there were ownership issues there. His Cleveland days are just not an accurate representation of who he is as a coach. Same deal if Brady signed with the Jets instead of Tampa...no talent whatsoever and no coaching and him playing poorly there would not be reflective of his ability.