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NFL GAME DAY DISCUSSION ****** Other NFL Games Thread Week 1 ******

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McCarthy's statement was not an attempt at criticism. He was saying that he wouldn't have refused a penalty call of that sort. Nobody refuses a penalty call of that sort. Coaches decline penalties that end up with an outcome they'd prefer not happen (i.e. a call that would not result in a first down, when the play resulted in a first down). Coaches don't go up to officials and say "I don't think that was pass interference, so I'm going to decline the penalty".

Again, you have no idea what you're talking about.
 
Rob, did you not see both players state that it was a fine play, that no call was fine? Why are you spending so much time on being right about this one play? Who GAF? Bucs hardly got a pass on penalties called against them.

Penalties:
Bucs: 11 for 106
Boys: 8 for 55

Godwin stating it was a fine play is irrelevant as he was the perpetrator. The Cowboys DB saying it was fine too is irrelevant since most players are not going to whine about the reffing. I believe the players and coaches get fined for ref criticism. In any event, it's the tape that counts.
 
watching Brady last night with all those weapons just makes you wonder "what if"...Bill just gave him some talent at the WR position. TB can fit a boatlod of talent on both sides of the ball under the cap, yet the Pats could never even give Brady a #1 WR?

Brady leaving gave us Cam, which in turn gave us Mac. If Mac turns out to be good, then it worked out for us.
 
He dislocated his elbow. Arians said he will be fine and could play next Sunday vs the Falcons. They really avoided a disaster. It looked to me like he broke his forearm.

Crazy if true!

That was a gruesome looking injury when it happened, thought he broke it for sure
 
I’m just pointing out that Tom defies the age odds for very specific reasons. It isn’t just luck of genetics. Big Ben will never be able to do what Tom has done in terms of longevity, because Big Ben doesn’t take care of his body in the same way. He doesn’t eat the same way. He doesn’t avoid vices the same way.

Tom’s longevity is no accident or matter of luck. The human body can go for a lot longer when you take excellent care of it.

Forget where I read it, but i remember reading some article and data awhile ago that said the human body is biologically designed to live about 150 years, we just destroy it before we get there
 
My take on the OPI is like most: I would not have been surprised if it had been called, but I don't believe it was egregious that it was not called.
It also looked like the CB was trying to draw a yellow card instead of flag with soccer sissy stuff. Hey, alliteration!

That is a play I never want called, along with one of the DPI calls last night. Only the blatant should be called. Half the DPI calls in the NFL are BS.

Then again, I liked the Patriots' 2003-2004 Defense, and I think Bill Polian is a whale's vagina.
 
As I've said, it's a call that could/should have been either made against both or neither, because it's a ticky-tack penalty by both, if it's a penalty at all. I've got no problem with anyone who wants to argue that both committed P.I.. I just can't take anyone who argues that it was only on Godwin seriously, because such a position requires blindness, willful or real.
That's fair.
 
Fair enough. I'm a player person. I root for players. Players make the team. The "team" is owned by one of the 32 that makes up the NFL. Not a fan of the 32.

Whenever a former Patriots player leaves the team or is traded and they were a good player, I always wish them well and root for their success. This is especially true if they made an impact while on the team, like Danny or Brady.

Funny thing is I started disliking Brady. I was a Bledsoe guy and thought Tommy was too ****y. I'm glad I was wrong. He gave us the best 20 years that a player can give any franchise.
Why do we have to decide if we're "player people" or "team people" -- can't the world handle us being a bit of both?

I'm definitely a Pats fan and root for former Pats that I liked AND who left town in a classy way without dumping on the team or the city. TB12 is that kind of player. He bought a full page newspaper ad thanking the team and the fans, did a bunch of positive social media posts, and still talks about his Pats days in a positive way pretty much all of the time. Can't say I'd ever want to have rooted for Asante Samuel, for instance.

I won't root for Tom against the Pats in Week 4 or any other head to head meeting, but other than that, I hope he keeps the legend going as long as wants to and his wife lets him!

watching Brady last night with all those weapons just makes you wonder "what if"...Bill just gave him some talent at the WR position. TB can fit a boatlod of talent on both sides of the ball under the cap, yet the Pats could never even give Brady a #1 WR?
Tampa sucked for pretty much an entire decade before Brady got there:



This means they had great draft position at the same time our SB runs meant we had poor draft position and players that felt they deserved to be PAID. It's not an apples to apples situation.

Seems Tom got many to take a discount this season to bring the band back together, but that will only last so long. Then we'll find out if it was more Tom being the piece that put them over the top vs Tampa being a sustainable program.

They need to trade future picks for a top CB. I'd like to see them swing a deal for Gilmore but wonder if Bill would trade him there.
He's injured, remember?

If I am the Bucs, I would be concerned about the defense. The defense was a huge reason why they won in the playoffs last year. Tonight they knew the Cowboys were passing on virtually every down and couldn’t do much to stop them.

It is the first game and this could be an aberration, but is something they should be a little worried about.
If nothing else, Tampa put a lot of stuff out on film last night for other teams to work with.
 
He was clearly helped to the ground by Godwin pushing him, even if the DB is backtracking. Would he have lost his balance and fell to the ground regardless? We don't know. Bottom line is if the receiver intentionally lends any assistance to the DB going to the ground it should be flagged as OPI (and I'm not talking about feet getting tangled). Maybe the DB wouldn't have been able to make a play on the ball, but what if it hits him (gets lucky) and the pass falls incomplete?
What if? If, if, if, if.

If Godwin didn’t fumble the ball near the goal line…

If Dallas didn’t sit in Cover-3 and let Gronk catch and run for chunk yardage on the last drive…

If Jones didn’t fumble it in the first half…

If my aunt had balls…

Let’s deal with reality. The DB was in no position to make a play on the ball. He was back peddling, had inside leverage, got caught flat-footed, and the throw was outside. If it was such a tried and true case of OPI, there wouldn’t have been a need to throw his head back like he just got hit by a truck and flop. The refs were right to keep the flag in their pocket.
 
The flop is irrelevant because no flag was thrown. It isn't relevant because you want it to be.

The flop is relevant because it symbolizes the fact that there was really any OPI. Had there been, there wouldn’t have been a need to flop. Give it up, Rob. That’s not how relevance works. It’s relevant and it’s inconvenient for your case here.

Again, I and a large number of people think it was OPI because Godwin pushed off, not because the defender fell to the ground. In fact, I think Collinsworth said that the defender would have probably fallen to the ground either way and the push off didn't cause it. You keep saying that the flop is relevant because the ref shouldn't be giving out calls because the defender flops to the ground. BUT THE REF DIDN'T CALL OPI. Whether he flopped or not, it didn't affect how the refs judged the play.

1) Who cares what you and a “large number of people” think? A large number of people also think there was no OPI that was missed.

2) The DB definitely would have fallen to the ground regardless. He was back peddling, caught flat footed, had inside leverage on an outside throw, and had zero shot to make a play on the ball. Enter the head snap and the flop to try to draw OPI. Didn’t work. Know why? Because it wasn’t OPI and had no… chance… to… make… a… play… on… the… ball

And the defender has the right to the ball if he is looking back to the ball. And he could have most certainly got his hand on the ball from what I saw.

Please explain how, exactly, he could have gotten a had on the ball if he was back peddling and had the wrong leverage on the throw? Do you think it’s possible that he could have defied the laws of physics? I’ve asked you to detail this for me already and you have yet to do it. Be very specific.

He might not have been able to catch it but he could have certainly been able to get his hand in there and break up the pass and that is enough for NFL standards.

No, he couldn’t have. It would have been physically impossible for him to do that on a back peddle with inside leverage.

I am guessing that if it was Amari Cooper who pushed off a Bucs defender, I assume you and others on this board would be saying it was clearly OPI like @ashley1992.

No I wouldn’t have. By the way, this is a great example of irrelevance. Take note

I don't blame that call on the Cowboys' loss or say the Bucs only won because of it. The Cowboys had too many blown opportunities to to win the game to blame it on one call or non-call. And I think the Bucs had several bad calls or non-calls go against them too. But I think that was OPI and pretty clearly.

May I recommend a good optometrist, then?

But a lot of good WRs get away with it. Moss did a lot when he was here. That is how the NFL works.

Exactly. Hand fighting is routine. That’s why both players said that after the game. What you’re trying to describe as a push-off was anything but.
 
The flop is relevant because it symbolizes the fact that there was really any OPI. Had there been, there wouldn’t have been a need to flop. Give it up, Rob. That’s not how relevance works. It’s relevant and it’s inconvenient for your case here.



1) Who cares what you and a “large number of people” think? A large number of people also think there was no OPI that was missed.

2) The DB definitely would have fallen to the ground regardless. He was back peddling, caught flat footed, had inside leverage on an outside throw, and had zero shot to make a play on the ball. Enter the head snap and the flop to try to draw OPI. Didn’t work. Know why? Because it wasn’t OPI and had no… chance… to… make… a… play… on… the… ball



Please explain how, exactly, he could have gotten a had on the ball if he was back peddling and had the wrong leverage on the throw? Do you think it’s possible that he could have defied the laws of physics? I’ve asked you to detail this for me already and you have yet to do it. Be very specific.



No, he couldn’t have. It would have been physically impossible for him to do that on a back peddle with inside leverage.



No I wouldn’t have. By the way, this is a great example of irrelevance. Take note



May I recommend a good optometrist, then?



Exactly. Hand fighting is routine. That’s why both players said that after the game. What you’re trying to describe as a push-off was anything but.

First, you say it was a flop. That is your opinion. That isn't fact. Or at least not a fact you have proven.

Second, are you saying that no defender has ever flopped on a legitimate OPI play? You are going to tell me that in the history of the NFL, a player has never flopped on a legitimate penalty and they only do it on non-existing penalties? If this is the best you have, I want to thank you for proving my point it is irrelevant.

Third, He was in position to make a play on the ball. He was there. The contact made him fall to the ground. The difference between that contact being good or making it bad was that Goodwin pushed off.

Fourth, a large percentage of the PI calls are players who physically probably impossible for victim of PI to actually catch the ball. But they are in the area and the perpetrator makes contact that is illegal. How many times have we seen a bomb into the end zone that a receiver probably would never had a chance to get and they draw the PI because the receiver is in the area where the ball is thrown? By your standards, a large percentage of the PI calls every year are really not PI calls.

Fifth, tell me who is your optometrist is because I want to avoid going to him because you want me to go to a good one. Not the one you use.

Sixth, funny I always thought when a receiver pushes a defender and extends his arm it is a push off. I would love to hear what you classify as a push off.

Seventh, yes you would have and you know it. And it is irrelevant to whether it was OPI. Never said it was. But unlike you, I don't claim irrelevant information is relevant to the discussion.
 
watching Brady last night with all those weapons just makes you wonder "what if"...Bill just gave him some talent at the WR position. TB can fit a boatlod of talent on both sides of the ball under the cap, yet the Pats could never even give Brady a #1 WR?
Let's see if the board can figure out what player recently said this. He said had Bill done a better job surrounding Tom with better players on offense, they would've won more Super Bowls.
 
We all know if that was Gronk in a Pats uniform it would be called OPI. Doesn't mean it was OPI.
 
First, you say it was a flop. That is your opinion. That isn't fact. Or at least not a fact you have proven.

It’s definitely a fact. You can tell by the way his head snapped back after the so-called “push.” You see this happen in the NBA all the time.

Second, are you saying that no defender has ever flopped on a legitimate OPI play? You are going to tell me that in the history of the NFL, a player has never flopped on a legitimate penalty and they only do it on non-existing penalties? If this is the best you have, I want to thank you for proving my point it is irrelevant.

That’s a nice straw man argument you’ve got going for yourself there.

Third, He was in position to make a play on the ball. He was there. The contact made him fall to the ground. The difference between that contact being good or making it bad was that Goodwin pushed off.

No, he most clearly wasn’t in position to make a play on the ball. The only way he would have been in a position to make a play on the ball is either…

A) By playing off coverage instead of press and, thus, having the ability to drive on the ball.

B) By taking outside leverage against Godwin if he’s in press (assuming the ball still goes to the outside).

He had neither going for him and was in a backpedal by the time Godwin turned for the ball. He’d have to have defied the laws of physics to have a chance of making a play on the ball. Want to know how you should be able to tell he didn’t have a chance on the ball? Because you can’t tell me how that would have been possible. You just keep saying, “he had a chance,” with absolutely nothing to back it up.

Fourth, a large percentage of the PI calls are players who physically probably impossible for victim of PI to actually catch the ball. But they are in the area and the perpetrator makes contact that is illegal. How many times have we seen a bomb into the end zone that a receiver probably would never had a chance to get and they draw the PI because the receiver is in the area where the ball is thrown?

Sure… if the contact by itself is enough to drive the defender to the ground. In this case, the DB had to visibly flop because it wasn’t and an OPI call was his only shot on the play

By your standards, a large percentage of the PI calls every year are really not PI calls.

Uhhh… they’re not. Refs blow DPI and OPI calls all the time. It happens every single game.

Fifth, tell me who is your optometrist is because I want to avoid going to him because you want me to go to a good one. Not the one you use.

This leads me to believe that you’re probably blind, then. Either that, or the dude you hired a few weeks back in assless chaps and S&M gear to choke you gouged your eyes out before he stole everything out of your wallet.

Sixth, funny I always thought when a receiver pushes a defender and extends his arm it is a push off. I would love to hear what you classify as a push off.

Usually, it’s when the arm fully extends in a way that obviously knocks the DB to the ground without the DB having to flop in order to sell it. You’ve been watching football for… how long… now, and you don’t this?

Seventh, yes you would have and you know it. And it is irrelevant to whether it was OPI. Never said it was. But unlike you, I don't claim irrelevant information is relevant to the discussion.

Is there a planet or some sort of alternate dimension in which this statement makes a lick of sense?
 
Everyone is talking about the Godwin play, but no one in the news media seems to suggest that it was a flop by the DB. I've only read that on this board.
 
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