Pats trade Sony Michel to LAR

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Yep. Dallas comes to mind taking Elliot over Ramsey. Elliot is a really good player, but did they really need him with their elite O-line? And how many more solid years does Elliot have left? It’s being proven you can talented RB’s in the 3rd-4th round.

Good points. Had they lost in 2018, the Sony hate would’ve gone up ten fold for sure.

Yep. I look at it this way. Regardless of the talent in front of him, he took advantage of his opportunity in 2018. We’ve seen a certain RB in the past have much attention taken away from him, yet had an underwhelming seasons overall. Who am I referring to guys?

Maroney?

I never understood that one...he came into his first game and looked like a Hall of Fame running back improvising and juking. Then from the outside it looked like the team changed his style - to conform with the schemes - and he never ran that way again.

It is funny, though, that if they'd closed out SB42 as they should have, players like Moss, Adalius Thomas, Welker, Maroney, and Mankins would be pumped up about 5X more than they are right now, even though they had zero control over the Giants final drive. There seem to be fans here who believe Michel was a better draft pick than Mankins because the team won.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Maroney?

Yes. He showed a ton of promise in 2006, then was pretty underwhelming in 2007 and declined from there. I agree his running style changed and looked somewhat misused trying to make him into a power runner. He was put in some really obvious formations making it easy for defenses to run downhill at him. I recall there were plenty of times defenders waiting in the backfield for him. Aside from that, there were plenty of times he declined to use his god given talent to bounce to a wide open outside, but take on 4-5 guys in a pile instead. His vision was atrocious.

It is funny, though, that if they'd closed out SB42 as they should have, players like Moss, Adalius Thomas, Welker, Maroney, and Mankins would be pumped up about 5X more than they are right now, even though they had zero control over the Giants final drive. There seem to be fans here who believe Michel was a better draft pick than Mankins because the team won.

That’s how the board works.

 

[50-yard-line]

Thoughts on Sony:

• I never disliked Sony per se, but I hated, and still hate, the idea of using a first round pick on a running back who isn’t either a generational talent or a phenomenal dual-threat, 3-down back. The value isn’t there. The upside isn’t there.

• I don’t think you can just call anyone who contributes to a championship a successful transaction/solid pick. It certainly helps the case, but it reeks of bias and inconsistency. On the other hand, you wouldn’t criticize the Patriots for drafting Mankins, trading for Welker or Moss, etc and call these bad moves just because the team didn’t win. Or think of it like this: if Dee Ford doesn’t jump offsides, if the Chiefs win the coin toss in OT, is Sony still a successful pick? And if they hadn’t drafted Sony, would another running back have put up comparable production in the 2018 postseason? It’s not so hard to believe that based on Sony’s skill level.

• Let’s be honest here: that 2018 offensive line was spectacular, especially in the run game. The offense improved when they started lining up smashmouth formations. Brown, Thuney, Andrews, Mason, Cannon, Develin blocking, two of the best blocking TEs in Gronk and Allen. Sony was never great, but he ran competently and took advantage of it.

• Most everyone had Sony ranked over Chubb. Other than the agonizing reality that they were in the same backfield in college and were drafted in the same range, there’s not much to see there. That’s the draft for you.

• I don’t consider Sony a bust as the #31 overall player. He was decent though certainly wasn’t a hit either.

Had some time to think about the trade...still hate it. I saw Michel this year as James White +.

As for why they drafted him when they did, they needed a RB who could come in and start from the get-go ,and protect Brady. Michel came out rated in the top three on almost every board, flip-flopping with Chubb often. But Chubb wasn't the blocker Michel was in college, and the Pats needed someone to start immediately. Obviously, Chubb has exceeded expectations - everyone's expectations! - his career thus far would have justified a top-half of Round 1 pick.

One point, though: if people are going to minimize Michel's 2018 accomplishments by touting the OL, Chubb's been running behind a top OL since he came out - maybe the best in football.

Sony Michel was worth the pick. as a feature in LA, wouldn't surprise me to see him score 1,000 on the ground and another 400 in the air (if, of course, he can stay healthy). RB is the most injured position in football. Fears much love Stevenson and we know he loves JJ, so I guess I have to trust that (Stevenson was the back I wanted most for them this year). They took the chance, but they get to keep the two for years, whereas Michel was a 1-year guy. (Heck, he might even come back if his legs hold up - who knows?).

Still hate the trade!

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Had some time to think about the trade...still hate it. I saw Michel this year as James White +.

As for why they drafted him when they did, they needed a RB who could come in and start from the get-go ,and protect Brady. Michel came out rated in the top three on almost every board, flip-flopping with Chubb often. But Chubb wasn't the blocker Michel was in college, and the Pats needed someone to start immediately. Obviously, Chubb has exceeded expectations - everyone's expectations! - his career thus far would have justified a top-half of Round 1 pick.

One point, though: if people are going to minimize Michel's 2018 accomplishments by touting the OL, Chubb's been running behind a top OL since he came out - maybe the best in football.

Sony Michel was worth the pick. as a feature in LA, wouldn't surprise me to see him score 1,000 on the ground and another 400 in the air (if, of course, he can stay healthy). RB is the most injured position in football. Fears much love Stevenson and we know he loves JJ, so I guess I have to trust that (Stevenson was the back I wanted most for them this year). They took the chance, but they get to keep the two for years, whereas Michel was a 1-year guy. (Heck, he might even come back if his legs hold up - who knows?).

Still hate the trade!

We see things differently on Sony; that's fine. I don't see him as anything like James White. Sony has 26 career receptions; in fact, I think trading him may have already been in the works when they extended White. I just see Sony as a guy who doesn't have elite power, doesn't have elite speed, doesn't have elite shiftiness/acceleration like White, doesn't have elite hands, and is just more of a B-/C+ RB all across the board. He does everything pretty well and doesn't have big weaknesses, but he also doesn't have a specific elite talent.

In LA, anything could happen. That system is pretty weird with running backs and how they use him; they had CJ Anderson a few years ago; they typically like speed/cut & run guys. No idea what they're thinking, but they have a lot of creativity with RBs in that scheme. Your projection of 1,000 yards ground, 400 ground, seems quite optimistic, but who knows. Whatever they do with him, they clearly think he'll be more essential to their team than the Patriots do to theirs.

 

[50-yard-line]

We see things differently on Sony; that's fine. I don't see him as anything like James White. Sony has 26 career receptions; in fact, I think trading him may have already been in the works when they extended White. I just see Sony as a guy who doesn't have elite power, doesn't have elite speed, doesn't have elite shiftiness/acceleration like White, doesn't have elite hands, and is just more of a B-/C+ RB all across the board. He does everything pretty well and doesn't have big weaknesses, but he also doesn't have a specific elite talent.

In LA, anything could happen. That system is pretty weird with running backs and how they use him; they had CJ Anderson a few years ago; they typically like speed/cut & run guys. No idea what they're thinking, but they have a lot of creativity with RBs in that scheme. Your projection of 1,000 yards ground, 400 ground, seems quite optimistic, but who knows. Whatever they do with him, they clearly think he'll be more essential to their team than the Patriots do to theirs.

Michel was over 900 in his first two seasons here in mostly RBBC schemes. Looked to me like he was running as well this summer as at any time since turning pro.

 

[VJCPatriot]

A 4th and a 6th for a 2nd string RB with knee problems that we were going to cut in a few weeks, more than we'd even get for FA compensation presuming we were eligible, which we won't be given how many FAs we signed?

Most fan bases would love having a GM that pulled that off. This one, not so much. All they do is moan about the cherry picked binkies that work out well for other teams while ignoring all the busts, as if there is one GM out there that only picks winners and never picks busts that we should have instead of BB.

Cherry picked binkies? How about almost ALL our WR bust picks from that genius GM over the past 20 years? Our only success stories - Julian Edelman and Deion Branch each picked a decade apart. Calm down dude.

BB has hit on some players yes, but his failure to upgrade the talent over the past 5 years has led this team into decline. That's why we had to go over the scrap heap to acquire a starting QB aka Cam Newton. That's why we had the worst TE group in the entire NFL the past 2-3 years. That's why our WR group was so pathetic they made some ironclad BB homers believe Brady was in decline when he clearly proved he was not by winning the Superbowl with the Tampa Bay "never made the playoffs in over a decade" Bucanneers the very next year after the Pats let him go. And that's why BB had to go into a free agency spending spree just to restock this team to a competitive level. The drafting SUCKED. BB fixed it with free agency and lucking out on the 49ers being dumb and letting Mac Jones drop to us. The TRUTH hurts. Now get OVER it.

 

[DaBruinz]

Cherry picked binkies? How about almost ALL our WR bust picks from that genius GM over the past 20 years? Our only success stories - Julian Edelman and Deion Branch each picked a decade apart. Calm down dude.

BB has hit on some players yes, but his failure to upgrade the talent over the past 5 years has led this team into decline. That's why we had to go over the scrap heap to acquire a starting QB aka Cam Newton. That's why we had the worst TE group in the entire NFL the past 2-3 years. That's why our WR group was so pathetic they made some ironclad BB homers believe Brady was in decline when he clearly proved he was not by winning the Superbowl with the Tampa Bay "never made the playoffs in over a decade" Bucanneers the very next year after the Pats let him go. And that's why BB had to go into a free agency spending spree just to restock this team to a competitive level. The drafting SUCKED. BB fixed it with free agency and lucking out on the 49ers being dumb and letting Mac Jones drop to us. The TRUTH hurts. Now get OVER it.

I love when people like yourself pretend BB has spend so much draft capital on WRs.. Newsflash. He hasn't. He PURPOSELY hasn't. Even if you take into consideration the picks used to trade for Welker and Moss, he hasn't spent much. The STEELERS have spent twice as much and have had as many early round busts at WR as BB has had in ALL of his WR picks.

We has the worst TE group while Gronkowski was still here? That's news to everyone.

The fact that you blame the WRs for Brady's issues shows how blind you are to the game.

BB went on a "spending spree" because the Pats had the Cap money to spend. NOT because the drafting sucked. YOU are the one who needs to get over yourself because everything you stated is YOUR OPINION. Not the truth.

 

[1960Pats]

To be fair, he came out of college pretty torn up.

Right. I remember thinking that he wouldn't last because of an issue with his knee.

 

[VJCPatriot]

We has the worst TE group while Gronkowski was still here? That's news to everyone.

The intentional cherrypicking by the BB toesuckers is laughable. 2019 and 2020 the Patriots had the WORST tight end numbers in the entire league. You can look up the numbers yourself on NFL.com. Stop being intentionally blind. And we all know BB drove Gronk into retirement so the lack of tight end talent, including failing to draft a replacement was self-inflicted. It's the same way BB showed Brady the door by saying there's no way you're getting a 2 year contract with us Tom, you still need to prove it to me after 20 years of service. And yet the BB devotees will insist that Tom wanted to leave. No Tom wanted to leave because his head coach didn't want him anymore, TRUTH hurts, get over it!

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Thoughts on Sony:

• I never disliked Sony per se, but I hated, and still hate, the idea of using a first round pick on a running back who isn’t either a generational talent or a phenomenal dual-threat, 3-down back. The value isn’t there. The upside isn’t there.

I used to get absolutely killed for saying no RB in round one but it sounds like you're coming around
It's not that I hate the position. It's just that you don't need spectacular there. Even a guy like Barkley, who is phenomenal. Is making top ten money, trouble in pass pro which kind of advertises what your trying to do. Obviously no OL doesn't help. I think the 2nd round is the sweet spot for any draft. Instead of 8-10 million per for a guy like Barkley, while Chubb was making less than a mill.

The real problem is taking one real high. Now you're seriously invested in a prospect and almost thinking about 2nd contracts. You take a player top 10-20 they should be in your plans for the long-term.

@TB_Helmet was looking at my grades and found that the 2nd round was a sweet spot for them I think. I think the 2nd is probably the sweet spot for the entire draft. He was busy with Covid but wanted to look into some draft time. Hope we see him soon.

• I don’t think you can just call anyone who contributes to a championship a successful transaction/solid pick. It certainly helps the case, but it reeks of bias and inconsistency. On the other hand, you wouldn’t criticize the Patriots for drafting Mankins, trading for Welker or Moss, etc and call these bad moves just because the team didn’t win. Or think of it like this: if Dee Ford doesn’t jump offsides, if the Chiefs win the coin toss in OT, is Sony still a successful pick? And if they hadn’t drafted Sony, would another running back have put up comparable production in the 2018 postseason? It’s not so hard to believe that based on Sony’s skill level.

• Let’s be honest here: that 2018 offensive line was spectacular, especially in the run game. The offense improved when they started lining up smashmouth formations. Brown, Thuney, Andrews, Mason, Cannon, Develin blocking, two of the best blocking TEs in Gronk and Allen. Sony was never great, but he ran competently and took advantage of it.

By the playoffs they were a great OL. Sony certainly wasn't a bust but saying we won the SB bc of him is kind of foolish and casual. You can't just put anyone back there but my goodness do someone overrate his contributions. I don't remember anyone saying we won bc of Malcolm Mitchell. Good players, solid work but let's stay steady.

• Most everyone had Sony ranked over Chubb. Other than the agonizing reality that they were in the same backfield in college and were drafted in the same range, there’s not much to see there. That’s the draft for you.

I was on record then saying he wouldn't have been my pick but I got the selection. They drafted two win-now guys that could in right away and help Brady.

Also no one should complain about where someone was drafted. Yes there are occasions like Jordan Richards but for the most part guys are going where the go. Maybe he didn't go top 32 but he wasn't making it out the top 40-50. I had Chubb > Sony but not by much. Coming out, unless you really loved one as a binky.

• I don’t consider Sony a bust as the #31 overall player. He was decent though certainly wasn’t a hit either.

I always remind myself in the history of the league no prospect has ever drafted themselves. Old saying ... Teams draft, teams bust, not players.

 

[203Pat]

It just sickens me that the POS is making baseless attacks against you and others who have shown, repeatedly, to base you opinions in actual fact.

You weren't even an active participant in this thread and he felt the need to disparage you.

If something on a Patriots forum "sickens" you it might be time to log off for a while.

 

[203Pat]

People thinking that this would be the year Sony would catch passes confuses me. He has played 3 seasons and averaged less than one reception per game each year. I don't know why anyone would say "This is the year though!"

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

You seriously need to be banned. Claiming that BGC is a clown just goes to show how ridiculous you are. BGC has more intelligence and knowledge about Football in his right pinkie toenail than you have in your entire body.
YOU are the one who is embarrassingly wrong about Football 99% of the time.
YOU are the clown. And you're a POS LIAR who who has ZERO reading comprehension At no point has BGC dissed Mac or Barmore. Nor has BGC insisted that Trey Lance was the "Best QB in the Draft".
Seriously. You're a F'in TROLL and need to be permanently banned..

It just sickens me that the POS is making baseless attacks against you and others who have shown, repeatedly, to base you opinions in actual fact.
You weren't even an active participant in this thread and he felt the need to disparage you.

BB went on a "spending spree" because the Pats had the Cap money to spend. NOT because the drafting sucked. YOU are the one who needs to get over yourself because everything you stated is YOUR OPINION. Not the truth.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

People thinking that this would be the year Sony would catch passes confuses me. He has played 3 seasons and averaged less than one reception per game each year. I don't know why anyone would say "This is the year though!"

Thanks McDaniels

 

[203Pat]

Thanks McDaniels

I never remember the poster that hates him but I am hoping Sony catches 50 passes this year out in LA just to see him go nuts lol.

 

[zydecochris]

...As for why they drafted him when they did, they needed a RB who could come in and start from the get-go ,and protect Brady. Michel came out rated in the top three on almost every board, flip-flopping with Chubb often. But Chubb wasn't the blocker Michel was in college, and the Pats needed someone to start immediately. Obviously, Chubb has exceeded expectations - everyone's expectations! - his career thus far would have justified a top-half of Round 1 pick.

...Sony Michel was worth the pick. as a feature in LA, wouldn't surprise me to see him score 1,000 on the ground and another 400 in the air (if, of course, he can stay healthy). RB is the most injured position in football. Fears much love Stevenson and we know he loves JJ, so I guess I have to trust that (Stevenson was the back I wanted most for them this year). They took the chance, but they get to keep the two for years, whereas Michel was a 1-year guy. (Heck, he might even come back if his legs hold up - who knows?).

Still hate the trade!

Agreed it not being a surprise if a healthy Michel gets 1000 yards on the ground and 400 in the air in LA. Especially the 400 yards in the air.

I only saw Georgia in a few games in Michel's last year, but he seemed to me to be pretty effective at receiving passes, and his draft profile said he was a very strong blocker in college (as you mentioned). I never understood why he wasn't used more in the passing game so that when he was in the backfield the defense had to guess between pass and run. However, the Pats coaches make mistakes but they aren't idiots, there must have been some reason. Maybe his college pass catching didn't translate to the NE style passing attack or that White was just such a phenomenal pass catching option that what he brought to the table on passing downs outweighed more pass/run deception.

I also didn't foresee the Patriots trading Michel, I thought he brought a lot to the table given his contract. I'm hoping it means that the Pats see a big year for J.J. Taylor and Michel was traded to make room for him. One can hope.

 

[50-yard-line]

People thinking that this would be the year Sony would catch passes confuses me. He has played 3 seasons and averaged less than one reception per game each year. I don't know why anyone would say "This is the year though!"

You can't catch a ball not thrown to you. Michel can catch, and can run well in space. He was 4-for-4 for 37 last week, and looked very comfortable doing it. Made some nice moves and got a nice first down, too. I have no idea why they weren't using him in that capacity, particularly given that the last two years, every time he went into the backfield, the D crowded the box for a run.

The telegraphing has been particularly frustrating.

Michel can catch and run quite well.

Still confused?

 

[1960Pats]

Hey, southern RI can't say "youse guys", that is reserved for those from Worcester. Stay in your lane.

I like youns.

 

[Bill Lee]

Cherry picked binkies? How about almost ALL our WR bust picks from that genius GM over the past 20 years? Our only success stories - Julian Edelman and Deion Branch each picked a decade apart. Calm down dude.

You don't seem to understand that scoring more than your opponent is what matters, not who has the best WRs. This isn't fantasy football.

The rest of your rant is absurd. Guess what, no one drafts perfect year after year. Since drafting is what matters so much to you, go find a team whose GM drafts perfectly and go root for them. Oh, you can't. Just what I thought. You can't even find a GM that consistently builds teams better than BB does. Still, find someone you think is better, and go root for them instead of being insufferable here.

You're the one that has to get OVER it, or GTFO.

 

[Deus Irae]

You can't catch a ball not thrown to you. Michel can catch, and can run well in space. He was 4-for-4 for 37 last week, and looked very comfortable doing it. Made some nice moves and got a nice first down, too. I have no idea why they weren't using him in that capacity, particularly given that the last two years, every time he went into the backfield, the D crowded the box for a run.

The telegraphing has been particularly frustrating.

Michel can catch and run quite well.

Still confused?