Jones = Chad Pennington 2002?

[Triumph]

Can someone tell me the difference between joe burrow and mac jones? Both lit it up in the championship game... Both had a pair of first round receivers.

Why does burrow get the love and jones the hate?

Burrow has not done a thing in the NFL.

There is film on him now that NFL teams have broken down and studied all off season. QBs prove themselves to be real or not in year 2 in the NFL and even then there is no guarantee. Brady struggled in 2002 because Marty Schottenhiemer figured out that Brady was less accurate if you moved him from his spot.

There is way too much hype with all these players. Trevor Lawrence is expected to deliver a Super Bowl in short order. Whats going to happen when there is no SuperBowl trophy in Jacksonville 5 years from now?

 

[PScottman]

QBs prove themselves to be real or not in year 2 in the NFL and even then there is no guarantee.

Way to look at it#1: Start rookie QBs early, see if they have adaptability enough to improve on how opposing coaches take away their tendencies.

Way to look at it #2: Start rookie QBs after a year or two, allow them to grow via your own staff taking away their tendencies seen in practice.

It is all a crapshoot anyway, but we know what Cam Newton is after his many years in the NFL and most don't think he's an answer either short or long term.

 

[Pats2000]

None of Bradys offensive teammates were drafted in round 1, or 2, or 3. The TE Aaron Shea went in the 4th to the Browns.

Poor old hard scrabble Mac had 2 of his WRs, a RB and the LT taken in round 1. 4 out the 5 Bama OL were drafted. They all should chip in and buy Mac a Rolex for making them millionaires.

The legend of Mac grows by the day. He only had a 4g Ipod when he was kid riding the bus to grade school.

Brady also didn't have the greatest statical year in the history of college football. That just shows that MJ knows how to use his players. If you've watched any film breakdown on him you can see he uses all of the little things right to freeze linebackers, look off his receivers, pump fake guys open and climb the pocket/escape the pocket to buy his receivers time to get open.

He also understands leverage and how to put the ball where only his receiver can catch it based on what the DB is giving him. He has great field vision waiting for the Safety to commit to a side of the field by opening his hips, then he throws the strike.

His accuracy is just amazing. He gets the ball with anticipation to exactly the right spot. Hitting his receivers in stride so they don't need to reach behind them or slow down. He can throw the ball 45 or 50 yards on a dime. He knows how to put touch on the pass when the situation calls for it, or can rock the ball into a tight window.

The guy is the most pro ready QB in the draft. What did Brady do with all world talent around him? Put up one of the best seasons in NFL history. All MJ did was the same thing and it wasn't just the talent, it was all the little things he did so his talent could succeed. Most of all he read the defense and put the ball exactly where it needed to go, in stride. Dude is an absolute stud

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Can someone tell me the difference between joe burrow and mac jones? Both lit it up in the championship game... Both had a pair of first round receivers.

Why does burrow get the love and jones the hate?

Mobility and narrative

Burrow had exceptional pocket presence under pressure whereas Jones isn't nearly as good there. Mobility like Deus said but also better creating in the pocket, creating a new platform. Jones has very good-great general accuracy but his placement suffers under pressure, behind his first read. Burrow had excellent placement. Jones is just as good throwing deep stuff. Burrow had double the # of tight window passes. Both have and win with great anticipation.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Burrow had exceptional pocket presence under pressure whereas Jones isn't nearly as good there. Mobility like Deus said but also better creating in the pocket, creating a new platform. Jones has very good-great general accuracy but his placement suffers under pressure, behind his first read. Burrow had excellent placement. Jones is just as good throwing deep stuff. Burrow had double the # of tight window passes. Both have and win with great anticipation.

Completely unsubstantiated claim, again, that Mac had poor accuracy beyond his first read. Absurd when Mac had a 77% completion rate all year and other people literally charted out every throw and accuracy among all 5 QBs and the least accurate QB was found to be Lance.

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[Sicilian]

Agree with your point, but would add Kapernick to the list of mobile qb SB runner ups

Thank you! I created my breakdown from a quick look at a SB final score list, and did my best to think of the QB's from memory. Must have blanked out on Kap.

 

[condon84]

I would take Pennington pre-injury. He was insanely accurate and would be more successful with better coaching/gameplans.

Mac has a stronger arm and if he can be as accurate and read defenses like Pennington then that's a homerun pick.

 

[Bill Lee]

Way to look at it#1: Start rookie QBs early, see if they have adaptability enough to improve on how opposing coaches take away their tendencies.

Way to look at it #2: Start rookie QBs after a year or two, allow them to grow via your own staff taking away their tendencies seen in practice.

It is all a crapshoot anyway, but we know what Cam Newton is after his many years in the NFL and most don't think he's an answer either short or long term.

Good way to frame the choices.

From what I've heard, it takes a while for a QB to come up to speed in our system so "early" is relative to how soon the QB can function well in the system. There's lots of evidence MJ is very intelligent, but still there's a lot of info to digest then you need to show you retained it all.

I think we're going to have to hope Cam is better than last season, he'll probably be our starter for the early part of the season, if not all of it.

 

[Pats2000]

Burrow had exceptional pocket presence under pressure whereas Jones isn't nearly as good there. Mobility like Deus said but also better creating in the pocket, creating a new platform. Jones has very good-great general accuracy but his placement suffers under pressure, behind his first read. Burrow had excellent placement. Jones is just as good throwing deep stuff. Burrow had double the # of tight window passes. Both have and win with great anticipation.

Jones has the best QBR under pressure in college football if I recall

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Completely unsubstantiated claim, again, that Mac had poor accuracy beyond his first read. Absurd when Mac had a 77% completion rate all year and other people literally charted out every throw and accuracy among all 5 QBs and the least accurate QB was found to be Lance.

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People that know what they're doing with A22 can isolate 2nd & 3rd reads, specifically break down after his first read. This isn't anything new, me & many others have been doing this for years. You just have no idea what you're talking about. That's more than evident by your awful post that read like there written in crayons.

How do you think people get a feel and % for tight window passes. Watch tape. You might as well find a new hobby. You've been on here for years but have 0 idea about the game, prospects, players. Go back to the kids table.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Completely unsubstantiated ... Yea if you're a muppet that has 0 idea what he's doing. Tight window passes ... If only people looked for this stuff and knew what they were doing.


Some you guys make it so hard to have an honest conversation with your Mac Jones PJ's on. No idea what you're talking about, watch highlights on a prospect you barely heard about until 2 months ago but you have it figured out.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Jones has the best QBR under pressure in college football if I recall

He was one of the least pressure QB's in football over the last few year's.

Not all pressure is created equal. How was he in & outside the pocket? How was he when his first read was covered? How many bodies was he navigating through? Was it off an RPO or PA or drop back?

He's not bad under pressure but if you actually watched him you'd see his footwork, placement and accuracy take a step back.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Jones has the best QBR under pressure in college football if I recall

It's a waste of time. You're going to get a lot of holier-than-thou responses back. The guy doesn't like to be challenged, he's got one worldview and even if it's wrong a ton of times he fancies himself as the resident know-it-all here. I initially respected the fact he clearly obsesses over re-tweeting what analysts say on twitter but then I realized he's not down for difference of opinion, even though the actual draft went way different from what he was recommending (Thank God).

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[DropKickFlutie]

Tight window passes ...

Why did you not list the source of where it came from, because it's not credible. Yeah I've seen this table before. Claiming Mac only threw 70 passes this way? C'mon. Use your brain, not all information is created equal. You keep spouting the myth that Mac only makes 50% of his 2nd or 3rd read throws. As if he's never pressured and only making easy 1st throw reads 90% of the time (nope). Look at the kid's actual tape. He practices a lot of good pocket slides to create time that aren't always counted as throwing 'under pressure'. And Mac making a great decision to throw to the open man, oftentimes isn't counted as a 'tight window pass'. That table doesn't even talk about 2nd or 3rd read throws so this doesn't back up this myth from you, and secondly the tight window passes aren't a problem if Mac is basically making excellent decisions almost all the time to the open guy (not a tight window pass). You are not using data correctly, making wrong conclusions, and thus missing the big picture.

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[Pats2000]

He was one of the least pressure QB's in football over the last few year's.

Not all pressure is created equal. How was he in & outside the pocket? How was he when his first read was covered? How many bodies was he navigating through? Was it off an RPO or PA or drop back?

He's not bad under pressure but if you actually watched him you'd see his footwork, placement and accuracy take a step back.

I watched a lot of plays where he got sent outside the pocket. He's not mahommes, he can't throw it 40 yards on a dime off balance. But neither can Brady. His accuracy on the move within 20 yards was great though

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Why did you not list the source of where it came from, because it's not credible. Yeah I've seen this table before. Claiming Mac only threw 70 passes this way? C'mon. Use your brain, not all information is created equal. You keep spouting the myth that Mac only makes 50% of his 2nd or 3rd read throws. As if he's never pressured and only making easy 1st throw reads 90% of the time (nope). Look at the kid's actual tape. He practices a lot of good pocket slides to create time that aren't always counted as throwing 'under pressure'. And Mac making a great decision to throw to the open man, oftentimes isn't counted as a 'tight window pass'. That table doesn't even talk about 2nd or 3rd read throws so this doesn't back up this myth from you, and secondly the tight window passes aren't a problem if Mac is basically making excellent decisions almost all the time to the open guy (not a tight window pass). You are not using data correctly, making wrong conclusions, and thus missing the big picture.

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You're too dumb to understand or follow. That "table" was specifically for tight window passes. It's another subject all together that I mentioned when someone asked the difference between Burrow & Jones.
Had nothing to do with his 2nd or 3rd read. That's been explained to you multiple times but you're dumb and have an agenda. You watch highlights on YT and steal your opinion from others, you're useless and not worth my time.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Brady struggled in 2002 because Marty Schottenhiemer figured out that Brady was less accurate if you moved him from his spot.

Ahh...2002. The year Pats fans and media hyped up the signing of Donald Hayes for no reason (me included). The legend of Steve Martin jogging after RB’s. Teams repeatedly running that fake jet sweep and handing it off to the RB’s as started by the Chiefs. And finally, that backbreaking shocking loss on SNF to the Jets. Pennington, the most telegraphed passer of all time, was throwing up his usual pop fly’s, yet the D couldn’t do a damn thing about it.

Aside from that, it was an exciting season with many Brady comebacks.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

I really hope we incorporate more vertical stuff into our offense. Mac's arm isn't that strong but he has great anticipation, really good accuracy and great touch here. His lack of arm strength and velocity show up at times but 45-50 yards he can throw a pretty ball that drops down nose first in a bucket. I compared him to other recent QB's like Burrow, Tua, Jimmy etc Mac's deep ball is better than all or at least as good as Burrow's but I'd say better. Tia was better short/intermediate but intermediate might be up for debate. Quicker release, more velocity but that's the easiest thing to improve on. Mac daddy will look a lot different this summer and next year. I bet his arm gets a little stronger as well. I really like his aggressiveness when it comes to taking deep shots and on the few tight window passes he did make he displayed plenty of it. He's a little more naturally aggressive in that respect than Brady, Tia or Burrow. I've shared these thoughts a few times and I believe Mac will look a lot different in a year or two. His body will look different, he'll get stronger so there's some upside there as well in terms of improving as a deep passer. I just hope Bill/Josh get aggressive as well. Whether it's Brady, Newton, Jimmy, Jacoby or Cassell we haven't been a vertical team. I fell into the trap last year. It didn't happen for various reasons but it was the same offense more or less with some other stuff thrown in
...
And speaking of that I really hope we keep the RPO stuff we ran last year. All these guys coming out of college love it for different reasons. It's such a familiar part of their game, the game nowadays, starting from high school. Plus it's a built-in mover on read defenders - 2nd level/hook. He's extremely comfortable coming out of it. Helps him get in rhythm.

I'm hoping we're more flexible with Mac and really fine tune the offense to him.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

You're too dumb to understand or follow. That "table" was specifically for tight window passes. It's another subject all together that I mentioned when someone asked the difference between Burrow & Jones.
Had nothing to do with his 2nd or 3rd read. That's been explained to you multiple times but you're dumb and have an agenda. You watch highlights on YT and steal your opinion from others, you're useless and not worth my time.

I just explained above to you why this table is garbage and also doesn't mean anything even when it comes to tight window passes. And you still refuse to cite the crappy source.

It's sad you clearly spend a ton of time on this but then are hostile when any opinion disagrees with you. You have no foundation to back up 50% completion on 2nd and 3rd reads, and the tight window claim means nothing.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

I just explained above to you why this table is garbage and also doesn't mean anything even when it comes to tight window passes. And you still refuse to cite the crappy source.

You didn't explain anything. That's a laugh. You explain nothing and offer 0 insight. It's been posted before it's PFF genius.

It's sad you clearly spend a ton of time on this but then are hostile when any opinion disagrees with you. You have no foundation to back up 50% completion on 2nd and 3rd reads, and the tight window claim means nothing.

I disagree with a lot of people and have np. I'm dragging you bc you're a loser who likes to spam threads with misinformation. You also have 0 original thought. Nobody comes here to read you or that nonsense.

I'd find another hobby tbh. You've been posting on a football site for over 10 years but have insight on the game. You provide and contribute nothing. Just a waste of time.