Jones = Chad Pennington 2002?

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Tbh I only skimmed Ben's. I didn't even know about it until I read Mark's which just cam out. Tried to give Lazar a click or I did but the piece wouldn't fully come up.

So the only problem I have with Mac is vs some pressure and in terms of placement or w/e is when he's off-platform, forced to manipulate - off his spot. He can absolutely anticipate and move - work a pocket but has trouble against certain types of pressure imo. His anticipation is really good but I'd like to see vs real NFL pressure to really seal the deal. Specifically with linear speed, coming right at him and maneuvering around bodies at his feet, grabbing at him. Might seem like nitpicking but I believe they're legit concerns. I don't see any deal breakers and he could absolutely improve in these areas. I wrote more than a few times I expect him get stronger, transform his body. So that'll only help there.

I didn't read Ben's charting tbh, not sure if that was his contextualized piece but you know me I'm in my own bacon bubble.

Mac has fine placement. It's not "elite" imo but it doesn't have to be. I didn't see it touched on but I believe he has a little upside in the arm. I'm not an expert on mechanics and most QB's won't even think about touching them unless they have to but I believe he could tweak up top and possible unleash some real velocity.

Anyway his anticipation is almost top notch or w/e you want to call it. He makes up for a lot with his awareness & decision making.

That why I cautioned readers with "what you're asked to do" vs "what can you do". I agree I don't see a problem. Bill has already shown to be flexible on both sides. We saw Cam running zone read, toss etc last year, Bill, Josh & co aren't perfect but they're great at what they do. The game plan will be tailor made to his strengths.

This is why I've been writing, not so much "hoping" bc I believe the RPO is here to stay with either QB but believe it's important. Particularly for a young QB coming out. All these kids love it, it's part of their game now, all of them for the most part or PA. Gets them in rhythm, gives them options, it translates. Second level - read defenders hate it (RPO).

I also believe Mac is a little more naturally aggressive or w/e you want to call it so I hope we let him pull the trigger and expand our strike zone so to speak a little. He's shown he's capable and able and again he got a little way about him. I hope that confidence and moxy is the same moving forward.

There's a lot to be excited about though. This OL has tremendous potential, I'm as excited as I've ever been there. If we stay healthy, can add someone else into mix for creative, depth purposes we're golden and have a top 5-10 OL imo. So much athleticism there.

And our targets are really going underrated here. I mentioned it a bunch but it's perfectly set up for someone who likes to work the MOF -Inside/Outside. Take shots off PA. Seam (Henry, Smith), boundary (Bourne, NA), shallow-MOF (White, Meyers, Bourne). A little luck, Harris stays healthy with our line and I could see having a very different, a lot more efficient, dangerous offense with competent QB play.

Ben is 21 and leading the charge ahead of Mark and Evan (kind of late to the party lol) on the stuff Bacon has been telling you for months. Again if you've been reading my post you already knew a lot of this. At the end of reading remember "what you're asked to do" isn't the same as "what can you. Bill has already shown he's flexible. The RPO should be here to stay though. Let Mac pulp the trigger on some deep(er) stuff. Am I crazy for thinking Bourne is going to be a great fit, WR1/2? Not target but I think he has a low key shot at stepping right in and taking off. He's very adapt at working the MOF. Finding space, working leverage routes and you know he'll fight for a few yards. Mac was probably top 3-5 working MOF last year. This could be a fun offense with competent QB play. And don't get me started to the defense. Bill is going to terrorize QB's this year.

Interesting look back. Not easy being this good, ahead of the curve but I do it for you guys!!! I hope you get it. You're the reason I'm great, not me.

 

[TheRazorsEdge]

Interesting look back. Not easy being this good, ahead of the curve but I do it for you guys!!! I hope you get it. You're the reason I'm great, not me.

What is your prediction going into year 2? What will you be looking at in terms of nessecary improvements for both Mac and the offense in general?

 

[Marko]

Scouts are wrong. Without hyperbole I don't see why he can't be like 2001 Brady.

Mac has a way better deep ball than Chad ever did. He's an ultra hard worker and prepared for every single snap or defense or read. He's got quick side to side slides in the pocket.

Agreed, I vividly remember Chad having a weak arm. I know that’s the book on Mac, but I just don’t see it like I did with Chad. The reason I remember it so well was I used to rail at the TV because the mediots claimed Brady had a weak arm, and it pissed me off that you could get a cup of coffee while Chad”s passes were in the air, and they never said anything about him. (This was pre injury)

 

[Kdo5]

If he’s a healthy Pennington that’s not terrible.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

What is your prediction going into year 2? What will you be looking at in terms of nessecary improvements for both Mac and the offense in general?

Pre / Post snap.
Mac played a little too fast and slow at times post snap. Few examples ... Mac will be a tick slow at anticipating how quick defenders can recover. Like the INT targeting Bolden I believe against Indy. He needed a little more zip on it but was just off at anticipating just how fast space can be taken away. We saw that a few times this year.
The reverse, if you will is true as well. Like he'll checkdown a bit too soon in certain situations rather than waiting or manipulating the pocket a little more to find Agholor or Henry breaking on an over route. We've seen that with each at least 4-5 times imo. Believe it or Smith as well. There were a few instances in the Fins game of that happening.

I mentioned it several times during the year but the way he commands the offense in between plays. We were slowing getting set, guys were out of place, looking around at the line.

More command in between plays. This is his offense now. Find a consistent rhythm, play with a little more patience but able to hurry up when needed.

I've said, maybe even in that post, he'll look like a new man next year body-wise. I think that's huge in terms of his overall arm strength. He needs to really have his feet set in order to get everything behind a pass. Obviously that's not always going to be able to happen so any help is big in that area. A little more velocity will go a long way.

Tighten up his mechanics. I'm not an expert but he could improve his footwork. I think he could get a little stronger in his lower half which should help stabilizing himself easier. Having a little more balance. I think his release could tighten up some and get a little quicker.

If I was him I'd take January off all together and start a new life in terms of health - healthy living in Feb. Diets don't work. Make a real lifestyle change in that area. That will become normal and not work after a few months. So hopefully the body and arm strength arm improve naturally. Even slightly would make a difference.

Next I'd pick one thing and try to master it. Any of the above if it were up to me. Pick one thing and spend 80% of your time focusing on that. Fill in the rest by choice but focus on one thing particular.

I've heard a lot of great athletes say this. Jordan, Rodgers and maybe even Brady. I think Rodgers might have mentioned Brady. Anyway it makes sense imo. In 2-3 years with his drive and dedication he could be a real top 10-12 QB if he takes this approach.

Max out mentally, above the shoulders. That's what's makes him who he is. Max that out as much as he can. He won't transform into another person but just make gains where you can. He doesn't need to throw it 100mph 85 yards. Small improvements would go a long way there imo.

 

[Chevy]

Pennington, before his shoulder was busted up, was a very good QB. Even after, with the weakest arm in the league, he was smart enough to get by.

IIRC even with the shoulder issues he had very good touch - a major attribute Mac shares with him.

 

[TheRainMaker]

How did Chad come into Gillette and drop so many bombs on the Pats secondary in the 31-17 beatdown in 2002?

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Pre / Post snap.
Mac played a little too fast and slow at times post snap. Few examples ... Mac will be a tick slow at anticipating how quick defenders can recover. Like the INT targeting Bolden I believe against Indy. He needed a little more zip on it but was just off at anticipating just how fast space can be taken away. We saw that a few times this year.
The reverse, if you will is true as well. Like he'll checkdown a bit too soon in certain situations rather than waiting or manipulating the pocket a little more to find Agholor or Henry breaking on an over route. We've seen that with each at least 4-5 times imo. Believe it or Smith as well. There were a few instances in the Fins game of that happening.

I mentioned it several times during the year but the way he commands the offense in between plays. We were slowing getting set, guys were out of place, looking around at the line.

More command in between plays. This is his offense now. Find a consistent rhythm, play with a little more patience but able to hurry up when needed.

I've said, maybe even in that post, he'll look like a new man next year body-wise. I think that's huge in terms of his overall arm strength. He needs to really have his feet set in order to get everything behind a pass. Obviously that's not always going to be able to happen so any help is big in that area. A little more velocity will go a long way.

Tighten up his mechanics. I'm not an expert but he could improve his footwork. I think he could get a little stronger in his lower half which should help stabilizing himself easier. Having a little more balance. I think his release could tighten up some and get a little quicker.

If I was him I'd take January off all together and start a new life in terms of health - healthy living in Feb. Diets don't work. Make a real lifestyle change in that area. That will become normal and not work after a few months. So hopefully the body and arm strength arm improve naturally. Even slightly would make a difference.

Next I'd pick one thing and try to master it. Any of the above if it were up to me. Pick one thing and spend 80% of your time focusing on that. Fill in the rest by choice but focus on one thing particular.

I've heard a lot of great athletes say this. Jordan, Rodgers and maybe even Brady. I think Rodgers might have mentioned Brady. Anyway it makes sense imo. In 2-3 years with his drive and dedication he could be a real top 10-12 QB if he takes this approach.

Max out mentally, above the shoulders. That's what's makes him who he is. Max that out as much as he can. He won't transform into another person but just make gains where you can. He doesn't need to throw it 100mph 85 yards. Small improvements would go a long way there imo.

Jesus…based on the conclusion here (top 10-12 QB if all works out), I think the Patriots should just continue drafting QBs. The nightmare scenario, to me, is spending years on a guy whose ceiling gives you little chance to compete against the great ones. After seeing the absurd skill level of Mahomes and Allen this last weekend, I’d rather go with a guy who at least has a chance to be a superstar, even if the floor is lower.

 

[Triumph]

Jets coaches called Penny "Noodle Arm"

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Jesus…based on the conclusion here (top 10-12 QB if all works out), I think the Patriots should just continue drafting QBs. The nightmare scenario, to me, is spending years on a guy whose ceiling gives you little chance to compete against the great ones. After seeing the absurd skill level of Mahomes and Allen this last weekend, I’d rather go with a guy who at least has a chance to be a superstar, even if the floor is lower.

I hear you. Every once and a while we'll see the gap between a "good" QB and an elite one and it's a big gap.

Like you can win with Cousins, Carr and Jimmy but have little room for error. They can't and won't cover up mistakes. They won't carry you. You need a lot in order to win but that's life without an elite guy back there.

Just thought it was interesting to bump this thread. I got a lot of **** for how I wrote about and describe Mac before he was here, before the draft.

Not going to lie I like being right and pointing it. Potentially unlocking his arm through mechanics. How he dealt with pressure. Use of RPO. Comps to Chad, Carr, Cousins etc ... Turns out me and Lance Zierlein know what we're talking about and a few posters on Pats Fans are half-re/tarded.

 

[Wax Frog]

...a few posters on Pats Fans are half-re/tarded.

Only a few?

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Only a few?

Oh we definitely have a few here with a puddle of drool on their shirt. Headbutting the keyboard to type. Push/Pull doors ruining their day.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Jesus…based on the conclusion here (top 10-12 QB if all works out), I think the Patriots should just continue drafting QBs. The nightmare scenario, to me, is spending years on a guy whose ceiling gives you little chance to compete against the great ones. After seeing the absurd skill level of Mahomes and Allen this last weekend, I’d rather go with a guy who at least has a chance to be a superstar, even if the floor is lower.

One example of the difference. Remembered this when thinking about good vs elite. It's hindsight I'll admit that but KC absolutely should have started Patty the baddy. Supposedly he knew the playbook inside & out. Obviously NFL ready in terms of talent.


Anyway I think Mac has a shot at top 10-12 if a lot goes right but it's on the mental side of things. Becoming a puppet master of sorts. That's his upside along with unleashing some arm talent and becoming as mechanical sound as he can.

I get what you're saying about drafting QB's though. Maybe not early but even in the late rounds. Hitting on one, just one is everything and then some. Some teams never had one. In the history of the league some teams never had a real franchise QB.

You have a thread on QB's. How many legit, true franchise QB's have there been? Guys that can carry you. Create a little magic. Guys that are the system. 25-30?

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Scouts are wrong. Without hyperbole I don't see why he can't be like 2001 Brady.

Mac has a way better deep ball than Chad ever did. He's an ultra hard worker and prepared for every single snap or defense or read. He's got quick side to side slides in the pocket.

Since this thread was bumped because loser pathetic construction guys are desperate for attention/recognition, just calling out I'm glad I was driving the Mac bandwagon first not only here on Pg1 but also many other threads several months way earlier.

Construction guy 6 months late on everything:
"Hey guys, hot take here based on me parroting twitter, guess what turns out Jonnu isn't a good blocker, our personnel has multiple pass catchers for middle of the field, Mac is a good prospect, and the Pats DLine isn't good. I'll come back for more once it's blatantly obvious 6 months late, and don't you dare steal my ideas. Back to laying pergo tiles and installing toilets".

.

 

[Toofy]

Check the chiefs cap space, they have 4 superstars on offense and 2 defensive superstars and are doing the rest with middle of the pack guys. Yes , if hill or Kelce are injured they are toast , but the formula seems to work .

No point having too many middle classmen because come the playoffs you could be beaten by one of these speedy offenses .

Maybe shanahan saw that evolution a while back while deciding to punt on trey Lance.

Unless they tweak rules, I feel defense will become obsolete in the new NFL.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Check the chiefs cap space, they have 4 superstars on offense and 2 defensive superstars and are doing the rest with middle of the pack guys. Yes , if hill or Kelce are injured they are toast , but the formula seems to work .

No point having too many middle classmen because come the playoffs you could be beaten by one of these speedy offenses .

Maybe shanahan saw that evolution a while back while deciding to punt on trey Lance.

Unless they tweak rules, I feel defense will become obsolete in the new NFL.

Defense just doesn't translate in the NFL anymore. Back in the day there used to be teams with defenses that translated year to year. Now it just doesn't even if you keep groups together. It's almost like you have to change for the sake of it bc offenses will adjust and find a way to exploit.

Having Paddy helps. He's having the greatest start we've ever seen in a lot of ways. Just the ultimate trump card.

 

[Joker]

LPCG...change you handle to that Bacon...I heard you built a deck for Eliot Wolf that didn't even have one right angle in it. No wonder the person responsible for any/all great Patriots draft picks is jumping ship.

 

[Toofy]

Defense just doesn't translate in the NFL anymore. Back in the day there used to be teams with defenses that translated year to year. Now it just doesn't even if you keep groups together. It's almost like you have to change for the sake of it bc offenses will adjust and find a way to exploit.

Having Paddy helps. He's having the greatest start we've ever seen in a lot of ways. Just the ultimate trump card.

thats why i feel spending top draft picks on defense is useless now. we can win the odd game here and there but will mostly be a non factor in playoffs. Time to start double dipping in wide receivers till we strike gold . Anyways our linebackers and DBs drafted in 2nd - 3rd round are borderline useless barring barmore and dugger .

Just a note to Bill and Josh.. speed and route running are not overrated.. height and athleticism are...

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

thats why i feel spending top draft picks on defense is useless now. we can win the odd game here and there but will mostly be a non factor in playoffs. Time to start double dipping in wide receivers till we strike gold . Anyways our linebackers and DBs drafted in 2nd - 3rd round are borderline useless barring barmore and dugger .

It's tough bc great players always translate. You want them on all sides at key positions. I just think between the rules, offenses being ahead of the curve in some areas (QB's that can run / 11 on true 11) and defenses getting stale you might have to switch it up or really try to evolve on some ways to put a dent in offenses. Granted Paddy and Allen are top 5 QB's this year but almost 30 points in 2 mins is nuts and we see in different forms every week.

Just a note to Bill and Josh.. speed and route running are not overrated.. height and athleticism are...

I think Nick was the Height Weight Speed guy. I doubt we're listening to Josh that much if he's so bad at evaluating too. I think he drove the QB bus this off-season bc he was on the road. Him & Mac were tied at the hip right after he was drafted.

The inner workings of that stuff is fascinating for sure.

 

[Chevy]

Oh we definitely have a few here with a puddle of drool on their shirt. Headbutting the keyboard to type. Push/Pull doors ruining their day.

I hate those doors!