Jones = Chad Pennington 2002?

[IllegalContact]

Quite a bit of cherry picking going on here.

You leave out all SIX of Drew Brees 70% completion seasons as if they didn't exist just to bolster your argument.

Chad Pennington never reached the 70% completion mark in his entire career, rotator cuff injury or not.

Drew Brees completion percentages Age 31-41. 71.2, 70, 72, 74.4, 74,3, 70.5. And those bolded percentages indicate he led the entire NFL in completion percentages 5 times.

Another factor you don't consider is pass attempts. The less times you pass, the easier it is to get a higher percentage. With larger volumes of passing you usually tend to get a lower pass percentage. Consider that Brees made over 500 pass attempts in 8 of his age 31-41 seasons. Meanwhile Chad Pennington never made over 500 pass attempts in a single season his entire career. Brees ended with a career pass completion rate of 67.7% in over 10500 pass attempts while Pennington ended up with 66.0% in just 2471 attempts. Both in terms of sheer volume and overall accuracy, Brees is far more impressive.

70.6	4388	34	6.6	11	2.1	210	75	8.5	8.9	12.1	292.5	109.6	82.0	20	135	7.96	8.31	3.7	2	4	16
2010*	31	NOR	QB	9	16	16	11-5-0	448	658	68.1	4620	33	5.0	22	3.3	238	80	7.0	6.5	10.3	288.8	90.9	70.8	25	185	6.49	6.01	3.7	4	5	14
2011*	32	NOR	QB	9	16	16	13-3-0	468	657	71.2	5476	46	7.0	14	2.1	279	79	8.3	8.8	11.7	342.3	110.6	82.3	24	158	7.81	8.23	3.5	3	4	20
2012*	33	NOR	QB	9	16	16	7-9-0	422	670	63.0	5177	43	6.4	19	2.8	266	80	7.7	7.7	12.3	323.6	96.3	68.7	26	190	7.17	7.17	3.7	1	2	15
2013*	34	NOR	QB	9	16	16	11-5-0	446	650	68.6	5162	39	6.0	12	1.8	246	76	7.9	8.3	11.6	322.6	104.7	69.1	37	244	7.16	7.51	5.4	2	2	17
2014*	35	NOR	QB	9	16	16	7-9-0	456	659	69.2	4952	33	5.0	17	2.6	259	69	7.5	7.4	10.9	309.5	97.0	74.8	29	186	6.93	6.77	4.2	2	2	16
2015	36	NOR	QB	9	15	15	7-8-0	428	627	68.3	4870	32	5.1	11	1.8	228	80	7.8	8.0	11.4	324.7	101.0	66.8	31	235	7.04	7.26	4.7	1	2	14
2016*	37	NOR	QB	9	16	16	7-9-0	471	673	70.0	5208	37	5.5	15	2.2	265	98	7.7	7.8	11.1	325.5	101.7	66.8	27	184	7.18	7.27	3.9	2	4	16
2017*	38	NOR	QB	9	16	16	11-5-0	386	536	72.0	4334	23	4.3	8	1.5	203	54	8.1	8.3	11.2	270.9	103.9	62.5	20	145	7.53	7.71	3.6	2	2	17
2018*	39	NOR	QB	9	15	15	13-2-0	364	489	74.4	3992	32	6.5	5	1.0	223	72	8.2	9.0	11.0	266.1	115.7	79.2	17	121	7.65	8.47	3.4	6	7	16
2019*	40	NOR	QB	9	11	11	8-3-0	281	378	74.3	2979	27	7.1	4	1.1	159	61	7.9	8.8	10.6	270.8	116.3	73.3	12	89	7.41	8.33	3.1	1	2	10
2020	41	NOR	QB	9	12	12	9-3-0	275	390	70.5	2942	24	6.2	6	1.5	149	52	7.5	8.1	10.7	245.2	106.4	74.6	13	89	7.08	7.60	3.2	1	3	9

Playing indoors skews the numbers

 

[IllegalContact]

I am enjoying this thread.

Not too often a Jet fan gets to read a discussion complimenting a Jet player.

Even if it's only in hopes their similar young player will succeed... I'll take it.

Yeah Chad was fun to watch. Smart, accurate, had guts, but would put up floaters that seemed to hang forever... yet usually connected.

I actually am rooting for Jones. It'd be pretty fun having 3 or 4 good young QBs in the division. Would make for some great division rivalries for the next decade+.

I recall the Robertson > Wilfork mandate jets fans made in the day......the cuteness of the moment drowned out the crunchin in dewaynes knees

 

[Triumph]

Prior to last season, the general consensus is that Mac Jones had little to no shot to become the 2020 Alabama starting QB because Bryce Young was the heir apparent of Tua. But Mac Jones beat him out.

And the last time I checked, Jones had an All World type of performance in the national championship game and didn't choke throwing for 464 yards and 5 TDs. Meanwhile, you know who did to a certain extent? Justin Fields.

And everyone says he has more of the temperament of Brady.

But I think it is funny that you are mocking me for saying that just because I said comparing Jones to Pennington doesn't mean Jones will choke like Pennington did in the playoffs. Yet you seem to think it is a forgone conclusion Jones will choke in big situations when all the evidence we have (although I admit limited) says he won't.

None of Bradys offensive teammates were drafted in round 1, or 2, or 3. The TE Aaron Shea went in the 4th to the Browns.

Poor old hard scrabble Mac had 2 of his WRs, a RB and the LT taken in round 1. 4 out the 5 Bama OL were drafted. They all should chip in and buy Mac a Rolex for making them millionaires.

The legend of Mac grows by the day. He only had a 4g Ipod when he was kid riding the bus to grade school.

 

[BTTA]

LOL. Cherrypicking 1 game does not make Chad Pennington better than Peyton Manning. I don't know what y'all are smoking. Pennington was an average NFL pro QB. Nothing more than that. Maybe if he had stayed healthy he could have done more but he never did.

That's the whole point of the comparison...what Pennington WOULD HAVE BEEN had he not gotten injured. It isn't that Pennington had a comparable career to Brees or Manning or any of the greats. Nobody in their right mind would suggest that. You are yelling at a wall.

 

[RobertWeathers]

None of Bradys offensive teammates were drafted in round 1, or 2, or 3. The TE Aaron Shea went in the 4th to the Browns.

Poor old hard scrabble Mac had 2 of his WRs, a RB and the LT taken in round 1. 4 out the 5 Bama OL were drafted. They all should chip in and buy Mac a Rolex for making them millionaires.

The legend of Mac grows by the day. He only had a 4g Ipod when he was kid riding the bus to grade school.

Actually Brady had a number of offensive teammates drafted after the 1999 season in Rds 1,2 and 3. Thomas, Terrell, Askew and Walker

 

[Rob0729]

None of Bradys offensive teammates were drafted in round 1, or 2, or 3. The TE Aaron Shea went in the 4th to the Browns.

Poor old hard scrabble Mac had 2 of his WRs, a RB and the LT taken in round 1. 4 out the 5 Bama OL were drafted. They all should chip in and buy Mac a Rolex for making them millionaires.

The legend of Mac grows by the day. He only had a 4g Ipod when he was kid riding the bus to grade school.

I am not saying Jones is Brady. And Brady didn't do anything in college. Hence why he went in the sixth round. And the Brady that came out of college would have been out of the league in a couple of years. Brady had to work really hard to retool himself and improve his mechanics to become the QB he is today and for his career. Maybe Jones can do that too. Obviously, he will never be Brady, but maybe he will be a top QB the league. Who knows? He is already way ahead of where Brady was coming out of college.

And I was addressing you saying Pennington choked in the playoffs implying the Pennington comparisons means that Jones will choke in big spots too. I am pointing out that Jones had one of the best games of his career if not his best game in the biggest game of his career thus far.

And what is this legend of Mac Jones crap. This thread is comparing him to Chad Pennington, not Tom Brady or Peyton Manning. Even if Pennington stayed healthy his entire career and built on his 2002 season, he would probably be remembered today as a very good QB and not an elite or HOF QB.

I compared Jones' temperament to Brady's but that doesn't speak to his playing ability. A lot of players have had the same temperament as Brady and done nothing with their career because they just didn't have the talent.

You might want to look in the mirror. As much as you are accusing people of overhyping Jones, you are going the opposite direction to disparage the guy because you didn't like the pick.

 

[fair catch fryar]

That's actually pretty fair comparison....that dramatically ends when you consider the respective teams they were drafted by. Then the comparison becomes

 

[Brotherblues]

That's actually pretty fair comparison....that dramatically ends when you consider the respective teams they were drafted by. Then the comparison becomesView attachment 32752View attachment 32753

The jete green so fitting

 

[Bill Lee]

The actual quote that people are using to get pumped up about Jones is:

"The basement on Mac Jones, from everyone you talk to, the basement is Kirk Cousins," Schrager said. "The ceiling, if he's unbelievable, and he's the perfect prospect ... might be Drew Brees."

So, it's a very, very qualified comp to Brees. Please note the use of the words "if" and "might"... Hope it becomes true, but we're a long way from there.

I think a slightly better comp for Jones would be Ryan Tannehill, who's got a better arm and is little more athletic than Pennington. If Jones could become Tannehill, or Tannehill with better intangibles, I'd be happy.

Tannehill also didn't have an abundance of good coaching early in his NFL career. Made a nice jump when he got away from Crazy Eyes Gaze.

The West Coast offense that San Francisco 49ers head coach Bill Walsh pioneered was actually put together by Walsh when he was QBs coach at Cincinnati. It was to take advantage of the uncanny accuracy in short passes of QB Greg Cook. But three games into his career, Cook tore his rotator cuff and was never a decent player again. Then Walsh got Ken Anderson. Then Walsh went to SF and got Joe Montana, who would also be on the high accuracy short list.

For anyone wanting insight on this aspect of NFL history, read the long form from the late, great Chris Wesseling:

Chronicles of offensive football in the Ohio River region

The official source for NFL news, video highlights, fantasy football, game-day coverage, schedules, stats, scores and more.

www.nfl.com

A few lines on Cook:

"I think Greg Cook would have been mentioned, had he had a full career, with the greatest quarterbacks in the history of the league," said Sam Wyche, Cook's backup and eventually the Bengals' head coach. "He had everything. He had size, a rifle arm, he had a Terry Bradshaw kind or release. ... He had running ability, he was good-looking. He would have had the endorsements."

Wyche might actually be underselling that unique talent. Cook was viewed as Football Adonis. Sports Illustrated's Paul "Dr. Z" Zimmerman once described him as a "blond-haired football god." Legendary Dallas Cowboys talent scout Gil Brandt casually refers to Cook as "the golden boy from Chillicothe, Ohio."

"Greg Cook was, I believe, the greatest talent to play the position," Hall of Fame coach Bill Walsh once said. "He was Steve Young, but bigger."

The way Chris tells the story, the WC offense was developed to try to make up for the fact that Cook's replacement did not have a strong arm:

The architect of the West Coast offense acknowledged years later that his famed scheme would have been "completely different" if not for Cook's injury.
"It would have started with the deep strike," Walsh said, "and everything would have played off that. It would have set records that never would be broken."
Once the Bengals realized Cook's arm was shot, however, they were forced to trade for the Buffalo Bills' Virgil Carter as an emergency replacement.

---

---

"Carter was a godsend to us in 1970," Brown explained in his autobiography, "PB: The Paul Brown Story," "especially considering we picked him up two weeks before the season began."

A godsend he may have been, but Carter simply didn't have the arm to succeed in the long passing attack designed for Cook. So Brown and Walsh went to work, concocting the first incarnation of what would eventually become the West Coast offense: a horizontal, ball-control passing scheme intended to compensate for Carter's physical shortcomings while also hiding an expansion-team-caliber offensive line.

"We convinced him that by lowering the ball's trajectory, he could throw with more velocity and even greater accuracy," Brown wrote. "Combining this with a special roll-out type of offense we designed for him, we had an attack that no one could figure out until the season was almost over."

To be honest, a lot of this reminds me of the transition from cannon-armed Drew Bledsoe to 'less endowed' Tom Brady.

Seriously I think that's a very overlooked factor with Jones. People see the bit of extra fat in his body and focus only on him not having an athlete's physique. To me it just means that his arm strength and athleticism are not yet completely unlocked. I mean seriously, this guy has the mental part down, and you can't teach that. And his body shows that the weakest parts of his game (arm and athleticism) can be vastly improved by a bit of stricter training. Like seriously I was more excited for his prospects once I saw his body had such potential for improvement.

I definitely think there is a strong chance that he'll make the best of this opportunity and continue to develop both mentally and physically.

Mac Jones has better coaches than Chad Pennington ever did.

Very true. Also, as above, IMO he throws a better deep ball, and clearly he's played under a lot more pressure, having won a National Championship. Heck, being a starter at a big program such as Alabama alone brings a lot of pressure with it.

I think we're gonna need to be patient and wait and see when the coaching staff feels he's ready to play. IMO it may not be this season.

 

[fair catch fryar]

The jete green so fitting

Thanks for the suggestion, I fixed it for you.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

The comps are more than justified. To date, Jones has yet to lose a game in the NFL or throw an interception at the pro level... Oh, that's right...

I hope he's not spending time recording an NFLN spot where he says "Then Cam said, bleep that, go out there and sling it!"

We're used to a legend we can tell from day one to Escape from Foxborough, and with this kid, it's all yet to be written, for better or worse. He's got tools at the college level, which is great for the next time we're in the Sugar Bowl or somesuch. It'll be a while until we see what he's got as a pro. I'm super-optimistic but downplaying it... because really, we know he really wants to be here, we think he'll be a super hard worker, we think he's trying to do it all the Pats way and even the Brady way... And he really seems to have the brains and talent to make it happen. But all we really know about performance is how he looks against a bunch of kids, most of whom went undrafted, because that's what happens to most college players.

 

[Lansdowne]

Actually Brady had a number of offensive teammates drafted after the 1999 season in Rds 1,2 and 3. Thomas, Terrell, Askew and Walker

I’d also include the 1999 draft since Brady got most of his playing time beginning with the 1998 Michigan season. So add Jansen to the mix and you have the following who played with Brady during his two years as the lead QB and were drafted in the first three rounds:

OT Jon Jansen (2-37, 1999)
WR David Terrell (1-8, 2001)
OG Steve Hutchinson (1-17, 2001)
OT Jeff Backus (1-18, 2001)
HB Anthony Thomas (2-38, 2001)
OT Maurice Williams (2-43, 2001)
WR Marquise Walker (3-86, 2002)
TE Ben Joppru (2-41, 2003)
FB B.J. Askew (3-85, 2003)

 

[203Pat]

I think Pennington is a good comp for Jones. Makes smart decisions but doesn't have the greatest arm. I am more of a fan of this them taking a QB of the future than I am of the actual player but that being said it is time to circle the wagons around Mac Jones.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I’d also include the 1999 draft since Brady got most of his playing time beginning with the 1998 Michigan season. So add Jansen to the mix and you have the following who played with Brady during his two years as the lead QB and were drafted in the first three rounds:

OT Jon Jansen (2-37, 1999)
WR David Terrell (1-8, 2001)
OG Steve Hutchinson (1-17, 2001)
OT Jeff Backus (1-18, 2001)
HB Anthony Thomas (2-38, 2001)
OT Maurice Williams (2-43, 2001)
WR Marquise Walker (3-86, 2002)
TE Ben Joppru (2-41, 2003)
FB B.J. Askew (3-85, 2003)

Oh yea....They were loaded.

See I don't hold that against Tom. He had great talent around him and he delivered. He didn't hold the offense back and the talent surrounding him didn't make him better than he was. He fit right in with their level of play.

He belonged- Just like Mac Jones did.

 

[DarrylS]

I’d also include the 1999 draft since Brady got most of his playing time beginning with the 1998 Michigan season. So add Jansen to the mix and you have the following who played with Brady during his two years as the lead QB and were drafted in the first three rounds:

OT Jon Jansen (2-37, 1999)
WR David Terrell (1-8, 2001)
OG Steve Hutchinson (1-17, 2001)
OT Jeff Backus (1-18, 2001)
HB Anthony Thomas (2-38, 2001)
OT Maurice Williams (2-43, 2001)
WR Marquise Walker (3-86, 2002)
TE Ben Joppru (2-41, 2003)
FB B.J. Askew (3-85, 2003)

Seem to remember Ron Borges whining and bytching about how the Patriots took Richard Seymour at #6 instead of the "impact" player David Terrell who was drafted #8... how I long and pine for the days of Borges, always fun to get into an argument with him as he was wrong so many times, with that stupid "snortle" of his....

 

[Bill Lee]

Seem to remember Ron Borges whining and bytching about how the Patriots took Richard Seymour at #6 instead of the "impact" player David Terrell who was drafted #8... how I long and pine for the days of Borges, always fun to get into an argument with him as he was wrong so many times, with that stupid "snortle" of his....

Poor Borges, he kept picking the wrong people to plagiarize. I mean if you're going to steal, why not steal the good stuff?

 

[Captain Cliche]

Great analogy.
No one should diminish what Brady did with the Patriots because he had the luxury of playing in a good system, nor should anyone disparage what Belichick accomplished because he had the GOAT QB.

I believe GM's overthought the Mac Jones thing. He played the greatest game under the brightest spotlight.
Dude's got it between the ears. That's the most important part. Film/prep junkie that avoids partying and social media to work on his craft. What's not to like. They're looking for the next potential Patrick Mahomes, when they should be looking for the next Brady.

 

[TheRainMaker]

After his injury, it was amazing how Pennington with his weak arm and telegraphed every pass survived in the league for so long?

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Great analogy.
No one should diminish what Brady did with the Patriots because he had the luxury of playing in a good system, nor should anyone disparage what Belichick accomplished because he had the GOAT QB.

I believe GM's overthought the Mac Jones thing. He played the greatest game under the brightest spotlight.
Dude's got it between the ears. That's the most important part. Film/prep junkie that avoids partying and social media to work on his craft. What's not to like. They're looking for the next potential Patrick Mahomes, when they should be looking for the next Brady.

Bill Belichick? System head coach.

 

[VJCPatriot]

I’d also include the 1999 draft since Brady got most of his playing time beginning with the 1998 Michigan season. So add Jansen to the mix and you have the following who played with Brady during his two years as the lead QB and were drafted in the first three rounds:

OT Jon Jansen (2-37, 1999)
WR David Terrell (1-8, 2001)
OG Steve Hutchinson (1-17, 2001)
OT Jeff Backus (1-18, 2001)
HB Anthony Thomas (2-38, 2001)
OT Maurice Williams (2-43, 2001)
WR Marquise Walker (3-86, 2002)
TE Ben Joppru (2-41, 2003)
FB B.J. Askew (3-85, 2003)

The Ironic part of that list is that they were ALL drafted far AHEAD of Brady. ^_^

Let me put this one thing out there cos I need to get this off my chest.

It's STUPID to 'penalize' someone and discount their ability just because they played with other great players.

Does anyone say that Montana wasn't great because he had Jerry Rice and John Taylor, how about Peyton Manning for playing with Marvin Harrison and Edgerrin James, or how about Patrick Mahomes with Tyreek Hill, Sammy Watkins, and Kareem Hunt?

Nope, you don't hear that at all. But when people talk about Mac Jones? NOPE he SUCKS. Alabama did well because Mac played with Davonta Smith and Jaylen Waddle, none of that was Jones. He's not even a top 50 pick... say some of the negative Nancies out there who totally discount Mac Jones talent and future potential based on his supporting cast!

I'm SICK of it. What would worry me MORE is if you couldn't take advantage of that talent, not the fact that you threw for 4500 yards, 41 TDs vs only 4 INTs and recorded the highest completion percentage in the NCAA in 2020! Guess what, Give Mac Jones a Formula 1 car, and he'll take the checkered flag! He's not going to hold back a high octane offense, he's gonna DRIVE it!

Check out this Mac Jones film first. Then come back and tell me, does it look like he is putting the wide receivers in the best position to succeed, or is he just relying on the talent of his wideouts?