Jones = Chad Pennington 2002?

[VJCPatriot]

Yes. Manning was a miserable 14-for-31 for 137 yards and two interceptions. Pennington was 19-25.

Box Score - Indianapolis Colts vs. New York Jets, January 4, 2003 | The Football Database

View the Box Score for the NFL football game between the Indianapolis Colts and the New York Jets on January 4, 2003.

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LOL. Cherrypicking 1 game does not make Chad Pennington better than Peyton Manning. I don't know what y'all are smoking. Pennington was an average NFL pro QB. Nothing more than that. Maybe if he had stayed healthy he could have done more but he never did.

 

[VJCPatriot]

I'd be willing to bet that the league completion percentage was substantially lower when Pennington put up his numbers.

I'd like you to substantiate your bet with actual stats. Then I'll take a look at them. Yes one can speculate about different eras and 'eye test' things but that doesn't make the perception accurate.

 

[Brotherblues]

Not saying they're bad-bad, just the weakest aspect of his game. And it's possible that losing the dad bod would bring maybe a 10% increase accross the board on those numbers. That's kinda exciting especially if it also adds a bit of arm power.

Maltese puppy before her hair grew.

 

[TheRazorsEdge]

If his floor is prime Pennington we hit the jackpot. No need to overthink that.

 

[Deus Irae]

Quite a bit of cherry picking going on here.

You leave out all SIX of Drew Brees 70% completion seasons as if they didn't exist just to bolster your argument.

Chad Pennington never reached the 70% completion mark in his entire career, rotator cuff injury or not.

Drew Brees completion percentages Age 31-41. 71.2, 70, 72, 74.4, 74,3, 70.5. And those bolded percentages indicate he led the entire NFL in completion percentages 5 times.

Another factor you don't consider is pass attempts. The less times you pass, the easier it is to get a higher percentage. With larger volumes of passing you usually tend to get a lower pass percentage. Consider that Brees made over 500 pass attempts in 8 of his age 31-41 seasons. Meanwhile Chad Pennington never made over 500 pass attempts in a single season his entire career. Brees ended with a career pass completion rate of 67.7% in over 10500 pass attempts while Pennington ended up with 66.0% in just 2471 attempts. Both in terms of sheer volume and overall accuracy, Brees is far more impressive.

70.6	4388	34	6.6	11	2.1	210	75	8.5	8.9	12.1	292.5	109.6	82.0	20	135	7.96	8.31	3.7	2	4	16
2010*	31	NOR	QB	9	16	16	11-5-0	448	658	68.1	4620	33	5.0	22	3.3	238	80	7.0	6.5	10.3	288.8	90.9	70.8	25	185	6.49	6.01	3.7	4	5	14
2011*	32	NOR	QB	9	16	16	13-3-0	468	657	71.2	5476	46	7.0	14	2.1	279	79	8.3	8.8	11.7	342.3	110.6	82.3	24	158	7.81	8.23	3.5	3	4	20
2012*	33	NOR	QB	9	16	16	7-9-0	422	670	63.0	5177	43	6.4	19	2.8	266	80	7.7	7.7	12.3	323.6	96.3	68.7	26	190	7.17	7.17	3.7	1	2	15
2013*	34	NOR	QB	9	16	16	11-5-0	446	650	68.6	5162	39	6.0	12	1.8	246	76	7.9	8.3	11.6	322.6	104.7	69.1	37	244	7.16	7.51	5.4	2	2	17
2014*	35	NOR	QB	9	16	16	7-9-0	456	659	69.2	4952	33	5.0	17	2.6	259	69	7.5	7.4	10.9	309.5	97.0	74.8	29	186	6.93	6.77	4.2	2	2	16
2015	36	NOR	QB	9	15	15	7-8-0	428	627	68.3	4870	32	5.1	11	1.8	228	80	7.8	8.0	11.4	324.7	101.0	66.8	31	235	7.04	7.26	4.7	1	2	14
2016*	37	NOR	QB	9	16	16	7-9-0	471	673	70.0	5208	37	5.5	15	2.2	265	98	7.7	7.8	11.1	325.5	101.7	66.8	27	184	7.18	7.27	3.9	2	4	16
2017*	38	NOR	QB	9	16	16	11-5-0	386	536	72.0	4334	23	4.3	8	1.5	203	54	8.1	8.3	11.2	270.9	103.9	62.5	20	145	7.53	7.71	3.6	2	2	17
2018*	39	NOR	QB	9	15	15	13-2-0	364	489	74.4	3992	32	6.5	5	1.0	223	72	8.2	9.0	11.0	266.1	115.7	79.2	17	121	7.65	8.47	3.4	6	7	16
2019*	40	NOR	QB	9	11	11	8-3-0	281	378	74.3	2979	27	7.1	4	1.1	159	61	7.9	8.8	10.6	270.8	116.3	73.3	12	89	7.41	8.33	3.1	1	2	10
2020	41	NOR	QB	9	12	12	9-3-0	275	390	70.5	2942	24	6.2	6	1.5	149	52	7.5	8.1	10.7	245.2	106.4	74.6	13	89	7.08	7.60	3.2	1	3	9

What the hell are you talking about? There's literally zero cherry picking there. I used the time that Pennington was actually playing. You know, since we were talking about Pennington.


Brees has an enormous jump in his completion percentage (approximately 6% jump) when you compare his times.





Meanwhile, due to his injuries, Pennington played just 4 games after 2008. So the notion that I was cherry picking is absurd.

 

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

LOL. Cherrypicking 1 game does not make Chad Pennington better than Peyton Manning. I don't know what y'all are smoking. Pennington was an average NFL pro QB. Nothing more than that. Maybe if he had stayed healthy he could have done more but he never did.

Nobody said he was better than Manning or anything, other than that before his shoulder injury he looked like he would have a very good career.

 

[Triumph]

Well, I think the pats are a better organization and will put Mac in a better position to succeed.

Either your QB is good enough to make the clutch plays or not.

 

[Triumph]

Penny 2002 pulled a choke job in the post season.

21 comp - 47 attempts - 44% completion rate - 1 TD - 2 INT - 45 QBR

 

[rochrist]

I'd like you to substantiate your bet with actual stats. Then I'll take a look at them. Yes one can speculate about different eras and 'eye test' things but that doesn't make the perception accurate.

Between 2000 and 2006 the league completion percentage was 58-59%. In 2007 it took a jump to 61.2 and it's gone steadily upwards tp 65.2% this past season.

 

[Rob0729]

FWIW, Pennington made Laveraneus Coles look like an All Pro for a couple of years. Coles was just serviceable with Testeverde and broke out when Pennington took over. Coles had a few more pretty good years after Pennington started to break down, it nothing like 2002 or 2003.

 

[Rob0729]

Penny 2002 pulled a choke job in the post season.

21 comp - 47 attempts - 44% completion rate - 1 TD - 2 INT - 45 QBR

The comparison between Jones and Pennington is on playing ability not whether or not Jones will choke in the playoffs. The guy seems to be closer to Brady than Pennington in terms of confidence and mental toughness.

 

[Galeb]

Impressed at the reaction to this thread. Figured most of y'all would be bashing Pennington. Well done, Patfans.

 

[NYCPATS4LIFE]

Lol at people comparing this guy to chad Pennington. I see more matt ryan. We got the steal of the draft. I am already on point with that. This guy will have many pro bowls and wins. Book it!!!

 

[JetFan79]

I am enjoying this thread.

Not too often a Jet fan gets to read a discussion complimenting a Jet player.

Even if it's only in hopes their similar young player will succeed... I'll take it.

Yeah Chad was fun to watch. Smart, accurate, had guts, but would put up floaters that seemed to hang forever... yet usually connected.

I actually am rooting for Jones. It'd be pretty fun having 3 or 4 good young QBs in the division. Would make for some great division rivalries for the next decade+.

 

[PatsWSB47]

Quite a bit of cherry picking going on here.

You leave out all SIX of Drew Brees 70% completion seasons as if they didn't exist just to bolster your argument.

Chad Pennington never reached the 70% completion mark in his entire career, rotator cuff injury or not.

Drew Brees completion percentages Age 31-41. 71.2, 70, 72, 74.4, 74,3, 70.5. And those bolded percentages indicate he led the entire NFL in completion percentages 5 times.

Another factor you don't consider is pass attempts. The less times you pass, the easier it is to get a higher percentage. With larger volumes of passing you usually tend to get a lower pass percentage. Consider that Brees made over 500 pass attempts in 8 of his age 31-41 seasons. Meanwhile Chad Pennington never made over 500 pass attempts in a single season his entire career. Brees ended with a career pass completion rate of 67.7% in over 10500 pass attempts while Pennington ended up with 66.0% in just 2471 attempts. Both in terms of sheer volume and overall accuracy, Brees is far more impressive.

70.6	4388	34	6.6	11	2.1	210	75	8.5	8.9	12.1	292.5	109.6	82.0	20	135	7.96	8.31	3.7	2	4	16
2010*	31	NOR	QB	9	16	16	11-5-0	448	658	68.1	4620	33	5.0	22	3.3	238	80	7.0	6.5	10.3	288.8	90.9	70.8	25	185	6.49	6.01	3.7	4	5	14
2011*	32	NOR	QB	9	16	16	13-3-0	468	657	71.2	5476	46	7.0	14	2.1	279	79	8.3	8.8	11.7	342.3	110.6	82.3	24	158	7.81	8.23	3.5	3	4	20
2012*	33	NOR	QB	9	16	16	7-9-0	422	670	63.0	5177	43	6.4	19	2.8	266	80	7.7	7.7	12.3	323.6	96.3	68.7	26	190	7.17	7.17	3.7	1	2	15
2013*	34	NOR	QB	9	16	16	11-5-0	446	650	68.6	5162	39	6.0	12	1.8	246	76	7.9	8.3	11.6	322.6	104.7	69.1	37	244	7.16	7.51	5.4	2	2	17
2014*	35	NOR	QB	9	16	16	7-9-0	456	659	69.2	4952	33	5.0	17	2.6	259	69	7.5	7.4	10.9	309.5	97.0	74.8	29	186	6.93	6.77	4.2	2	2	16
2015	36	NOR	QB	9	15	15	7-8-0	428	627	68.3	4870	32	5.1	11	1.8	228	80	7.8	8.0	11.4	324.7	101.0	66.8	31	235	7.04	7.26	4.7	1	2	14
2016*	37	NOR	QB	9	16	16	7-9-0	471	673	70.0	5208	37	5.5	15	2.2	265	98	7.7	7.8	11.1	325.5	101.7	66.8	27	184	7.18	7.27	3.9	2	4	16
2017*	38	NOR	QB	9	16	16	11-5-0	386	536	72.0	4334	23	4.3	8	1.5	203	54	8.1	8.3	11.2	270.9	103.9	62.5	20	145	7.53	7.71	3.6	2	2	17
2018*	39	NOR	QB	9	15	15	13-2-0	364	489	74.4	3992	32	6.5	5	1.0	223	72	8.2	9.0	11.0	266.1	115.7	79.2	17	121	7.65	8.47	3.4	6	7	16
2019*	40	NOR	QB	9	11	11	8-3-0	281	378	74.3	2979	27	7.1	4	1.1	159	61	7.9	8.8	10.6	270.8	116.3	73.3	12	89	7.41	8.33	3.1	1	2	10
2020	41	NOR	QB	9	12	12	9-3-0	275	390	70.5	2942	24	6.2	6	1.5	149	52	7.5	8.1	10.7	245.2	106.4	74.6	13	89	7.08	7.60	3.2	1	3	9

You both are making valid points. But quarterbacks that play in domes have and edge all other things being equal.

 

[Deus Irae]

I am enjoying this thread.

Not too often a Jet fan gets to read a discussion complimenting a Jet player.

Even if it's only in hopes their similar young player will succeed... I'll take it.

Yeah Chad was fun to watch. Smart, accurate, had guts, but would put up floaters that seemed to hang forever... yet usually connected.

I actually am rooting for Jones. It'd be pretty fun having 3 or 4 good young QBs in the division. Would make for some great division rivalries for the next decade+.

After his wrist injury, and then even more after the shoulder injuries, Pennington was throwing up pure balloons, and those led to a high interception percentage. But, still, he still found a way to split the season series with the Patriots in 2006 and 2008. And watching his balloons coming down just outside the reach of defenders as often as they did was maddening, yet impressive, to me.

 

[PScottman]

To me it just means that his arm strength and athleticism are not yet completely unlocked. I mean seriously, this guy has the mental part down, and you can't teach that. And his body shows that the weakest parts of his game (arm and athleticism) can be vastly improved by a bit of stricter training. Like seriously I was more excited for his prospects once I saw his body had such potential for improvement.

Herein lies some of the crux of what to look for in Mac Jones that has nothing to do with him on the field - these are areas where improvement will show a dedication to the other critical part of being an NFL quarterback - desire, attitude, and commitment. Is he a guy where it's not just a game or a way to make (a &^%$# load of) money, but someone driven by winning, improving himself in the weight room, film room, and other non-grass covered venues crucial to long-term growth and maturation? Is he winning the "parking spot"? Is he the first in and last out? Does he accept the leadership role of responsibility (whether his or not) with a harsh media eager to prove he is instead "another" miss for the Patriots and why they should've kept Brady? Is he able to compartmentalize multiple stressors and still make good decisions - the definition of "clutch"?

It's not just about arm strength or even pocket awareness. The differences between a good NFL QB and a great one are legion, but some of the most critical ones that ensure consistent opportunities to win have nothing to do with physical attributes and will be extremely telling as to his future as he matures.

 

[Triumph]

The comparison between Jones and Pennington is on playing ability not whether or not Jones will choke in the playoffs. The guy seems to be closer to Brady than Pennington in terms of confidence and mental toughness.

Oh, Mac does?

This is hilarious. What hardships did Mac go through at Bama playing for the best HC in the NCAA and on a team loaded from top to bottom? If 1 star Bama player is lost for the season, others are waiting on the roster for their opportunity.

 

[DarrylS]

Shhh!! Don't tell sports talk radio, who are trying to sell the fallacy that Mac Jones had to fall for some reason not yet known, but nefarious to say the least. There has to be something here somewhere, somehow that caused him to fall this far.

A major scandal involving BB is brewing as the game has passed him by, he missed the Senior Bowl and his dog made the choice, or other such nonsense... didja know that BB trusts Nick Saban more than he trusts his own scouts??

 

[Rob0729]

Oh, Mac does?

This is hilarious. What hardships did Mac go through at Bama playing for the best HC in the NCAA and on a team loaded from top to bottom? If 1 star Bama player is lost for the season, others are waiting on the roster for their opportunity.

Prior to last season, the general consensus is that Mac Jones had little to no shot to become the 2020 Alabama starting QB because Bryce Young was the heir apparent of Tua. But Mac Jones beat him out.

And the last time I checked, Jones had an All World type of performance in the national championship game and didn't choke throwing for 464 yards and 5 TDs. Meanwhile, you know who did to a certain extent? Justin Fields.

And everyone says he has more of the temperament of Brady.

But I think it is funny that you are mocking me for saying that just because I said comparing Jones to Pennington doesn't mean Jones will choke like Pennington did in the playoffs. Yet you seem to think it is a forgone conclusion Jones will choke in big situations when all the evidence we have (although I admit limited) says he won't.