PatsFans.com - Mobile
PatsFans.com
Search

Jones = Chad Pennington 2002?

2021 Patriots Season:
Upcoming Opponent:
Next Up: vs Dolphins
Pick Results: MIA: 0% at NE: 0%

Sun
Sep 12th

Current Patriots Twitter Feed:

Bill Lee

What, me worry?
In terms of stats certainly. In therms of clutch under fire? He'll have to prove that on the field.
Of course, every rookie has to, but then again every pro player was a rookie once as well, most who make it past the early cut downs get better as they mature.

MJ of course had a great team at Alabama, but he still had to deal with the enormous mental pressure of performing at the national championship level.

Just playing QB for Alabama comes with a lot of pressure, about as much as CFB can generate, and he thrived.

He had a great performance at the national championship level, what more can you ask for?

I think it's not a bad place to start your NFL career from.
 
Last edited:

Schmo

2nd Team Getting Their First Start
But, but, but Mac Jones played with NFL caliber receivers in college and doesn't have a strong arm.

CP had moss and a notoriously weak arm and still managed to have success with bad teams. I think Pennington is the floor for Mac Jones... which is pretty high. Good comparison.
 

Patjew

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
I remember well that 2002 game vs the NYJ where it was the battle of the new, young QBs, Brady vs Pennington! They kept talking about how smart Pennington was. (Did Faulk have a KO return for a TD that game? I think he did). And the Jets won, sadly.

And from there, their careers kinda diverged.

I blame 2008 more on that ******* Favre. Loser.
 

mike_usagisan

On the Game Day Roster
I remember well that 2002 game vs the NYJ where it was the battle of the new, young QBs, Brady vs Pennington! They kept talking about how smart Pennington was. (Did Faulk have a KO return for a TD that game? I think he did). And the Jets won, sadly.

And from there, their careers kinda diverged.

I blame 2008 more on that ******* Favre. Loser.
Yeah, I think people forget how good those early 2000s Jets were. They weren’t the doormats they are now (or at least doormats for teams now with a functional quarterback).
 

VJCPatriot

Pro Bowl Player
Chad Pennington played against much weaker competition at Marshall though. He was in the MAC conference at Marshall. His advantage is that he started for 3 years so he had more experience coming out of college.

On the other hand Mac Jones played against the very best college competition in the SEC for Alabama. Those teams all have at least a few pro level players to challenge you and stronger systems and talent overall.

Yes Jones played with an 'all-star' team but that doesn't diminish his accomplishments in his senior year. He had to bide his time and prove he deserved to start, succeeding the likes of Jalen Hurts and Tagovailoa who are both NFL starting QBs now.

And although Jones doesn't have a canon arm like a Rodgers or Mahomes it looks very good to above average because of the consistently good deep balls he threw at Alabama. I did not see any wobbling ducks on film, those balls got where they needed to go and they were very catchable. Comparing Mac Jones arm coming out of college to 'noodle arm' Pennington seems unfair because his arm is simply stronger than that. And with proper coaching and training it can get stronger.

Mac Jones looks closer to Brady than Pennington in terms of playing style and arm strength.

Another pro comparison for Mac Jones comes from Peter Schrager. Hot take: Floor Kirk Cousins. Ceiling Drew Brees.

 

Hyped

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
I blame 2008 more on that ******* Favre. Loser.

3rd and 19 to Keller in overtime..... unbelievable lucky assed throw.....still bothers me. The '08 Patriots should have been in the playoffs that year....probably would have reached the AFC title game vs. the Steelers.....
 

Hyped

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
Anyway, I had similar thoughts that the floor for Mac Jones was Chad Pennington/Kirk Cousins...and I am completely fine with that. My main concern was that Jones would be compared to the GOAT....which is unfair...and just impossible for anyone to live up to those expectations. Which is why I wanted us to draft Justin Fields or one of the three 2nd tier guys...different style for Fields and lower expectations for the 2nd tier guys (plus premium talent in round 1).

However, after reading even more about Mac Jones over the past week....I think the floor is even higher. I know my screen name is "Hyped"...but I do try to avoid hyperbole... BUT the kid is fluent in Chinese, prepares manically, is meticulous, has a killer competitive instinct, and etc...

I am not so sure Cam starts week 1 right now...and I love Cam!!!
 

zydecochris

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
Chad Pennington played against much weaker competition at Marshall though. He was in the MAC conference at Marshall. His advantage is that he started for 3 years so he had more experience coming out of college.

On the other hand Mac Jones played against the very best college competition in the SEC for Alabama. Those teams all have at least a few pro level players to challenge you and stronger systems and talent overall.

Yes Jones played with an 'all-star' team but that doesn't diminish his accomplishments in his senior year. He had to bide his time and prove he deserved to start, succeeding the likes of Jalen Hurts and Tagovailoa who are both NFL starting QBs now.

And although Jones doesn't have a canon arm like a Rodgers or Mahomes it looks very good to above average because of the consistently good deep balls he threw at Alabama. I did not see any wobbling ducks on film, those balls got where they needed to go and they were very catchable. Comparing Mac Jones arm coming out of college to 'noodle arm' Pennington seems unfair because his arm is simply stronger than that. And with proper coaching and training it can get stronger.

Mac Jones looks closer to Brady than Pennington in terms of playing style and arm strength.

Another pro comparison for Mac Jones comes from Peter Schrager. Hot take: Floor Kirk Cousins. Ceiling Drew Brees.

There are certainly parallels between college Drew Brees and Mac Jones in attitude, intelligence, tennis background and footwork, and playing biggest in the biggest college games. That doesn't mean that Jones will reach the heights of Drew Brees, but it is a good ceiling.

I guess Kirk Cousins is a good floor candidate, but I have thought it a bit curious because their college career was so different. The same is true with Pennington, really a much different college career.

IMHO the most comparable college career is Joe Burrow with his late ascension and National Championship play, although Burrows had more escapability, had a bit more experience as a starter, was a bit older when drafted and was obviously considered the superior prospect by being drafted number 1. Burrows looked pretty good in Cincinnati before getting injured, but I think the jury is still out on him.
 
Last edited:

40yrpatsfan

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
I think a slightly better comp for Jones would be Ryan Tannehill, who's got a better arm and is little more athletic than Pennington. If Jones could become Tannehill, or Tannehill with better intangibles, I'd be happy.
 

PatsWSB47

Pro Bowl Player
Chad Pennington played against much weaker competition at Marshall though. He was in the MAC conference at Marshall. His advantage is that he started for 3 years so he had more experience coming out of college.

On the other hand Mac Jones played against the very best college competition in the SEC for Alabama. Those teams all have at least a few pro level players to challenge you and stronger systems and talent overall.

Yes Jones played with an 'all-star' team but that doesn't diminish his accomplishments in his senior year. He had to bide his time and prove he deserved to start, succeeding the likes of Jalen Hurts and Tagovailoa who are both NFL starting QBs now.

And although Jones doesn't have a canon arm like a Rodgers or Mahomes it looks very good to above average because of the consistently good deep balls he threw at Alabama. I did not see any wobbling ducks on film, those balls got where they needed to go and they were very catchable. Comparing Mac Jones arm coming out of college to 'noodle arm' Pennington seems unfair because his arm is simply stronger than that. And with proper coaching and training it can get stronger.

Mac Jones looks closer to Brady than Pennington in terms of playing style and arm strength.

Another pro comparison for Mac Jones comes from Peter Schrager. Hot take: Floor Kirk Cousins. Ceiling Drew Brees.

Pennington had a decent arm until his rotator cuff problems
 

VJCPatriot

Pro Bowl Player
Pennington might well have been the most accurate QB in NFL history.
Not sure if this is a joke but I'm pretty sure Drew Brees has him beat. Brees led the league in completion percentage in 5 separate years. 6 seasons with 70% or better completion percentage. 13 pro bowls. He was pretty good.

 

Brotherblues

On the Game Day Roster
Agree. Chad was a very good QB before his shoulder turned into junk.

Jones doesn't have a Josh Allen cannon but it's better than average. Should pick up a few MPHs with some mechanical improvements, weight and flexibility training.

Seriously I think that's a very overlooked factor with Jones. People see the bit of extra fat in his body and focus only on him not having an athlete's physique. To me it just means that his arm strength and athleticism are not yet completely unlocked. I mean seriously, this guy has the mental part down, and you can't teach that. And his body shows that the weakest parts of his game (arm and athleticism) can be vastly improved by a bit of stricter training. Like seriously I was more excited for his prospects once I saw his body had such potential for improvement.
 

Deus Irae

PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club
PatsFans.com Supporter
Not sure if this is a joke but I'm pretty sure Drew Brees has him beat. Brees led the league in completion percentage in 5 separate years. 6 seasons with 70% or better completion percentage. 13 pro bowls. He was pretty good.

Pennington completed 68.9% of his passes in his 3rd season. He screwed up his wrist the next season, which permanently impacted him, but still completed 63.6 percent that year and 65.4 percent the year after. In that 2004 season, he screwed up his shoulder, and lost a lot of arm strength. Despite that, he was healthy enough to get percentages of 64.5, 68.8, 67.4 and 68.9 from 2006 to 2009, when he once again injured his shoulder. That was basically the end of Pennington, as he tried a come back in 2010 but just couldn't get it done anymore.

Brees didn't complete more than that 68.9% until 2009, his 9th season in the league. But Pennington's accuracy was greater than Brees' throughout his career period.

1620328928906.png

And Pennington

1620328988523.png
 

zydecochris

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
Seriously I think that's a very overlooked factor with Jones. People see the bit of extra fat in his body and focus only on him not having an athlete's physique. To me it just means that his arm strength and athleticism are not yet completely unlocked. I mean seriously, this guy has the mental part down, and you can't teach that. And his body shows that the weakest parts of his game (arm and athleticism) can be vastly improved by a bit of stricter training. Like seriously I was more excited for his prospects once I saw his body had such potential for improvement.
At the risk of making excuses for him, when he came to AL he was sculpted but wayyyy too skinny, so I have read that they told him to drink protein shakes and eat everything he could to try to put on some pounds. Some people can do that and have it all turn into muscle, but that doesn't seem to be the case with him at least currently, despite the fact that he is obviously a very hard worker. I'm sure a year or two in the gym, and perhaps more importantly a year or two of physical maturation, will do wonders for him.
 

Brotherblues

On the Game Day Roster
Pennington completed 68.9% of his passes in his 3rd season. He screwed up his wrist the next season, which permanently impacted him, but still completed 63.6 percent that year and 65.4 percent the year after. In that 2004 season, he screwed up his shoulder, and lost a lot of arm strength. Despite that, he was healthy enough to get percentages of 64.5, 68.8, 67.4 and 68.9 from 2006 to 2009, when he once again injured his shoulder. That was basically the end of Pennington, as he tried a come back in 2010 but just couldn't get it done anymore.

Brees didn't complete more than that 68.9% until 2009, his 9th season in the league. But Pennington's accuracy was greater than Brees' throughout his career period.

View attachment 32737

And Pennington

View attachment 32738

While completion % and accuracy do have a correlation, it's just not strong enough to use as the sole factor.
 

Deus Irae

PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club
PatsFans.com Supporter
While completion % and accuracy do have a correlation, it's just not strong enough to use as the sole factor.
I posted about objective data in response to a poster who's response started off with

Not sure if this is a joke.

in order to demonstrate that I was not just making a joke. You're welcome to post about "It feels like....", if you want, but it's not really going to be relevant.
 

Top