Trade a 2nd For Jimmy Now; This is Not a Long Term Commitment

[Ring 6]

Sf was willing to pay that much to move up. It would have cost the patriots more to move up to that spot. Just because SF already moved up in no way prevents the Patriots from moving up between now and the draft. Your fixation with the timing is misguided. There are multiple draft picks, probably let's say 10 where the patriots could trade to and still get one of the top 5 qb's in the draft. Hell if the Patriots wanted they could probably offer SF a sweet enough package to move up to their pick. Until a team has sent their card in, that pick is still available. My guess is the Patriots have grades on all the qb's and would be willing to move up to a certain spot to get the qb they have rated highly, but unless they move up to 1, they don't control their destiny and won't know who will be available where until the draft has begun.

The post you were responding to was about waiting to trade for garoppolo because his price may come down.

Trading now rather than waiting is about not getting shut out which is very likely now.
There is no reason we would have had to give more than sf did.

 

[moosekill]

The post you were responding to was about waiting to trade for garoppolo because his price may come down.

Trading now rather than waiting is about not getting shut out which is very likely now.
There is no reason we would have had to give more than sf did.

Wrong again, they had the 12 pick, we have the 15th pick. Therefore we would have had to pay more. Jeez guy chill out.

 

[Ring 6]

Wrong again, they had the 12 pick, we have the 15th pick. Therefore we would have had to pay more. Jeez guy chill out.

No. It’s not more.
we would have to make up the difference between 12 and 15. That’s not more it’s equal.

 

[Grogan14]

The #1 rule in negotiating is making it clear to the other party you have no problem walking away.

and you know what...
To; Lynch and Shanahan
Re. JG
From Patriots; Please feel free to keep Jimmy G as your starting QB at 25 million this year and ask him to mentor your rookie QB so Jimmy can take a massive paycut next year and you can take the cap hit. I am sure JG and his agent will be delighted with this situation.

Jimmy G is not the second coming of Patrick Mahomes.

 

[Deus Irae]

Its pretty crazy to think that 2 out of the last 3 quarterbacks representing the NFC in the Super bowl are gone or on their way out.

If you think about it, it really does tell us about QB v. "Defense/Team" in the 2020s.

 

[moosekill]

No. It’s not more.
we would have to make up the difference between 12 and 15. That’s not more it’s equal.

We would have had to add more draft capital to bring us up to a similar package, because our own pick was worse then SF's pick. Maybe add an extra 2nd rounder or something, which would be adding more to the deal.

 

[mgteich]

If you think Jimmy is good enough for a 2nd round pick, but no more than a 1 year solution then you must really believe he’s capable of taking this team deep into the playoffs and possibly all the way. That’s fine, but that’s the only way those two beliefs make any sense together.

Yes, I believe a healthy Jimmy would be likely to have us competitive with Buffalo for the division, and competitive to go deep in the playoffs.

 

[mgteich]

and you know what...
To; Lynch and Shanahan
Re. JG
From Patriots; Please feel free to keep Jimmy G as your starting QB at 25 million this year and ask him to mentor your rookie QB so Jimmy can take a massive paycut next year and you can take the cap hit. I am sure JG and his agent will be delighted with this situation.

Jimmy G is not the second coming of Patrick Mahomes.

I believe that Jimmy is worth $24M as a bridge quarterback for 2021 for either SF or the patriots. In either case, of course, the team could decide at any time that the rookie is ready to start. There is NO commitment for 2022 in Jimmy's contract.

 

[manxman2601]

Yes, I believe a healthy Jimmy would be likely to have us competitive with Buffalo for the division, and competitive to go deep in the playoffs.

Injuries allowing, I agree. I disagree about whether he is, or should be, a short term commitment. If he’s that good, why wouldn’t you want to commit long-term? I would.

 

[Deus Irae]

Yes, I believe a healthy Jimmy would be likely to have us competitive with Buffalo for the division

You've got a 6 game gap you need to close.

 

[NE_Zealot]

The conventional wisdom is that the Patriots must trade up to the top 4 to get one of the elite QBs. If history has taught us anything is that BB doesn't follow conventional wisdom. He probably has his QB of the future picked out and it's probably going to be made in the 3rd round, Trask, Mond or Ramsey of Northwestern and the pick at #15 will be the BPA, likely a stud on defense. He's probably sitting there hoping that all the top picks are QB so he can draft 'his' player at 15........

Drafting a quarterback top 10 is a crapshoot, great if you hit, not so great if you don't and even worse if you mortgaged the future with multiple future first round picks to draft the next Ryan Leaf or Akili Smith....

BB doesn’t ever seem inclined to trade up but sometimes if you think a top prospect is the guy you have to go all-in. Otherwise we’re still talking about 2nd/3rd tier cast-off QB talents like Cam and and Jimmy Glass (about to become a cast-off). Taking a QB in the later rounds is ok but then you’re dealing with project players more often than not.

Franchise QBs are the lifeblood of your outfit. Eventually you have to roll the dice or you’re stuck in QB purgatory like the Pats are ATM. They added some nice pieces at the skills group and I don’t want to see a Corvette body with a Yugo engine at QB.

 

[mgteich]

Injuries allowing, I agree. I disagree about whether he is, or should be, a short term commitment. If he’s that good, why wouldn’t you want to commit long-term? I would.

Yes, I understand believing that Jimmy could be our QB of the future. In that case, Belichick will give SF what he has to, eventually.

I'm not sure that Jimmy is that player. I would have signed Trubisky. For me, all the one year bridge free agents are gone.

 

[masterbouncer]

BB doesn’t ever seem inclined to trade up but sometimes if you think a top prospect is the guy you have to go all-in. Otherwise we’re still talking about 2nd/3rd tier cast-off QB talents like Cam and and Jimmy Glass (about to become a cast-off). Taking a QB in the later rounds is ok but then you’re dealing with project players more often than not.

Franchise QBs are the lifeblood of your outfit. Eventually you have to roll the dice or you’re stuck in QB purgatory like the Pats are ATM. They added some nice pieces at the skills group and I don’t want to see a Corvette body with a Yugo engine at QB.

old Yugo engine you cannot lubricate anymore (Newton), so its really bad

 

[Ras-IR Dowling]

Wrong again, they had the 12 pick, we have the 15th pick. Therefore we would have had to pay more. Jeez guy chill out.

The difference in 12 and 15 is approx a 3rd. We throw in the extra 3rd and I still believe miami deals with SF since they’re out of conference. Our offer would’ve had to be better than SF for Miami to consider.

 

[Deus Irae]

BB doesn’t ever seem inclined to trade up but sometimes if you think a top prospect is the guy you have to go all-in. Otherwise we’re still talking about 2nd/3rd tier cast-off QB talents like Cam and and Jimmy Glass (about to become a cast-off). Taking a QB in the later rounds is ok but then you’re dealing with project players more often than not.

Franchise QBs are the lifeblood of your outfit. Eventually you have to roll the dice or you’re stuck in QB purgatory like the Pats are ATM. They added some nice pieces at the skills group and I don’t want to see a Corvette body with a Yugo engine at QB.

BB has made a first round trade up 4 times

 

[DropKickFlutie]

There are other excellent thread on QB, but I wanted to focus on a single issue.

WE HAVE A NEED FOR A QB FOR 2021!!!
How can it NOT be worth a 2nd to be able to have an excellent team in 2021.
Jimmy would be paid $26M, $25M AAV over 5 years ($25M bonus plus $1M salary) for a $6M cap hit . Surely the parties can work this out.
We would not be committed to Jimmy for 2022 or thereafter; we could trade him or cut him.

THIS NEED NOT AFFECT ANY DECISIONMAKING FOR THE DRAFT
If we don't believe that Jimmy is a LT answer, we would still do our best to trade up for a QB (or stay or trade down, as you would before the trade).
BTW, this way Lance becomes an even a better prospect, since he may not be ready to start early in 2021.

This makes a lot of sense. Jimmy knows the system. The 49ers are clearly going for a QB. They probably spent all those picks thinking they'll get something later for Jimmy. If the price is right do it.

 

[Patsfanin Philly]

When is the last time picking you qb of the future in the 3rd worked?
You are criticizing trading up to an area most of the good QBs came from because some failed in order to follow a plan that has almost never worked.

I'm not criticizing and I hope they do trade up to #4 to get their QB if that is the plan but think back to last year. Everybody (CW) was sure they were drafting a TE and.............................My point was simply you can't predict what the team will do in terms of position or player..........................other than trade up, trade down, trade out into next year.. With all those free agent signings, there isn't room for 10 draft picks. Some will get packaged as part of trades up or down and they likely will make 6 or 7 picks...

 

[DW Toys]

You act like these 4-5 young QBs are a commodity and BB would be willing to take any of them.
Guaranteed he has a different grade on these kids than you do, and using multiple first round picks just to draft any of them, is an act of desperation.

Cousin, I agree with your premise.
There are too many variables. For every "sure thing" like Lawrence and there are 4 or five Goffs or Wentzs, Drafted 1 or 2. Then there are the Watsons 12th, Mahomes 10th, Allen 7th, Jackson 32nd....so the sweet spot is around 10th.

Jimmy G.? O.K. ironically everyone says you need a mobile QB to win. Brady says hello. Stafford too. But Jimmie G. is not mobile. It's not his cost in trade. It is his financials.

Every rookie QB is a crap shoot. I am scared to death about Fields and the trend for Ohio State QBs in the NFL. There have been no success stories from that school for some reason. I think of Dwayne Haskins.

Zack Wilson seems like the real deal but he has had injuries in the past. Lance comes from N.Dakota State who brought us Wentz. Both might turn out o.k. in the end but this is not an SEC program.

This leads us to Mac Jones. I think he gets Drafted within the top 10. You still have to move to get up to him. How many picks will that cost?

Trask? Don't giggle:

Vertical passing:
1. Mac Jones: 4.6 passes per game of 20-plus yards, 57% completion rate, 26.4 yards per pass, 10-2 TD-INT, 99.9 raw QBR
2. Zach Wilson: 4.3 per game, 69% completion rate, 27.2 yards per pass, 7-0 TD-INT, 99.9 raw QBR
3. Justin Fields: 3.0 per game, 73% completion rate, 27.2 yards per pass, 5-1 TD-INT, 99.9 raw QBR on said passes
4. Kyle Trask: 4.4 per game, 57% completion rate, 19.9 yards per pass, 8-1 TD-INT, 99.5 raw QBR
5. Ian Book: 3.3 per game, 40% completion rate, 15.9 yards per pass, 1-0 TD-INT, 89.0 raw QBR
6. Trevor Lawrence: 4.9 per game, 38% completion rate, 16.1 yards per pass, 5-2 TD-INT, 85.2 raw QBR

Best situational QB (third downs, red zone):​

1. Fields: 71% third-down completion rate, 96.9 raw QBR on third down, 68% red zone completion rate, 98.8 raw QBR in red zone
2. Trask: 71% third-down completion rate, 95.5 raw QBR on third down, 70% red zone completion rate, 91.9 raw QBR in red zone
3. Lawrence: 61% third-down completion rate, 93.7 raw QBR on third down, 71% red zone completion rate, 89.6 raw QBR in red zone
4. Jones: 63% third-down completion rate, 81.1 raw QBR on third down, 79% red zone completion rate, 97.7 raw QBR in red zone
5. Wilson: 78% third-down completion rate, 81.6 raw QBR on third down, 68% red zone completion rate, 96.6 raw QBR in red zone
6. Book: 65% third-down completion rate, 91.3 raw QBR on third down, 45% red zone completion rate, 67.6 raw QBR in red zone


Best on the move:

1. Book: 54 rushing yards per game from scrambles (7.3 per carry), 27% of non-sack carries gaining 5-plus yards, 52% completion rate outside the pocket, 81.8 raw QBR outside the pocket
2. Fields: 47 rushing yards per game from scrambles (8.2 per carry), 23% of non-sack carries gaining 5-plus yards, 70% completion rate outside the pocket, 81.6 raw QBR outside the pocket
3. Wilson: 13.4 rushing yards per game from scrambles (9.3 per carry), 21% of non-sack carries gaining 5-plus yards, 62% completion rate outside the pocket, 94.5 raw QBR outside the pocket
4. Lawrence: 11.9 rushing yards per game from scrambles (10.4 per carry), 31% of non-sack carries gaining 5-plus yards, 47% completion rate outside the pocket, 47.4 raw QBR outside the pocket
5. Jones: 4.3 rushing yards per game from scrambles (3.4 per carry), 7% of non-sack carries gaining 5-plus yards, 73% completion rate outside the pocket, 95.2 raw QBR outside the pocket
6. Trask: 3.5 rushing yards per game from scrambles (2.3 per carry), 14% of non-sack carries gaining 5-plus yards, 59% completion rate outside the pocket, 53.4 raw QBR outside the pocket

Fewest Mistakes:

1. Jones: 0.8% interception rate, 2.9% sack rate, 83% catchable passes
2. Trask: 1.1% interception rate, 2.8% sack rate, 85% catchable passes
3. Lawrence: 0.9% interception rate, 4.6% sack rate, 83% catchable passes
4. Wilson: 1.3% interception rate, 3.4% sack rate, 85% catchable passes
5. Book: 0.4% interception rate, 5.7% sack rate, 73% catchable passes
6. Fields: 2.7% interception rate, 9.6% sack rate, 88% catchable passes

Tally:
1. Jones 17
2. Fields 16
3T. Trask 14
4T. Wilson 14
5. Lawrence 12
6. Book 11

In 2019, Trask replaced an injured Franks and started the final 10 games of the season. He completed 237 of 354 passes (66.9 percent) for 2,941 yards with 25 TDs and seven interceptions and ran for four TDs. Trask upped his game further in 2020 and was a Heisman Trophy finalist. He threw for a Gators-record 43 TD passes and only eight interceptions in completing 301 of 437 passes (68.9 percent) for 4,283 yards, and running for three TDs in 12 starts

Trask should be there at #46 and he is a definite at #15.Think Drew Bledsoe who was prett good for us. Trask is not going to wow in rushing yards but he did score 8 TDs at Florida. Is Trask as mobile as Jimmie G. is the big question of the day in comparison.

Threats?

DW Toys

 

[Biffins]

Jimmy the Glass has had 1 successful season out of 7. You don’t trade a 2nd rd pick and pay a guy with that kind of history. If we can get him on a low risk fair deal, go for it. A 2nd and that kind of money though? No thanks.

It speaks to the enigma of Jimmy G that we have equal parts opinion on a 2nd being too much or a steal.

 

[manxman2601]

In the Jimmy v draft QB debate, the question of whether BB wants to develop a QB at this stage of his tenure strikes me as an important one.