Belichick criticism mega-thread

[Ring 6]

That's a great way of putting what you've been trying to say for the last 40 pages. You finally have me convinced. Congrats, it took a while. Sorry I didn't see it before, it being right in front of me the whole time. The Patriots D/ST could have won the 2001 playoffs without the offense. Nice job.

Well that’s obviously an exaggeration but it is hard to find a SB winner where d/sts contributed more and offense contributed less in their playoff run that the 2001 patriots.

 

[skinnydog]

LOL! So stupid that you had to post my post twice. Hey Eli had an elite final drive in that Super Bowl. He must have been elite that season then. I am just using your logic.

For a time there Eli was elite every other year.

 

[Deus Irae]

For a time there Eli was elite every other year.

Was this in college, maybe?

 

[skinnydog]

Was this in college, maybe?

That might have been an overstatement

 

[catent]

10-0

He's referring to the Patriots.

 

[catent]

Even if we use your narrow definition Brady was most always elite. He's elite for that final drive in SB 36. He's elite for his 4th quarter and overtime comeback against the Raiders and his comebacks during the year. He was the best with his winner mentality. No one was better than that. Hes maintained that for 20+ years. You sell him short when you narrow the definition to stats.

The OP didn't define being elite as statistically reliant at any point - the word "stat" nor "statistic" appeared anywhere in his post.

You can be elite for a given drive, or a given game, but the OP clearly defines "elite" within the context of seasons and relative to the rest of the league.

He's right - Brady wasn't an elite NFL quarterback in 2001. He was good, and very, very good at critical junctures in postseason games - but he wasn't a consistently elite NFL quarterback until 2003-2006'ish, IMO.

 

[catent]

"The Patriots' D/ST could have won the 2001 playoffs without the offense. Nice job".

It's really remarkable how far folks are bending over to put words in @Rob0729's mouth and warp what he's actually saying.

And for what? To demonize the guy whose position is that Brady wasn't an elite quarterback in 2001? (and now acknowledges he is an elite quarterback, and even went so far as to say he could've won Super Bowls without Belichick over the last decade).

Good f*ckin' grief.

 

[PatsWSB47]

The OP didn't define being elite as statistically reliant at any point - the word "stat" nor "statistic" appeared anywhere in his post.

You can be elite for a given drive, or a given game, but the OP clearly defines "elite" within the context of seasons and relative to the rest of the league.

He's right - Brady wasn't an elite NFL quarterback in 2001. He was good, and very, very good at critical junctures in postseason games - but he wasn't a consistently elite NFL quarterback until 2003-2006'ish, IMO.

He's quoted stats in his anti elite pre 2004 Brady posts. Brady's DNA is elite. He had it in 2001 and before. He's a terminator. He doesn't stop. He doesn't ever stop. No one has matched him. Other quarterbacks had "better seasons" but they never matched his winner mentality. His example was unmatched. His competitiveness was unmatched. In his mind he wasn't going to lose no matter what....and when he didn't he went back to work so it wouldnt happen again. That was in him since Michigan. It didnt wait until 2004 to emerge. It was always him. That's why he was elite in 2001. He's been 2nd to none in that regard. That's why he was elite.

 

[venecol]

"The Patriots' D/ST could have won the 2001 playoffs without the offense. Nice job".

It's really remarkable how far folks are bending over to put words in @Rob0729's mouth and warp what he's actually saying.

And for what? To demonize the guy whose position is that Brady wasn't an elite quarterback in 2001? (and now acknowledges he is an elite quarterback, and even went so far as to say he could've won Super Bowls without Belichick over the last decade).

Good f*ckin' grief.

We won't be satisfied until he bends the knee and kisses the ring. Nothing else will do.

 

[venecol]

Well that’s obviously an exaggeration but it is hard to find a SB winner where d/sts contributed more and offense contributed less in their playoff run that the 2001 patriots.

Obviously.

It's easy to find: Denver during SB 50 playoffs. D/ST carried Manning to a ring.

 

[gobesmug]

Obviously.

It's easy to find: Denver during SB 50 playoffs. D/ST carried Manning to a ring.

Or Peyton's other ring in which he threw what 3 TDs to 7ints and had a victory where the only points scored were 4 FGs?

 

[Ring 6]

Obviously.

It's easy to find: Denver during SB 50 playoffs. D/ST carried Manning to a ring.

2015 Denver playoff scored 5 offensive tds 0 def/st tds
2001 patriots 3 offensive 3 def/st

 

[Ring 6]

Or Peyton's other ring in which he threw what 3 TDs to 7ints and had a victory where the only points scored were 4 FGs?

That offense scored more tds in the afccg against us than the 01pats offense scored the entire postseason. And that team
Scored 1 post season d/st td.
They also ran for over 600 yards in 4 post season games

 

[Kontradiction]

It makes perfect sense if you are not closed minded, Bledsoe struggled with the Patriots' offense. He sucked at it. Getting him out of the line up and replace him with just an average QB who is capable of running the Patriots offense and the offense improves.

Irony. Writ large. I have a very open mind and see things as they are as opposed to seeing things through blue and silver glasses. It makes no sense for two reasons: 1) one had to happen for the other to happen, and 2) you’re ignoring intangibles when it comes to Brady. His work ethic, his verbal leadership, being turnover adverse. All of those things were the difference between another losing season and a title.

And Brady was not clearly the biggest piece of the puzzle. He was a big piece of the puzzle, but not the biggest piece. He didn't shut down Marshall Faulk and the Greatest Show on Turf in the Super Bowl. He was injured in the game vs. the Steelers and had to come out of the game. The Pats defense played a big role in keeping that a close game. And the Pats had the best scoring defense in the second half of the 2001 season.

Remind me again, was their record under Bill before Mo Lewis? What was their record after? Yeah... he was the biggest piece to the puzzle. The quarterback on the team usually is. You’d think one would know this by now, having watched the GOAT for two decades and now watching the team stumble around in the dark turning over every stone looking for one. That team doesn’t sniff the playoffs or the Super Bowl without Brady coming in. That 2001 squad was very vocal about that. You probably were in the past as well. But now Brady is gone so it’s a smear campaign.

Why are you guys intent of rewriting history? Why is it so controversial to say Belichick was more important than Brady in Brady's first several years as a starter? Without Belichick, this team does not win a Super Bowl in 2001. This team could have won the Super Bowl with at least a small handful of QBs.

LMAO. The coach is never more important than the players. The guy you’re saying was more important had a good quote on that...

“Coaches don't win games, players do. Players don't lose games, coaches do.”

 

[venecol]

2015 Denver playoff scored 5 offensive tds 0 def/st tds
2001 patriots 3 offensive 3 def/st

This is wrong.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Good to know. He seems a bit snippy. Maybe he missed a meal.

Actually I bet he missed his meds.

 

[Rob0729]

That's a great way of putting what you've been trying to say for the last 40 pages. You finally have me convinced. Congrats, it took a while. Sorry I didn't see it before, it being right in front of me the whole time. The Patriots D/ST could have won the 2001 playoffs without the offense. Nice job.

When I first quickly looked at this post, I thought finally you were willing to put your arrogance and stubbornness aside and finally listen to an argument. I quickly realized you were just being closed minded and putting words in my mouth yet again to try to mock me because you have no response.

First why not take my post in context and not assign meaning that I never implied nor stated? Second, why not actually debate my post rather than post snarky comments? Personally, I don't think you have it in you to actually debate the issue.

 

[Rob0729]

"The Patriots' D/ST could have won the 2001 playoffs without the offense. Nice job".

It's really remarkable how far folks are bending over to put words in @Rob0729's mouth and warp what he's actually saying.

And for what? To demonize the guy whose position is that Brady wasn't an elite quarterback in 2001? (and now acknowledges he is an elite quarterback, and even went so far as to say he could've won Super Bowls without Belichick over the last decade).

Good f*ckin' grief.

The problem is too many Brady loving Belichick haters see every thing on this issue in black and white and in their mind the facts are Belichick has never and cannot win without Brady and Brady was elite and the difference on this team from the second he stepped on the flied to replace Bledsoe. Anyone who disagrees with this "reality" are Brady haters and trying to diminish Brady in their eyes.

Personally, I don't get why it is diminishing Brady to say that it took him several years to truly become elite and Belichick played a bigger role than him in the first couple of Super Bowls. It doesn't take away any of his rings. It doesn't take away him being the GOAT. I mean the guy barely played in college and came into the league out of shape and had work on his body and his mechanics and truly get totally comfortable with the speed of the game. That doesn't happen overnight.

I don't know if people just forget or refuse to remember, but back in the early 2000s a lot of sane and rational commentators and NFL fans were questioning if Brady was a product of the Belichick system and in 2002 a lot of people were legitimately questioning whether the Patriots traded the wrong QB because Bledsoe had a great year that year and Brady not as much. So that is how much at the time Brady was recognized as elite around the league.

I take nothing away from Brady, but I am not going to rewrite history to bolster his legacy and diminish Belichick's.

 

[Rob0729]

This is wrong.

How is it wrong?

 

[Rob0729]

He's quoted stats in his anti elite pre 2004 Brady posts. Brady's DNA is elite. He had it in 2001 and before. He's a terminator. He doesn't stop. He doesn't ever stop. No one has matched him. Other quarterbacks had "better seasons" but they never matched his winner mentality. His example was unmatched. His competitiveness was unmatched. In his mind he wasn't going to lose no matter what....and when he didn't he went back to work so it wouldnt happen again. That was in him since Michigan. It didnt wait until 2004 to emerge. It was always him. That's why he was elite in 2001. He's been 2nd to none in that regard. That's why he was elite.

This is all platitude BS. You are elite based on your play on the field. You sound like Eddie Andelman with his "Bledsoe has 'it'" crap.