DRAFT BGC 2021 Pre-Draft/Patriot-Type Prospect(s) thread

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Thoughts on Palmer? Is he a bit of an under-the-radar guy because of the putrid QB play at Tenn? BB seems to like to target offensive prospects with physical talent and untapped potential who drop in the draft because they were held back either by the scheme or their supporting cast and Palmer seems to fit the bill, no pun intended.

He's been in my tier 3 I believe in the DF for two years now. Big time vertical threat. Really job at initial stem off the line and second if need be. You can tell which guys are good are what after watching them for so long. He's really good at and comfortable with hand fighting without drawing a flag. Never extends himself/arms. + body control. Tough, tough player. Been going up against some of best comp in country in SEC - Guys like Stokes, Campbell and handles himself properly. So he's not afraid of the big stage. Hasn't run the most extensive route tree but that isn't solely on him. Like you mentioned, bad QB play or OL for example will cause you to shorten up your routes bc of lack of time. Or your QB can't work certain concepts, look off defenders or we. He does enough that leads me to believe that won't be a deal breaker considering he'll be brought in for specific roles and as depth.

I think he'll be a day 3 pick I think but wouldn't be shocked if someone went round two. Wouldn't mind him here at all. And you're right about Bill taking these prospects that haven't quite lived up to the hype in college. Guys like Lucien, Taylor, Boyce ... I don't mind taking them late but might be time to stop ignoring the obvious and go after more accomplished guys in that regard at that position? Who knows, I just hope we figure it out and surround the next QB with a great supporting cast.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

@BaconGrundleCandy I'd love your thoughts on a few positions. I'm very late to the game this year. I'll be back with more questions!

DT: Alim McNeill vs Jordan Davis vs Naquan Jones.

I have them in that order.
McNeill is the most NFL ready and has the most potential by far. He's borderline explosive, can anchor and has a non-stop motor. Good hands, decent set of moves. Can shoot or 2 gap. Needs to consistently play with good pad level but it's not a huge issue. Everything starts with his quicks though. First off the ball a lot at 320. His most impressive attribute might be the ability to move to the line-lateral movements. That's what a lot guys can't do like a Davis for example who is much more a North/South defender. Poor man's Jordan Phillips? Not sure Jones has the play strength to really hold up.

*edit* forgot most important thing. McNeill wears # 29!!! Love the look and aesthetics on him.

Tamorrion Terry vs Nico Collins vs Reggie Roberson
Roberson, Collins and Terry.
Terry never put it together and has had multiple beefs with the staff there. Basically the opposite of Collins. Probably the most potential but too much to handle with an early pick. Love Roberson is smaller but quite the deep tracker, elusive with big speed-can work him a little bit everywhere & plays very loose. He just moves nothing looks tough-gets up to speed quickly. Collins looks like prototype h/w/s prospect. Humble kid from Bama, with big offers (Bama, FL, LSU) but went to Michigan. You watch him off the line at SR Bowl practice? Moved like someone a lot smaller. His r/r is sloppy at times though. Too often gives what he's running away after his initial stem. Will change up stride length on deeper stuff but rounds out intermediate/short stuff sometimes. Good play strength but could be better. Decent run blocker but could improve there too.

QB: Sam Ehlinger vs Jamie Newman

I like both as projects. 5th-udfa types you can work with. Honestly not moved by either. I like Davis Mills for that type of spot, type of pick too. Check him out, he's our type.

@reamer good to hear from you. Ask away. Hope the family is well. I'll be awaiting your draft thoughts. Always look forward to them. Work has been killing me but it is what it is. Miss your post around here. It's a better place when you're active but you have your priorities straight.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

I've mentioned this several times now. Believe the A&M has some decent blocking on there. Pitts isn't nearly as bad as everyone would have you believe. It's not good lol but he's not terrible. Terrible is someone who isn't trying and awful. He gives good effort but lacks technique and experience. Also coaches are paid quite a bit to ... A)Coach (blocking in this case) & B)Put players in the best situations to succeed - don't have him pass block (duh)

Remember ...

 

[upstater1]

Obviously WR and QB are huge needs for the Patriots, but if either Micah Parsons or Patrick Surtain drop to #15, how can you pass these guys up? They seem like top 5 picks to me.

Why am I wrong?

 

[patsfanfromoversea]

Obviously WR and QB are huge needs for the Patriots, but if either Micah Parsons or Patrick Surtain drop to #15, how can you pass these guys up? They seem like top 5 picks to me.

Why am I wrong?

I like them as well. Both are Not flawless but who is that literally none prospect. Parsons has Charakter issues, idk how big they are or if it has influence on work ethic. Surtain might move to FS cause he doesn't look like a cb who has the speed to Hang on with top deep threats. He is a good tackler though so he might be better there, I like both really but others as well. Wouldn't mind parsons pick tbh

 

[DaBruinz]

Obviously WR and QB are huge needs for the Patriots, but if either Micah Parsons or Patrick Surtain drop to #15, how can you pass these guys up? They seem like top 5 picks to me.

Why am I wrong?

But are either of them actually TOP 15 worthy? Or are they more likely to be 2nd round picks?

 

[upstater1]

But are either of them actually TOP 15 worthy? Or are they more likely to be 2nd round picks?

Everything I read about them is that they are studs in this year's draft but are dropping because of team needs up top.

 

[Uptown]

 

[DaBruinz]

It's hilarious that @captain stone liked this since he's made it a point to go out of his way to denigrate just about every D2/D3 player that has ever played the game with his attacks on Pats players. I'm sure he'd start on this guy if the Pats drafted him to replace Andrews..

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Came at G, Fins coaching staff has been playing at C and apparently loving him so far. Not an easy task for someone coming up from D3. Wrestling background shows up on tape. He's all about leverage and hands. Wants to finish every play. Plays with some nasty but in control.

Side note - first clip DL trying a "superman rush". Any time you leave your feet you're risking a lot with no back-up plan/counter. Have to come correct with that rush.

Meinerz has put Onwuzrike, Pat Jones & others in the dirt that rarely get handled like that. Made himself a lot of money last week.

How do you not love this guy lol.

 

[long distance]

Slowly catching up..
Q1 - why is Pitts listed as TE? Who will dare putting him in-line in NFL? Every Pat WR is better blocking..

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

I've mentioned this several times now. Believe the A&M has some decent blocking on there. Pitts isn't nearly as bad as everyone would have you believe. It's not good lol but he's not terrible. Terrible is someone who isn't trying and awful. He gives good effort but lacks technique and experience. Also coaches are paid quite a bit to ... A)Coach (blocking in this case) & B)Put players in the best situations to succeed - don't have him pass block (duh)

Remember ...

Slowly catching up..
Q1 - why is Pitts listed as TE? Who will dare putting him in-line in NFL? Every Pat WR is better blocking..

See above. A&M game. He's more than capable of being good enough to play some snaps inline. TE or WR isn't important. What's important is you can use him anywhere including inline-detached. Give him stuff he can handle and coach him up a bit and there's no reason he can't be as good or better than Kelce. He's still young, inexperienced and will naturally add a few lbs. His effort and want to is there so there's no reason he can't improve.

 

[long distance]

See above. A&M game. He's more than capable of being good enough to play some snaps inline. TE or WR isn't important. What's important is you can use him anywhere including inline-detached. Give him stuff he can handle and coach him up a bit and there's no reason he can't be as good or better than Kelce. He's still young, inexperienced and will naturally add a few lbs. His effort and want to is there so there's no reason he can't improve.

Thanks

idk - im sure you watched this tape (and this is the one that matters ), pretty ugly & concerning, looks like a high school kid there
dont see much of the “effort and want“ either. And even if we just look him as WR, the lack of core strength and toughness (look at some potential contested balls that he doesn't really contest or is blown away, all contested crossing routes behind the line easily broken up) there is something to be desired. I understand that he has some rare traits & spectacular catches but as a high-mid 1st round pick i was really surprised to see this. I wouldn't even bother you with this but since he is dangerously mocked to Pats in 1st round i just wanted to here from you

 

[WaterfallJumper]

Thanks

idk - im sure you watched this tape (and this is the one that matters ), pretty ugly & concerning, looks like a high school kid there
dont see much of the “effort and want“ either. And even if we just look him as WR, the lack of core strength and toughness (look at some potential contested balls that he doesn't really contest or is blown away, all contested crossing routes behind the line easily broken up) there is something to be desired. I understand that he has some rare traits & spectacular catches but as a high-mid 1st round pick i was really surprised to see this. I wouldn't even bother you with this but since he is dangerously mocked to Pats in 1st round i just wanted to here from you

Hmm . . . I saw a player who will be coveted in the first round and may not make it to 15. Some very nice plays that few NFL TEs could make. He also got beat a few times, true, but it looked more like mental errors or good plays from the other team, not a concerning trend or a lack of ability/desire. Remember, these are just kids. They're still learning and growing.

I'm honestly surprised we're taking away such different things from this specific game. We're usually on the same page.

 

[long distance]

Hmm . . . I saw a player who will be coveted in the first round and may not make it to 15. Some very nice plays that few NFL TEs could make. He also got beat a few times, true, but it looked more like mental errors or good plays from the other team, not a concerning trend or a lack of ability/desire. Remember, these are just kids. They're still learning and growing.

I'm honestly surprised we're taking away such different things from this specific game. We're usually on the same page.

Nice to hear from you dear @reamer

Maybe its rust (on my part). But the lack of overall physicality is concerning to me. Just went and see college Kelce a bit since he was mentioned and ironically in clip 1 he is better blocker than route runner The comp doesn't really matter but it was funny. In any case - he was a stud.

btw - it will be a fun FA with plenty of our binikies from 2017 draft that left much to be desired esp. edge guys we discussed at length
Maybe thats why im a little more reserved this time

 

[long distance]

Nice short Parsons Bolton comp film/convo. Am i wrong to see some Mayo in Bolton?
Trade down and Bolton would be a nice start to the draft..

 

[Jim Beankie]

Thanks

idk - im sure you watched this tape (and this is the one that matters ), pretty ugly & concerning, looks like a high school kid there
dont see much of the “effort and want“ either. And even if we just look him as WR, the lack of core strength and toughness (look at some potential contested balls that he doesn't really contest or is blown away, all contested crossing routes behind the line easily broken up) there is something to be desired. I understand that he has some rare traits & spectacular catches but as a high-mid 1st round pick i was really surprised to see this. I wouldn't even bother you with this but since he is dangerously mocked to Pats in 1st round i just wanted to here from you

He did miss the previous week with a "lingering injury," getting medically cleared just in time for the Alabama game, and had a concussion and subsequent nose surgery a month and a half before (missing a few games).

 

[long distance]

He did miss the previous week with a "lingering injury," getting medically cleared just in time for the Alabama game, and had a concussion and subsequent nose surgery a month and a half before (missing a few games).

thanks for the important context!

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Cam Sample - almost 6'3 280, decent blend of quicks and power. Displayed both, shot down the line, power to move bodies north & south. Voted best DL'm on his team. Lined up inside at 3 & 1T. Easily one of the better DL'm overall last week.

David Moore and Quinn Meinerz- Ton of momentum coming in and only maintained or had their stock rise going against better comp. Moore got Shaq Mason comps but I also got Rodney Hudson vibes from the school prospect. Just a fire hydrant of power and explosiveness. Hudson quietly has been one of the better players in the league. I think him and Meinerz could find real success at C next level. Meinerz got Ryan Jenson comps. Moore looks more NFL ready all-around imo but Meinerz can definitely play. I think functional strength, overall play strength will have to improve but the lumberjack with his belly out can play ball.

D'Wayne Eskridge - these events are made for guys like him and he didn't disappoint. Very difficult to cover with so much space on the field. Speed was obvious but the head/shoulder fakes were on point as well, nice job controlling & utilizing all that speed.

DJ Daniel - had a very impressive showing most of the week. Voted best CB by the WR on his team. Showcased some nice quicks in short areas but his patience and footwork down in the red zone was pretty sweet. Wasn't afraid, didn't give up unnecessary ground in the most crucial area. Hips and footwork were on display. Really nice confidence. Most DB's don't have proper patience but he showed off a lot every practice.

Kellen Mond - both sides talked about his football IQ & skill set, esp Rhule. Skill set was always there but nice acknowledgment of his IQ.

Jack Anderson - came in as G played well at C.

Aaron Robinson - tough, scrappy CB didn't disappoint but showed some ability to mirror routes. Arguably the best corner there.

Dillon Radunz - looks like a perfect zone linemen bc of his athletic ability but showed off considerable power. Sometimes when it's in front of your face or better yet in front of your face vs good competition people talk and he was the talk down there. Few people said he was the best OL after Moore. Considering Radunz was already a name coming into the year this can only be a good thing.

Richie Grant - played about 2/1 FS to Slot in college. Coaches had him at CB last week and supposedly impressed.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Thanks

idk - im sure you watched this tape (and this is the one that matters ), pretty ugly & concerning, looks like a high school kid there
dont see much of the “effort and want“ either. And even if we just look him as WR, the lack of core strength and toughness (look at some potential contested balls that he doesn't really contest or is blown away, all contested crossing routes behind the line easily broken up) there is something to be desired. I understand that he has some rare traits & spectacular catches but as a high-mid 1st round pick i was really surprised to see this. I wouldn't even bother you with this but since he is dangerously mocked to Pats in 1st round i just wanted to here from you

Was going to mention the injury but been working too much. No his problems have nothing to do with effort or "want to". It's technique and functional strength. Trying to rely solely on his length or he'll reach with nothing behind it. If you watch him he's shown plenty of times he'll mix it up. Most of his bad plays in that area come when pass blocking. Sometimes things happen and he'll be faced with those situations but good coaching cam mitigate that. Plus time in a real conditioning program. I get the feeling Florida wasn't making blocking a priority (talked about this when I wrote him up) There's a lot of correctable stuff. He actually had a few good enough blocks in that clip you showed vs Bama in the run game. Nothing you'll show as teaching tape but he's trying and surviving.

Basically the kid doesn't know what hes doing but showing effort and some fight if you really watched him. Sure he looks caught off guard and overmatched at times but again he's far from his final form. Also I'd hate to be the TE coach that couldn't make Pitts work when it's clear he has all the tools to become a big-time player right away. This reminds me of QB taking snaps from under center and the Mike Leach quote. Paraphrasing here but he's basically saying if these coaches can't teach a kif to take snaps from under center than they're not real coaches and I couldn't agree more. If you have a kid 6'6/240 that displays effort you have more than enough to work with. I think back to the notes Jeremiah has from Bill and can't help but think he sees it the same way. In general terms, Pitts would be that rec threat, Asiasi the inline guy and hopefully Keene is that do-it-all type.