Debate Brady vs Belichick?

[crawhammer]

With Brady leading his new team into the postseason, his old team is floundering pathetically and will miss the postseason for only the second time in the past 18 seasons. The two seasons missing the postseason, 2008 and 2020, no Brady.

The main reason the Patriots will not make the postseason this year is the significant dropoff at the quarterback position. Like all of the greatest of all time, Brady makes everyone around him better, in fact much better, including Belichick.

Belichick without Brady:
8 Seasons
61-71 record
0 division titles
1 playoff win

Belichick with Brady:
18 seasons
219-63 record
17 division titles
12 Conference Championship appearances
9 Super Bowl appearances
6 Super Bowl titles

Belichick, often referred to as a genius, in reality is just another guy, an ordinary coach who looks great when coupled with a legendary talent. The numbers, the facts, bear it out. And it's not even close. More important to the Patriots dynasty? Brady by a wide margin.

 

[Triumph]

Brady

Brady was the one on the field. Lots of legend players in every sport try to coach and fail.

Brady would have the Pats in he post season right today even with this cast of misfits. The Pats could afford to be cheap and fail at stocking WR and TE talent because Brady could make do with what he had to work with.

 

[NJPatsfan26]

I would say they needed each other to have the great run they had.

 

[Pape]

the debate is over? lol. No. Its just getting started.

The problem is two fold. You are comparing apples and oranges, one guy is a player, the other a coach g/m. It is far far easier for Brady to prove his mettle by walking onto a team that has been primed for success with a surfeit of talent. Belichick has the much harder task of replacing the greatest quarter back the league has ever seen. Brady started the "argument" sitting in the pole position, while Belichicks starting position was at the back of the field.

One other thing I detest is the flouting of Belichicks record. Like Cleveland has anything to do with BB as a modern day head coach. He was in Cleveland during the 1990's. When he started there was no cap and no real free agency - ever heard of plan B? It was 1994 that both the salary cap and true free agency were adopted by the league. So from 1991 to 1993 BB was working under antiquated rules that severely limited roster building. After his one good season there, the team was sabotaged by Art Modell so he could move the team... Your oh so deep and exhaustive "analysis" omits any type of historical context, and also conveniently leaves out that those years in cleveland were his first go round in the NFL as a head coach.

I look at what he did in the first year of New England, 5-11. no good. But consider this - he was in the process of putting his pieces in play. As much as I love Bledsoe, he wasn't very good. He was not consistent and was prone to throwing interceptions at the worst time possible. But over that period, he built a team. Not just Brady and a bunch of guys. A team. A team that won. Think we beat the falcons if the defense didn't show up in the second half? Not a chance.

If you really feel the need to rip apart all the success we've had over the past 20 years, you need to let the process BB has installed here take hold and see what he builds. Otherwise you are just another "look at me and my hot take" *******...

Personally, it is my opinion that Belichick abd Brady are both responsible for the success of the Patriots. There are timeless coach/qb combinations in the league - Walsh/Montana. Noll/Bradshaw, Landry/Staubach, Lombardi/Starr and we will soon add Reid/Mahomes - Belichick/Brady stands out as the very best of them. The perfect storm of driven coach and driven player...

I think its real a sad sack **** show that "patriot fans" feel the need to tear apart what we had over the past 20 years.

 

[Patriot_fan989]

'What if' scenarios are a waste of time and this discussion is pointless.

 

[luuked]

Yawn.

They were multipliers on top of each other who had perfect synergy. We wouldn't have been as successful without BB and also not without Brady.

While we are having a down season the Bucs are stumbling towards an early playoff exit despite an offense that oozes talent.

The fact you didn't even consider adding that third option, but instead in your mind it has to be either one or the other is pretty telling.

 

[sb1]

Without HC Bill there’s a very good chance this team doesn’t win a single game.

Pats with or without Brady in 2020 had no shot at a championship. Bill will have a chance in the next 2 years to change the narrative on who made who. Looking forward to seeing GM Bill try and seeing our team back on top.

 

[RIpats88]

What if Brady goes one and done. Then does the argument shift to "well if Brady had bill instead of Arians" they needed each other. It was a symbiotic relationship

It's a poor argument anyway. Brady has one of the most talented rosters in the NFL while Bill has one of the worst

 

[Lagaffe_07]

Bill has one of the worst

And who is responsible for that?

 

[Patsfanin Philly]

What if Brady goes one and done. Then does the argument shift to "well if Brady had bill instead of Arians" they needed each other. It was a symbiotic relationship

It's a poor argument anyway. Brady has one of the most talented rosters in the NFL while Bill has one of the worst

True. Brady's road playoff record is 4-4 ( not neutral sites) and it looks like he would have to win 3 road games to get to the Super Bowl as NO has a one game lead with 2 left and N'awlins owns the tie breaker having won both games this year. Only way TB wins the division is if they win both and Saints lose both.....

 

[stcjones]

With Brady leading his new team into the postseason, his old team is floundering pathetically and will miss the postseason for only the second time in the past 18 seasons. The two seasons missing the postseason, 2008 and 2020, no Brady.

The main reason the Patriots will not make the postseason this year is the significant dropoff at the quarterback position. Like all of the greatest of all time, Brady makes everyone around him better, in fact much better, including Belichick.

Belichick without Brady:
8 Seasons
61-71 record
0 division titles
1 playoff win

Belichick with Brady:
18 seasons
219-63 record
17 division titles
12 Conference Championship appearances
9 Super Bowl appearances
6 Super Bowl titles

Belichick, often referred to as a genius, in reality is just another guy, an ordinary coach who looks great when coupled with a legendary talent. The numbers, the facts, bear it out. And it's not even close. More important to the Patriots dynasty? Brady by a wide margin.

I still think BB overall is a great coach....but I think Brady made him legendary. Prior to Tom coming into picture BB was known as great D mind....but not overly great HC....obviously we all know how bad he’s botched drafting. I would say Tom was the catalyst for success here in NE

 

[Pat the Pats Fan]

It’s a combination of both. The sum of the two were greater than individually. There are two coach / qb combinations that as individuals were considered some of the best of all time, but together didn’t do it when it mattered. Shula / Unitas and Shula / Marino.

 

[scout]

I would say they needed each other to have the great run they had.

Tampa will not win the Super Bowl this year. However, the odds would go up if BB was the coach.

 

[sb1]

I still think BB overall is a great coach....but I think Brady made him legendary. Prior to Tom coming into picture BB was known as great D mind....but not overly great HC....obviously we all know how bad he’s botched drafting. I would say Tom was the catalyst for success here in NE

If so he isn’t a great defensive coach anymore it seems. The old Bill the DC would have never let his run defense get embarrassed like yesterday. Or let SB LII happen.

 

[sb1]

Tampa will not win the Super Bowl this year. However, the odds would go up if BB was the coach.

Doubtful they’ll win but they might get there.

KC unfortunately is in a league of it’s own.

 

[RobertWeathers]

People have very short memories...

2020 Patriots (14 games): 20.6ppg, 6-8, 2.08 offensive TDs a game
2019 Patriots (last 9 games): 20.3ppg, 4-5, 1.9 offensive TDs a game

Why do we think the NEP would be better this year with Tom when he has less to work with than last year?

 

[RobertWeathers]

If so he isn’t a great defensive coach anymore it seems. The old Bill the DC would have never let his run defense get embarrassed like yesterday. Or let SB LII happen.

Apparently you missed the 2002 season.

 

[Steve102]

Lennon and McCartney argument. Good separately, great together.

 

[Boomer B]

Belichick was the perfect coach for Brady, especially during those formative years. But if the question is who’s more important, it’s Brady, and it’s for more reasons then we think.

Having the top player buy in to the program like Brady did allowed the others to fall in line. That is really, really important and has been talked about by a lot of ex-players. That just wouldn’t have happened with other top QBs like Rodgers or Favre or Manning. Brady swallowing his ego allowed Bill to rule the roost unquestioned for 20 years.

The game is played by the players. Brady had a much bigger impact as the best player on the team and in the league. The other thing is the competitiveness, being the best clutch athlete in sports history along with Jordan and Woods, the leadership...those are things that make his teammates believe they are never out of the game. That is unique to Brady.

We don’t win 6 SBs or go to 9 without both together, and Bill brought out the best in Tom, but Brady was the most important person over that 20 year run.

 

[Triumph]

Lennon and McCartney argument. Good separately, great together.

Lennon was great separately.

Some of his best was created post Beatles. Mcartney was good post Beatles, but not on Lennon's level. Just compare Lennon's Christmas song to McCartney's for example. No contest.