Debate Brady vs Belichick?

[Patriot Missile]

The Brady has done this crowd makes me smile. What has he really done with TB besides beat Green Bay? Got embarrassed by the Saints twice. He was brought in to beat the Saints. He chose his destination with the best wr core in the nfl combined. He’s been good but not special.

They were a special coach qb pairing. Ala Montana Walsh and many others. Its just BB and Brady were the best of the best. And btw, if BB got to pick to go to TB he would of made a game plan to slow down the Saints enough for Brady to score more points than the other team, that’s how it worked so well for both of them.

 

[Tompa12]

Both are the GOATs.

Would Brady have 6 rings without Bill? No.
Would BB have 6 rings without Tom? No.

 

[sb1]

Both are the GOATs.

Would Brady have 6 rings without Bill? No.
Would BB have 6 rings without Tom? No.

"Great players need coaches and great coaches need players" - Tom Brady

Yup.

 

[Tompa12]

Another Brady vs Belichick thread? This has been discussed ad nauseam in the Gronkaneer thread...

Belichick is struggling without an elite QB...what a news flash.

Tom would be struggling in Tampa without elite playmakers....another newsflash.

Brady was without Godwin a couple games and a hobbled Evans early in the season.

 

[notex]

Lennon was great separately.

Some of his best was created post Beatles. Mcartney was good post Beatles, but not on Lennon's level. Just compare Lennon's Christmas song to McCartney's for example. No contest.

Ready for this?

Beatles are so overrated its ridiculous. Yes I know I will get heat for this take but I honestly don't understand people's obsession with them. So many better bands/artists in the same time. Sorry, but not sorry.

 

[Lagaffe_07]

I think a better question may be who would you keep with the benefit of seeing how 90% of this season played out? Bill or Brady.

Say you are Robert Kraft and it is late February. You have a meeting with Bill and Brady and they tell you it was a good run but we just think it would be best if we no longer worked with each other and whomever you pick to stay means the other one goes. Knowing what you know now: Brady looks good with great supporting cast but a little shaky sometimes with a subpar coach, and Bill is still a hell of a coach but his GM abilities as of late have been questionable and has a huge project to rebuild a bad roster, who stays?

Bill but because he can coach longer than Tom will play. But if in 2-3 years we don’t have a winning season or being in the playoffs, I can see the Krafts moving on.

the thing is I don’t think Bill has a huge project to rebuild a bad roster. If he had we wouldn’t be here today. I think it’s unrealistic to think that we will be back in the fold next year. We are at least 2 years away of being in the playoff mix and I am not even talking SB. And that’s if all goes well. Next year could be worse than this year.

 

[crawhammer]

Another Brady vs Belichick thread? This has been discussed ad nauseam in the Gronkaneer thread...

Belichick is struggling without an elite QB...what a news flash.

Tom would be struggling in Tampa without elite playmakers....another newsflash.

Your theory that Tom would be struggling is completely unfounded. He's 43 for Christ's sake and he has had to get acclimated to an entirely new team, coaches and players. He's a borderline pro bowler. What he's doing is unprecedented and incredible.

Belichick looks like a total fool for not doing everything possible to have Brady finish out his career in NE. The Patriots are a total disaster right now and their future looks very bleak, not only because they have a rather untalented roster, and no plan whatsoever at quarterback, but two teams in their own division are skyrocketing past them. Not to mention several other teams in the conference will be leaving them in the dust for the next several seasons.

Look, for at least this season, had Brady remained their starter, they would be cruising toward another division title, even with the otherwise putrid roster.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Your theory that Tom would be struggling is completely unfounded. He's 43 for Christ's sake and he has had to get acclimated to an entirely new team, coaches and players. He's a borderline pro bowler. What he's doing is unprecedented and incredible.

Belichick looks like a total fool for not doing everything possible to have Brady finish out his career in NE. The Patriots are a total disaster right now and their future looks very bleak, not only because they have a rather untalented roster, and no plan whatsoever at quarterback, but two teams in their own division are skyrocketing past them. Not to mention several other teams in the conference will be leaving them in the dust for the next several seasons.

Look, for at least this season, had Brady remained their starter, they would be cruising toward another division title, even with the otherwise putrid roster.

Tom struggled w/o playmakers here with the greatest coach in league history.

We saw that most of last year.

Their defense this year is far worse than last year.

A div title in 2020 w/ Tom w/o JE11 is a dream.

Tom wanted out and you know it. Blaming BB 100% for Tom's departure is ********

 

[PatriotSpy]

I'm not going to knock Belichick he's a great coach but the guy pulling the trigger is Tom Brady. I want the guy pulling the trigger. And as great as BB is as a teacher, in the later half of the patriots dynasty run i couldn't help but watch our defense many times give up yards and points but still be in the game because of #12. I just think the nfl turned somewhere in 2008-2009 as it became more of a passing league. Now there's better qb's and receivers and it becomes more difficult to be an x's and o's coach with decent talent on d but hardly any game changers.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Your theory that Tom would be struggling is completely unfounded. He's 43 for Christ's sake and he has had to get acclimated to an entirely new team, coaches and players. He's a borderline pro bowler. What he's doing is unprecedented and incredible.

Belichick looks like a total fool for not doing everything possible to have Brady finish out his career in NE. The Patriots are a total disaster right now and their future looks very bleak, not only because they have a rather untalented roster, and no plan whatsoever at quarterback, but two teams in their own division are skyrocketing past them. Not to mention several other teams in the conference will be leaving them in the dust for the next several seasons.

Look, for at least this season, had Brady remained their starter, they would be cruising toward another division title, even with the otherwise putrid roster.

The fact that you think if Brady were the starter here in NE that we would be "cruising to another division title" tells me everything I need to know about you.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Brady was without Godwin a couple games and a hobbled Evans early in the season.

Yes, he struggled in the NYG game without Godwin and a gimpy Evans.

 

[PatriotSpy]

True. Brady's road playoff record is 4-4 ( not neutral sites) and it looks like he would have to win 3 road games to get to the Super Bowl as NO has a one game lead with 2 left and N'awlins owns the tie breaker having won both games this year. Only way TB wins the division is if they win both and Saints lose both.....

being on the road this year in the playoffs will be a lot different than previous playoff road games.

 

[sb1]

Look, for at least this season, had Brady remained their starter, they would be cruising toward another division title,

Doubtful. Bills are a much better football team everywhere.

Pats probably would get to the playoffs as a WC - not a guarantee but probably. Not further than that though.

 

[Boomer B]

I gotta laugh at those on here that downplay Brady leading the Bucs to the playoffs. He went to a team with talent, but who didn’t know how to win. Brady at 43 will have them in the playoffs for the first time in 13 years! Brady at 43 will finish with likely his 3rd highest TD total of his career and is near the top of the league. What he’s doing at 43 is groundbreaking and remarkable, yet some on here are harping on a regular season loss to the Saints and Rams.

 

[SVN]

not this again

 

[203Pat]

Tom struggled w/o playmakers here with the greatest coach in league history.

We saw that most of last year.

Their defense this year is far worse than last year.

A div title in 2020 w/ Tom w/o JE11 is a dream.

Tom wanted out and you know it. Blaming BB 100% for Tom's departure is ********

Even if Bill didn't deliberately run Tom out of town he did indirectly by surrounding him with no one who could catch passes.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Even if Bill didn't deliberately run Tom out of town he did indirectly by surrounding him with no one who could catch passes.

It all started with money.

 

[DaBruinz]

With Brady leading his new team into the postseason, his old team is floundering pathetically and will miss the postseason for only the second time in the past 18 seasons. The two seasons missing the postseason, 2008 and 2020, no Brady.

The main reason the Patriots will not make the postseason this year is the significant dropoff at the quarterback position. Like all of the greatest of all time, Brady makes everyone around him better, in fact much better, including Belichick.

Belichick without Brady:
8 Seasons
61-71 record
0 division titles
1 playoff win

Belichick with Brady:
18 seasons
219-63 record
17 division titles
12 Conference Championship appearances
9 Super Bowl appearances
6 Super Bowl titles

Belichick, often referred to as a genius, in reality is just another guy, an ordinary coach who looks great when coupled with a legendary talent. The numbers, the facts, bear it out. And it's not even close. More important to the Patriots dynasty? Brady by a wide margin.

Love how you can't be bothered to look at how Brady has done with the Bucs.. He's 1-4 against teams with winning records. Including abysmal performances against the Saints and Rams. And that is with Brady having huge talent at WR, TE, and RB.

Not sure how you came up with 8 seasons without Brady, but that's not correct. BB was in Cleveland for 5 years and this is the 1st season that Brady has been gone since Belichick took over. Brady was on the team starting in 2000. Attempting to count seasons where Brady was still in JR Highschool is kinda laughable. That's the sort of thing that others have attempted on this forum. They were wrong and so are you.

You claiming that BB is "just another guy" is completely laughable. And you ignore the negatives of Brady's tenure in TB. Such as the fact that he's not getting a Division Title this year.

People like yourself want to make these asinine comparisons when you have such an extremely limited set of information. You attempt to make it seem real by drawing in facts that have zero applicable value.

You can't accept that the reality is that without BB, Brady wouldn't have 6 rings, 9 SB appearances, and 12 Conference Championships appearances. Just like you can't accept that BB wouldn't have them without Brady. It's was a symbiotic relationship. It took BOTH pieces to make the synergy.

 

[NashuaPats]

We should be in the Super Bowl every year. We’re missing the playoffs this year???!!! Bill sucks! Don’t even talk to me about cap implications.

 

[Boomer B]

It all started with money.

How so? It was more about years. Brady wanted multi years, Bill wanted 1 year incentive laden deals. That went on since 2017. Bill made the choice not to offer a multi year contract 3 years in a row. Brady should have retired a Patriot.