Debate Brady vs Belichick?

[lancerman]

Belichick was the perfect coach for Brady, especially during those formative years. But if the question is who’s more important, it’s Brady, and it’s for more reasons then we think.

Having the top player buy in to the program like Brady did allowed the others to fall in line. That is really, really important and has been talked about by a lot of ex-players. That just wouldn’t have happened with other top QBs like Rodgers or Favre or Manning. Brady swallowing his ego allowed Bill to rule the roost unquestioned for 20 years.

The game is played by the players. Brady had a much bigger impact as the best player on the team and in the league. The other thing is the competitiveness, being the best clutch athlete in sports history along with Jordan and Woods, the leadership...those are things that make his teammates believe they are never out of the game. That is unique to Brady.

We don’t win 6 SBs or go to 9 without both together, and Bill brought out the best in Tom, but Brady was the most important person over that 20 year run.

Exactly. Brady allowed the culture to work because he bought into it and set the tempo. He also allowed himself to be chewed out and held accountable. That's never happening with a guy like Manning who was a megastar coming in and the entire media would have sided with over the gruff the coach. Brady also made a comeback in SB 36 when most first year players would have folded against one of the greatest teams ever, he completely bailed out our defense in 38, he had historic comebacks in 49 and 51. Without those we have 2 rings. Which while very nice and most fanbases would take it, a ring in 2004 and another in 2018 are a far cry from what we've experienced. That's essenitally what the Ravens did in 20 years.

The player will always be more important. They do it

 

[amfootball]

It's always the transcendent player especially at the most difficult and critical position in all of sports. This notion that Bill was more important has always been a false narrative. We knew that back in 2001 when Brady took a 5-13 to the championship.

 

[libra957]

Tom is the goat but this is Bill's team for better or worse. The GM and the coach set the tone, it starts with them. One down year doesn't change anything.Bill can coach for another 10 years and will have plenty of opportunities to win again.

 

[sb1]

It's always the transcendent player especially at the most difficult and critical position in all of sports. This notion that Bill was more important has always been a false narrative. We knew that back in 2001 when Brady took a 5-13 to the championship.

I think this season permanently silenced the "system QB" comments. Not that other fans really believed that, they just wanted to get a rise out of Pats fans.

 

[borg]

My go-to line when talking about Lebron is : "Has more heaven and earth ever had to be moved to get a "superstar" his titles?"

Sadly, a similar line is now being written about Tompa and his handpicked fleet of all-star weapons.

In the grand scheme, it's always more about "how many" than "how" and Brady and his legacy constructors know full well how the score is kept.

On my scorecard, a 2020 title would barely register.

A 2020 Tompa failure?
Now that's an offseason thread we can sink our teeth into
(Bill concurs)

 

[yukon cornelius]

And who is responsible for that?

well if you add in just the COVID opt outs this roster is significantly better

jury is out on BB for several years; a roster rebuild/retool is not a one year endeavor

we'll see on brady.....he's got a very solid roster, he's playing well.....but the one and done is going to prove what exactly?

 

[Clonamery]

It's crawhammertime!

 

[scout]

Doubtful they’ll win but they might get there.

KC unfortunately is in a league of it’s own.

It's always the transcendent player especially at the most difficult and critical position in all of sports. This notion that Bill was more important has always been a false narrative. We knew that back in 2001 when Brady took a 5-13 to the championship.

Seriously? The 2001 Patriots would not have won the Super Bowl without BB. Brady's stats at QB were low. It was shutting down the greatest show on earth that won that game.

 

[Guts]

It's a players game and Belichick himself will tell you. The coach can call the perfect gameplan, but the player ultimately has to execute it. They both deserve the credit though. Together they gave the sports world the greatest dynasty in pro football history

 

[crawhammer]

Okay, well my thread reappeared... It was unviewable when I logged on earlier.

 

[Ring 6]

It's a players game and Belichick himself will tell you. The coach can call the perfect gameplan, but the player ultimately has to execute it. They both deserve the credit though. Together they gave the sports world the greatest dynasty in pro football history

It’s both. And it’s ALL the players and ALL the coaches.

 

[RIpats88]

And who is responsible for that?

Bill the GM. Nowhere did I say it wasnt his fault. If you read other posts I've said it's his fault.

Doesn't mean that the hot takes of "OMG THE ARGUMENT IS OVER BRADY WAS MORE IMPORTANT" aren't dumb.

 

[everlong]

Bill and Tom are the best coach and QB. Bill the GM has been the problem. People wanted to put on blinders when he drafted players like Easley, Harry and others along with a complete ineptitude at drafting WRs minus our two SB MVPs.

I'm still hoping Tampa and can figure it out but watching Ariens and Bowles pigheadedly do the same thing week after week where Bill would adapt has only made me appreciate him more. Bill the coach has gotten everything out of this talent lacking team that Bill the GM has given him. If you swapped Ariens and Bill Tampa is probably 12-2 and the Pats are winless.

I'd love to see Tom get one more and then I'd like Bill to rebuild and get one more. 6 together and 1 each apart and then I'll sit patiently waiting for the haters to offer up their strawman arguments on why they aren't the true GOATs.

 

[Kontradiction]

Depends on what Bill gets done this offseason and what the team begins to look like in 2021. But, right now, it certainly looks like the “Patriot Way” and the “culture” walked out the door and went to Tampa Bay. Bill, on the other hand, looks like what he always was without Brady - a sub-.500 career head coach with the worse winning percentage than Jeff Fisher. But, like I said, there is a tremendous opportunity in front of him this offseason to right the ship. Just depends on what he does with that opportunity.

 

[Uptown]

TB...Tom Belichick.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Another Brady vs Belichick thread? This has been discussed ad nauseam in the Gronkaneer thread...

Belichick is struggling without an elite QB...what a news flash.

Tom would be struggling in Tampa without elite playmakers....another newsflash.

 

[lancerman]

I think it was the fans

 

[203Pat]

I don't think you can ever make a declaration one way or the other. Brady is now 43 and while still a great QB not quite what he was in his prime and Bill is pushing 70 and has a full rebuild on his hands that he may not coach long enough to fully turn around. I am on record with saying I think the slight edge goes to Brady for credit for the run we had. Players play the game but I do think it is safe to say that neither one of them ends up with six rings without the other one.

 

[Kontradiction]

I don't think you can ever make a declaration one way or the other. Brady is now 43 and while still a great QB not quite what he was in his prime and Bill is pushing 70 and has a full rebuild on his hands that he may not coach long enough to fully turn around. I am on record with saying I think the slight edge goes to Brady for credit for the run we had. Players play the game but I do think it is safe to say that neither one of them ends up with six rings without the other one.

Brady certainly wouldn’t have won six with Bruce Arians. That’s for sure. The question, at least for me, would be how many he could have won with an Andy Reid or a Jon Gruden. Or even in Baltimore with Newsome as the GM.

 

[203Pat]

Brady certainly wouldn’t have won six with Bruce Arians. That’s for sure. The question, at least for me, would be how many he could have won with an Andy Reid or a Jon Gruden. Or even in Baltimore with Newsome as the GM.

I think a better question may be who would you keep with the benefit of seeing how 90% of this season played out? Bill or Brady.

Say you are Robert Kraft and it is late February. You have a meeting with Bill and Brady and they tell you it was a good run but we just think it would be best if we no longer worked with each other and whomever you pick to stay means the other one goes. Knowing what you know now: Brady looks good with great supporting cast but a little shaky sometimes with a subpar coach, and Bill is still a hell of a coach but his GM abilities as of late have been questionable and has a huge project to rebuild a bad roster, who stays?