Where’s Josh McDaniels fall within all of this?

[scott99]

I love Belichick, but all our offensive woes are the result of poor drafting in recent years.

I am glad Tom left, because we just don’t have any offensive skilled position with any talent anymore other than when Brady was here.

Our WR, RB, & TE talent wise are the worse in the NFL as a group. The WR & TE each are by far the worse in the NFL and our running backs are 30th at best.

The groceries have been terrible in recent years, and Belichick owns it.

We are #2 in rushing yards per game in the NFL, nothing wrong with our RBs, and I include Cam with the RB group.

But I agree with you 1,000,000% on the drafting, just horrendous.

 

[IcyPatriot]

NEM would love this thread ... he really would ...break out the Ouija board ... just for this thread and see what NEM would like to say

 

[captain stone]

That's not ever happening while Bill's here.

 

[cupofjoe1962]

We are #2 in rushing yards per game in the NFL, nothing wrong with our RBs, and I include Cam with the RB group.

But I agree with you 1,000,000% on the drafting, just horrendous.

Do you agree we have the worst set of WR & TE in the NFL.

If you don’t agree, who is worse?

 

[amfootball]

McDaniels is treading towards Adam Gase/Mike McCoy territory. Aside from that one year with Matt Cassel (which scored him the Broncos job), he has not done anything outside of Tom Brady as his QB.

I get it he's really excited about his new hairdo, but he needs to spend more time finding a way get the ball to his 1st round pick.

I agree. He really should have taken the Colts job. He will not get another HC offer anytime in the near future.
I always thought Charlie Weiss was a much, much better OC than McDaniels but both guys have 3 rings so ...

 

[PatsBoy12]

I agree. He really should have taken the Colts job. He will not get another HC offer anytime in the near future.
I always thought Charlie Weiss was a much, much better OC than McDaniels but both guys have 3 rings so ...

I don't know if I agree about the offers part, am. With the guys I see being hired each year, I'm sure there will still be offers on the table for him just based on his total resumè. GM's in the league are desperate and McDaniels is still regarded as one of the best at his position.

With that said, maybe he doesn't get as many offers as before. I, for one, would probably be looking elsewhere just as fervently, even though I'd still at least bring him in for an interview. He's definitely being exposed at this time, in my view. I know the talent is severely lacking... yes, I get that. But he's still got to find a way to get at least one TD on the board in a game. Prove that you really are deserving of the respect. But I suspect this is just more of the same... a lot of these coordinators leave NE and prove that they were, in large part, just part of the machine.

 

[Vindicate]

Is he maximizing the strengths of personnel around him? Utilizing all personnel correctly? Can we make the defense change? Take advantage of matchups? Cover up a few deficiencies. Few other things but these give you a good idea.

A lot more personnel imo. We've seen Josh do great things with less than ideal parts. Mostly Jules, Gronk and good pieces mixed in but never a dominant outside threat for the most part. If Josh were ignoring a glaring strength maybe you could say something but he's not lazy imo.

Brady masked a lot. So much it's a whole other topic. But the biggest thing imo was he actually had Brady. He never had to consistently out scheme anyone bc he had the most consistent, driven QB ever to dissect defenses so Josh was always at a + 1 advantage bc of 12.

Shanahan, Daboll & Roman have been pretty great. Mcvay, I really the Rams WR & OL coach. Shanahan, Daboll & Roman all have one thing in common maybe over Mcvay but what do I know? They self-scout as good as anyone. Get to know their opponents weaknesses and exploit the hell out of it. Maybe EB from KC too. All creative, efficient and dangerous running the same thing from different formations - using formations and creating a numbers advantage.
Kliff King in Arizona is another really good one. Brady and Rhule have been good in Carolina for what they're working with. Arthur Smith in Tennessee is another guy always worth checking out. Hes been great. With the run and PA pass game. Carmichael in NO.

There's plenty of others and I don't want to get into college guys but I still have faith in Josh. He really has little to work with. It's been injuries on the OL. Erratic QB play. No big time setter on offense. I have a few issues with him but it's tough to get excited about him when the talent, play and execution hasn't been there.

My hot take is I hope Bill wants to stick around bc this could be a real rebuild. You know he wants the win record but only has so much time left. Let's say a team that gets Lawrence ... The Falcons, Giants, anyone but the jets. Offers him 12-15 per year? Would he consider?

First off, thanks for the breakdown as always. And your point about Brady masking a lot, albeit obvious, is a good point to make when looking at the nuance of it. Brady made the offense look amazing, but like you said, he was a tool that made it so Daniels didn't have to consistently out-scheme his opponents.

So, this isn't necessarily a binary "he's either good or bad" situation, he's just a better-than-average OC who has shown he can manage pretty well when he has something to work with, but he's not as good as Brady made him look - and he has little to work with. Which isn't a slight to Daniels, but more a nod to just how good Brady was. Which, we all know, but his absence really forces you to examine football on a realistic level haha. Wild. Goddamn Brady was/is so good.

 

[sean10mm]

McDaniels has his ups and downs like any play caller, but he's largely to the good (at least if you don't make him head coach....)

At some point it has to be about the players. Without talent a gameplan is just a list of things that don't happen.

 

[Doctor DDS]

Majority of OC's are "carried" by great QBs. When Big Ben or Rogers have been out in recent years those offenses completely fell apart. QB is the most important position in sports and w/o a good one a team struggles. Just the way it it. There is no question that McD deserved some of the credit when the Pats were near the top of the league in scoring year after year and deserves some of the blame now that they are struggling but his impact is on the margins in my view. JM or a new OC will continue to struggle if they get this level of QB play regardless of scheme.

 

[captain stone]

NEM would love this thread ... he really would ...break out the Ouija board ... just for this thread and see what NEM would like to say

I miss NEM...His rants were classic...

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Majority of OC's are "carried" by great QBs. When Big Ben or Rogers have been out in recent years those offenses completely fell apart. QB is the most important position in sports and w/o a good one a team struggles. Just the way it it. There is no question that McD deserved some of the credit when the Pats were near the top of the league in scoring year after year and deserves some of the blame now that they are struggling but his impact is on the margins in my view. JM or a new OC will continue to struggle if they get this level of QB play regardless of scheme.

Problem is McDaniels has been horribly terrible 3 different times now without Tom Brady. Denver (3-10 then fired), St Louis (dead last 32/32 ranked offense in points, also non-existent TE receptions, sound familiar ??), and now this year.

.

 

[TomPatriot]

Problem is McDaniels has been horribly terrible 3 different times now without Tom Brady. Denver (3-10 then fired), St Louis (dead last 32/32 ranked offense in points, also non-existent TE receptions, sound familiar ??), and now this year.

.

Neither Denver nor St. Louis had any players. That’s not his fault. He wasn’t buying the groceries.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Neither Denver nor St. Louis had any players. That’s not his fault. He wasn’t buying the groceries.

Sounds like the same excuses. He was the f'ing HC in Denver where he spent a 1st rounder for Tebow and also traded for Laurence Maroney. And dead last in offense in St Louis. I guess it's never his fault. On the flip side, it's looking more like Brady made him look good.

 

[captain stone]

I thinks it's also time to examine the two gentlemen Bill & Skippy have allowed to coach their TEs & WRs...They gotta be the two Least Experienced -
if not Least Qualified - pair of TE/WR coaches in the entire damn league...

 

[BradyFTW!]

I don't really blame the coaches, Belichick and McDaniels included, for this ****show on offense.

I entirely blame the FO, aka Belichick the GM. I don't think anyone could scheme their way to success with this personnel.

On defense I don't really blame anyone, since COVID opt-outs kinda messed that whole depth chart up.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

I thinks it's also time to examine the two gentlemen Bill & Skippy have allowed to coach their TEs & WRs...They gotta be the two Least Experienced - if not Least Qualified - pair of TE/WR coaches in the entire damn league...

I looked it up on who is the TE coach, whoa big surprise, another young random guy from John Carroll, where McDaniels is from. McDaniels' fingerprints are all over this offense and that includes the player development (and lack thereof) across all the WR and TE players.

.

 

[Tottie]

I looked it up on who is the TE coach, whoa big surprise, another young random guy from John Carroll, where McDaniels is from. McDaniels' fingerprints are all over this offense and that includes the player development (and lack thereof) across all the WR and TE players.

.

Damn man! I mean I agree about Josh but you REALLY hate the guy.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Damn man! I mean I agree about Josh but you REALLY hate the guy.

I love Belichick but he's almost 70 years old and I'm mortified if McDaniels is next in line. McDaniels has been nothing without Tom Brady. Think Barry Switzer or Norv Turner after Jimmy Johnson. Actually way worse than that.

 

[Tottie]

I love Belichick but he's almost 70 years old and I'm mortified if McDaniels is next in line. McDaniels has been nothing without Tom Brady. Think Barry Switzer or Norv Turner after Jimmy Johnson. Actually way worse than that.

He's not next in line, he's a hack. Even with Kraft being a dbag lately surely he sees that.

 

[TheRainMaker]

I love Belichick but he's almost 70 years old and I'm mortified if McDaniels is next in line. McDaniels has been nothing without Tom Brady. Think Barry Switzer or Norv Turner after Jimmy Johnson. Actually way worse than that.

We laugh at what he did to the Colts, but it was a terrible business decision for him. No other Owner will trust him and he's getting exposed badly without Brady.