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Where’s Josh McDaniels fall within all of this?

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Brick27

In the Starting Line-Up
He had the tall task of functioning an offense post-TB12, and eyes rightfully should have been on him going into this year. So far he hasn’t been able to make chicken salad out of chicken sh*t. Is he really putting this team in a position to make the best use of players and “put them in the best position to succeed”?—or is there something else there?

So far he looks like an OC who’s only as good as his players on a given day. Wouldn’t think much if you didn’t know who he was blessed to coach under at QB previously.
 
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DropKickFlutie

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
We need a new OC. McDaniels is terrible without Brady. He was terrible in St Louis, worst offense in the league. He crashed and burned in Denver. Basically Brady covered for him. McD looks terrible without Brady. Zero skill players developed since O'Brien developed Edelman and Gronk. James White developed himself. Scar developed linemen. That's it. This looks so much like McDaniels' 2011 league worst St Louis Rams offense which was also last in TE receptions. Pats in 2019 and 2020 so far also dead last in total TE receptions.

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Brick27

In the Starting Line-Up
Maybe we just need some actual NFL talent on offense?... BB has drafted like sh*t and the trades /FA acquisitions have just about all failed. I dont think thats all on Josh...
Of course it’s not all on him, but isn’t that where having an actual quality OC might add value and draw up something that exceeds the sum of parts?
 

PATSYLICIOUS

Pro Bowl Player
Hard to blame him with the talent the last 2 seasons. I thought 2008 without Brady was one of his best seasons, so it’s not like he can’t succeed without him. But Gotta give him something to work with.
 

lancerman

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
Of course it’s not all on him, but isn’t that where having an actual quality OC might add value and draw up something that exceeds the sum of parts?
You can only do so much. Let’s be real, I don’t think any of our TE’s and any receiver but Edelman is a quality NFL target. If they were released today they’d be out of the league for good imo.

Josh has come up with good runs utilizing Cam.
 

DropKickFlutie

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
Does Josh make talent decisions? If not I’m not blaming him

He does. Belichick ultimately has responsibility but he's at the mercy of the evals he gets from his staff. No coincidence our OLinemen picks usually hit with Scar here and we've whiffed on so many WRs and TEs under this OC. Incidentally we also whiffed on every WR and TE pick from 05-08 with the same OC , supplemented with trades.

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Satchboogie3

In the Starting Line-Up
Of course it’s not all on him, but isn’t that where having an actual quality OC might add value and draw up something that exceeds the sum of parts?
Sure, but to me it wasn't the play calling... Cam couldn't the broad side of a barn today and his INTs sunk the team. On top of that the execution was awful and the OL got manhandled. What is Josh supposed to do? I'm no fan of his, but our problems go well beyond him.
 

Satchboogie3

In the Starting Line-Up
Of course it’s not all on him, but isn’t that where having an actual quality OC might add value and draw up something that exceeds the sum of parts?
Sure, but to me it wasn't the play calling... Cam couldn't the broad side of a barn today and his INTs sunk the team. On top of that the execution was awful and the OL got manhandled. What is Josh supposed to do? I'm no fan of his, but our problems go well beyond him.
 

DropKickFlutie

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
Talent development falls on the offensive coordinator as well in part. And we've developed no WRs or TEs for 8 years
 

Boomer B

In the Starting Line-Up
Ultimately the players who are on this roster fall on Belichick. I don’t think the coaches on either D or O have been great this year but it’s tough to blame Josh when he has the NFL’s worst offensive skill players and a QB who can’t hit a 5yd throw.
 

masterbouncer

On the Game Day Roster
NFL Picks Grand Champ!
McD has a good portion of the offensive play, you can't tell all the WR/TE on the other 31 teams are HoF, some of our WR/TEs don't even see a target while other OC with maybe even more pedestrian players make their players look like they are HoF, so yes its also on McD play calling and offensive plan.

However you can't blame him for Cam having poor mechanics and not seeing the field (as soon as there is pressure on him, he stops the progression down field, while other QB like Wilson, Mahomes etc. still avoid pressure but keep focused on whats happening on the field and see their WR/TE, Cam just runs like a headless chicken around to throw stupid INT or getting sacked Jete-like)

The thing for OC is, to design the plays for the players you have and play to their strengths, not making them do what they are not capable to do because you stick to your plays you have had with a complete different set of skill players few years ago...its called adjustments.
 

farn

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
The fans demands for perfection are unrealistic. Doubly so this year, as NE rebuilds.

Over McD’s tenure, the 33-6 score has often favoured the Patriots. Good players & good coaching have lead to NE dismantling many teams the way they themselves were beaten Sunday.
 

Username

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
I'm no X's and O's guy but if the offense is too complex for most skill players to pick up, how about simplifying it? Because surely some production from a simplified offense is better than no production from the much vaunted McDaniels offense?
 

Ladypatsfan

2nd Team Getting Their First Start
Yesterday's loss has exposed the major flaws that exist on this team. It is so easy to blame one guy for everything. But its not just one guy.
The overall talent on this team is flawed. How can they fix it? They need a talent upgrade on both sides of the ball.
 

luuked

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter

I said it somewhere else already but two games in a row where one half of the field is just ignored sticks out a lot.

Either they are giving him half field reads to simplify things -- something they also did for JG when he started -- but then you gotta wonder why they are never flipping the side. Alternatively -- more likely -- there is something physical going on with Cam. He started last week's game against the Broncos with 11 out of 12 completed passes and since then has totally fallen apart for the next six consecutive quarters.

Personally at this point I also think his mistakes are haunting him mentally to the point where he becomes indecisive and more likely to go for the big play the same way a gambler chases after lost money. Given that BB didn't even flinch when asked if Cam would start next week I guess he looked a lot better in those 2 practices they had this week.

Anyway to connect this back to McDaniels.. my personal take is that they need to just double down on what they have been doing well which is running the ball. Stop trying to balance things for a while and just go into the game with the goal to run the ball. Add in a handful of play action shots, bootlegs, screens and maybe the occasional drop back to get the offense and their QB into a rhythm.

This should also help optimizing the little practice time they have each week. I get that some people are tired of hearing about it but they essentially had 4-5 actual practices in the entire month of October. That is the equivalent of one week of camp and close to what a normal week looked like in pre COVID times. For a team that doesn't rely on raw talent but game planning, situational football and execution this hits much harder.

But we are here now and nothing about this will change, so either they need to adjust their approach and abandon those virtual sessions on Wednesdays and add another proper practice day or simplify their gameplans to a point where 2 days on the field during the week are enough.

Whatever they have been doing in October -- when the facilities were actually open -- has not worked on any level at all.
 
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