Lifelong Panthers fan AMA (ask me anything) Cam Edition

[Ring 6]

Thank you. You are correct about the year - 2019.

I'd argue they are dramatically different on the offensive line and certainly at blocking back - Danny Vitale is the real thing and an excellent replacement for James Develin. I also feel that the WR position will be better without the chaos of 2019, and a camp with Sanu, the 2nd-year receivers, and Marquise Lee. QB looks a bit different, too.

The edefense looks solid to me at all three levels and I like how they brought in players to address the FA defections.

At the end of the season they were only missing Andrews on the OL.
Some pieces in some pieces out but aside from
QB it doesn’t seem like a dramatically differing group.
Remember the argument I was responding to was with the great team the patriots have, Newton at 70-80% makes them an afcc contender without any doubt.
They were not close to that, so that argument amounts to 70-80% of newton replacing Brady elevates a team that couldn’t win a home playoff game to at least in the AFCCG.
I don’t think anyone believes if Andrews and vitale were on the field last January we were a lock.

everything changes from year to year but the chain was essentially Brady held back a great team that 70% of newton would gave made much better.

edit: vitale just opted out

 

[Ring 6]

The Yikes comment comes because there is no way in hell anyone would question a former MVP, three times pro bowler, former ROY, heisman trophy winner, number one pick’s “intellect” and “work ethic” if he were white. That’s the hard truth. If that makes you uncomfortable, you have some soul searching to do.

I can’t imagine anyone questioning Carson Wentz’s work ethic or intellect in year ten. Don’t be obtuse.

People question many players work ethic and intellect, white and black. People here question Bill belichick intellect. A lot question josh McDaniels. Gronks intellect, commitment, work ethic was questioned. Tom Brady’s work ethic was questioned when he skip a damn OTA.
Stop trying to make things that are not about race, about race.

 

[Conflicted Panthers fan]

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Oh damn, you’re right I should have added an asterisk for that time Steve Smith ripped into him for taking loses too hard.

 

[PatsWSB47]

The Yikes comment comes because there is no way in hell anyone would question a former MVP, three times pro bowler, former ROY, heisman trophy winner, number one pick’s “intellect” and “work ethic” if he were white. That’s the hard truth. If that makes you uncomfortable, you have some soul searching to do.

I can’t imagine anyone questioning Carson Wentz’s work ethic or intellect in year ten. Don’t be obtuse.

I'm confused with questions of his work ethic because I've never heard any reports. I can only guess that hes drawing conclusions based on what he thinks is evidence. I dont know if this applies to Cam Newton but I've noticed that players with special talents rely on them too much for their own good. Jeff George with his arm, Michael Vic with his legs etc. When that special talent isn't working then they havent worked on plan "B" enough to remain effective. I've often argued that Brady's greatness comes from his ability to overcome his lack of athleticism with "plans "B, C, D, and E. Effecting those plans took a lot of work to perfect. If he had Cams legs or Farves arm he might not have ever worked on alternative plans. Anyway, certainly race plays a factor with some people but to say the only reason to question something has to be about race is wrong I think

 

[JackBauer187]

Win/loss and point scored are the real gauges.


Because if you watch him play you can clearly see that throwing from the pocket is not his strength. I mean it’s silly to even try to argue that.


I didn’t cherry pick anything. I used Newton’s entire career and then to increase the number of comparables, and eliminate and bias of starting as a young player figuring it out, I used his mvp year forward.
I look at how a player plays and what they accomplish. Yes, when your only argument is he must have had bad coaching and bad teammates you are making excuses, especially when I am comparing his production to ALL of his peers.
I get that you like newton and are trying to shine a good light on him, but pretending his weakness is his strength just doesn’t really allow me to take you seriously.

I could make a very strong, positive, optimistic argument for newton but it would be by pretending his weaknesses add his strengths

So it’s just points scored and W/L now. When do the goalposts stop moving. Why were his stats so much lower. And every one of these comparisons takes away any contributions in the running game.

Name one, just one thing that shows he hasn’t succeeded from the pocket. What year do you want to do. We can go through where each TD pass was thrown from. Let’s go to the tape. Unless you have a credible stat that shows his numbers specifically from the pocket, you haven’t shown a thing. Let’s just go to NFL GamePass and watch any game he’s ever played. We can get the exact truth instead of “because you said so”. Let me know when you want to get started. Talk is cheap.

 

[TheRazorsEdge]

Hey conflicted thanks for taking the time.

How do you feel Cam handles media/fan pressure. Boston/New England is notorious for being a hard place to play due to overly critical talking heads and fans. Is he someone who openly exchanges with talking heads and becomes noticably rattled or is he more "let my play do the talking " type.

Also what do you feel is his most valuable attribute as a qb/leader

 

[Ring 6]

So it’s just points scored and W/L now. When do the goalposts stop moving. Why were his stats so much lower. And every one of these comparisons takes away any contributions in the running game.

You are the one moving the goalposts. You are the one sayings “it’s just this” or “it’s just that”. I’ve never said that but it appears to be your response to every point that conflicts with your feelings.

Name one, just one thing that shows he hasn’t succeeded from the pocket.

The way he has played from the pocket.

What year do you want to do. We can go through where each TD pass was thrown from. Let’s go to the tape. Unless you have a credible stat that shows his numbers specifically from the pocket, you haven’t shown a thing. Let’s just go to NFL GamePass and watch any game he’s ever played. We can get the exact truth instead of “because you said so”. Let me know when you want to get started. Talk is cheap.

Wait you said statistics are for 2nd graders.

I mean anyone who has watched Newton play even a little understands that his biggest strengths are keeping the defense honest with designed runs and moving to avoid the rush, buy time, allow receivers to get open on broken plays, etc. He probably has created plays with his legs more than any an in the Nfl. Its disingenuous to disagree with that. When you have those strengths and put up a career of mediocre passing production compared to your peers it’s hard to avoid that you struggle from the pocket.

I tell you what I see and you say “you need stats I don’t trust you”
I show you stats and you say “stats prove nothing”

Let’s start by agreeing on the basics.

-newton during his career has been the best running qb in the Nfl

-Newton’s career, compared to his peers passing production and numbers are mediocre.

-A mobile qb creates opportunity in the passing game and a strong pocket passer who can also escape the rush and extend plays and give his receivers more time to get open will have even better passing production than an equal pocket passer who is immobile. (See Mahomes)

Once we agree on the basics it won’t be a long discussion.


By the way “talk is cheap” is a pretty comical comment for a message board. Lol.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

I'm confused with questions of his work ethic because I've never heard any reports. I can only guess that hes drawing conclusions based on what he thinks is evidence. I dont know if this applies to Cam Newton but I've noticed that players with special talents rely on them too much for their own good. Jeff George with his arm, Michael Vic with his legs etc. When that special talent isn't working then they havent worked on plan "B" enough to remain effective. I've often argued that Brady's greatness comes from his ability to overcome his lack of athleticism with "plans "B, C, D, and E. Effecting those plans took a lot of work to perfect. If he had Cams legs or Farves arm he might not have ever worked on alternative plans. Anyway, certainly race plays a factor with some people but to say the only reason to question something has to be about race is wrong I think

Newhouse our OT was in Carolina a bit and confirmed Newton was first in the morning and last out. Bizarre for anyone to question his work ethic except for... Bias

 

[JackBauer187]

You are the one moving the goalposts. You are the one sayings “it’s just this” or “it’s just that”. I’ve never said that but it appears to be your response to every point that conflicts with your feelings.



The way he has played from the pocket.




Wait you said statistics are for 2nd graders.

I mean anyone who has watched Newton play even a little understands that his biggest strengths are keeping the defense honest with designed runs and moving to avoid the rush, buy time, allow receivers to get open on broken plays, etc. He probably has created plays with his legs more than any an in the Nfl. Its disingenuous to disagree with that. When you have those strengths and put up a career of mediocre passing production compared to your peers it’s hard to avoid that you struggle from the pocket.

I tell you what I see and you say “you need stats I don’t trust you”
I show you stats and you say “stats prove nothing”

Let’s start by agreeing on the basics.

-newton during his career has been the best running qb in the Nfl

-Newton’s career, compared to his peers passing production and numbers are mediocre.

-A mobile qb creates opportunity in the passing game and a strong pocket passer who can also escape the rush and extend plays and give his receivers more time to get open will have even better passing production than an equal pocket passer who is immobile. (See Mahomes)

Once we agree on the basics it won’t be a long discussion.


By the way “talk is cheap” is a pretty comical comment for a message board. Lol.

So ONCE AGAIN, your answer is “because I said so” or should because I watched him play mean something else.

Let’s just go to the tape. What year? First game ever? Forget all your “stats”. We can watch every play for ourselves. What’s so hard? We have an option that we can both see for ourselves. It’s not hard to breakdown film if you’ve done it before. I’ll walk you through it if you’re uncomfortable with anything but a spreadsheet.

 

[JackBauer187]

Newhouse our OT was in Carolina a bit and confirmed Newton was first in the morning and last out. Bizarre for anyone to question his work ethic except for... Bias

if Steve Smith and Kelvin Benjamin are the only guys you ever pissed off, you’re doing something right.

Smith is certifiable and has attacked teammates, multiple times, from behind. Which is exactly why he was let go.

And remember when Cam was the reason for Benjamin’s struggles. Certainly not looking like an OT and dropping everything. Where is he now?

 

[RASTAN99]

Oh damn, you’re right I should have added an asterisk for that time Steve Smith ripped into him for taking loses too hard.

You did say "ever".

Smitty's comments went directly to work ethic (or lack thereof in this case).

Gross and Khalil had the same conversation with him the previous year, didn't stick.

On the positive side, work ethic can be coached and there's zero doubt that Ron Rivera did Cam no favors with the manner in which he coached him basically the entire time. (Smitty shouldn't have had to have that conversation with Cam, coaches dropped the ball)

If there's one thing be can be certain of it's BB will demand more of Cam by multiples vs. any other coach he has ever had --- if Cam responds in the proper fashion the resulting production could be astounding!

 

[DropKickFlutie]

You did say "ever".

Smitty's comments went directly to work ethic (or lack thereof in this case).

Gross and Khalil had the same conversation with him the previous year, didn't stick.

On the positive side, work ethic can be coached and there's zero doubt that Ron Rivera did Cam no favors with the manner in which he coached him basically the entire time. (Smitty shouldn't have had to have that conversation with Cam, coaches dropped the ball)

If there's one thing be can be certain of it's BB will demand more of Cam by multiples vs. any other coach he has ever had --- if Cam responds in the proper fashion the resulting production could be astounding!

The same way I fully expect Brady to be a bit sloppier in Tampa. Away from elite coaching. More about "having fun again"

.

 

[Ring 6]

So ONCE AGAIN, your answer is “because I said so” or should because I watched him play mean something else.

So what other answer do you expect for someone’s opinion other than it’s what I analyzed and/or it’s what the numbers say?

Let’s just go to the tape. What year? First game ever? Forget all your “stats”.

So now you have flip flopped back to stats don’t matter?

We can watch every play for ourselves. What’s so hard? We have an option that we can both see for ourselves. It’s not hard to breakdown film if you’ve done it before. I’ll walk you through it if you’re uncomfortable with anything but a spreadsheet.

Feel free to do whatever you want I don’t need to. I am 100% confident in my opinion. I’ve seen a lot of his play.
If you feel you need to review his career of film to have an opinion go right ahead.
I already know what you will see. And I already know you wouldn’t be honest about it too.

 

[Joker]

Steve Smith is and always has been an angry "short man complex" azzole...people confuse bigmouth, sarcastic denigrations of others with intelligence...with him it's because of complete IDIOCY.

 

[JackBauer187]

So what other answer do you expect for someone’s opinion other than it’s what I analyzed and/or it’s what the numbers say?


So now you have flip flopped back to stats don’t matter?




Feel free to do whatever you want I don’t need to. I am 100% confident in my opinion. I’ve seen a lot of his play.
If you feel you need to review his career of film to have an opinion go right ahead.
I already know what you will see. And I already know you wouldn’t be honest about it too.

Yet you won’t/can’t pick any games, or stats that specify pocket success. Nothing but 100% belief in an opinion you haven’t shown anything to prove and refuse to go to the actual source. Hide as far behind the “cherry-picked” stats and stay away from actually watching the games and finding the truth.

Guess we’re done if we can’t use actual play to prove a point.

 

[RASTAN99]

The same way I fully expect Brady to be a bit sloppier in Tampa. Away from elite coaching. More about "having fun again"

.

I'll take the other side of that trade.

 

[RASTAN99]

I'm confused with questions of his work ethic because I've never heard any reports. /QUOTE]

An example.

Direct quotes from Cam:

"I'm not the best playcaller," Newton said.

"I be in the huddle. I'm already tired. I ain't got time to be saying this that, the third, the third, the third, ready, ready, break. You only get so much time."

The topic came up as Newton talked about the return of Panthers Pro Bowl tight end Greg Olsen, who re-fractured his right foot in the season opener, for Sunday's Week 6 game at the Washington Redskins. Not only is Olsen a security blanket for Newton as a receiver, but he apparently helps the 2015 NFL MVP call plays.

"I call him the dictator in the huddle," Newton said. "I really have problems calling plays, even in Year 8. He just helps me."

Cam Newton not alone in saying 'calling a play shouldn't be a paragraph'

----------------------------

Olsen and Newton played in the same system for the same coaches.

As such, the impact of poor coaching is normalized as both were subject to the same conditions.

So, if Olsen was able to master the playbook and Cam didn't do so --- one of the other two variables in play (work ethic or intellect) is responsible for the different outcomes.

Personally I'm reasonably confident Cam has the requisite intellect to master the playbook.

 

[Conflicted Panthers fan]

You did say "ever".

Smitty's comments went directly to work ethic (or lack thereof in this case).

Gross and Khalil had the same conversation with him the previous year, didn't stick.

On the positive side, work ethic can be coached and there's zero doubt that Ron Rivera did Cam no favors with the manner in which he coached him basically the entire time. (Smitty shouldn't have had to have that conversation with Cam, coaches dropped the ball)

If there's one thing be can be certain of it's BB will demand more of Cam by multiples vs. any other coach he has ever had --- if Cam responds in the proper fashion the resulting production could be astounding!

I don’t want to debate the semantics of “work ethic” but I don’t view this example as questionable work ethic at all. I see work ethic as being the first guy in and the last guy out of the building, absorbing as much tape as possible. I see work ethic as keeping your body in tip top shape throughout the year, not just when you are gearing up for training camp.

I think this example is more about maturity and attitude, and when Newton came into the league, he would wear his emotion on his sleeve and be really down when the team lost. In that regard he did mature and realize you’re not going to win every week. But let’s not act like Cam is the only person to be upset on the sideline. I’ve seen even the goat Brady have quite a few temper tantrums way past his rookie and sophomore season.

 

[Conflicted Panthers fan]

Hey conflicted thanks for taking the time.

How do you feel Cam handles media/fan pressure. Boston/New England is notorious for being a hard place to play due to overly critical talking heads and fans. Is he someone who openly exchanges with talking heads and becomes noticably rattled or is he more "let my play do the talking " type.

Also what do you feel is his most valuable attribute as a qb/leader

It’ll be interesting to see Cam interacting with Boston media, which will certainly be more critical than local Charlotte media. For the most part, Cam has come to be pretty reserved with his answers (not his wardrobe) in postgame press conferences. I imagine under Belichick this trend will continue, as Bill is famous for mumbling his way through pressers giving little to no information.

Cam will openly exchange with reporters but it’s usually lighthearted jokes. He has put his foot in his mouth on a couple of occasions in pressers, and no doubt there will be reporters trying to make a name for themselves by “getting” Cam. I think it’ll be fun to be honest. I think Cam ended up in the best place possible in regards to the coaching he’ll have, and I’m sure they’ll give him tips on handling the Boston media.

Most valuable trait for a qb/leader? There are a lot of choices but most valuable for an NFL QB I would say is fearlessness in big moments and the ability for your teammates to look you in the eye and know this guy is going to give everything he’s got to lead us to the win.

 

[Conflicted Panthers fan]

Yet you won’t/can’t pick any games, or stats that specify pocket success. Nothing but 100% belief in an opinion you haven’t shown anything to prove and refuse to go to the actual source. Hide as far behind the “cherry-picked” stats and stay away from actually watching the games and finding the truth.

Guess we’re done if we can’t use actual play to prove a point.

Box score scouts