Lifelong Panthers fan AMA (ask me anything) Cam Edition

[JackBauer187]

Here is the other post I referred to in my response to you



Here are some numbers on Newton. From 2011 to now newton has thrown 3980 passes.
The following is a list of the other 12 QBs who have thrown 3500 or more.
Brady
Brees
Ryan
Ben
Rivers
Rogers
Wilson
Stafford
Dalton
Eli
Flacco
Fitz

here is where newton ranks among them.
completion %. Last of 13
Pass yards 12 of 13 (only ahead of fitz)
Ypa 9 of 13 (Eli, fitz, Dalton, Flacco)
Td passes. 11 of 13 (fitz and Flacco)
Td % 9 of 13 (fitz dalton Flacco Eli)
Int. 7 of 13 (
Int % 10 of 13 (rivers, Eli, fitz)
Rating 11 of 13 ( fitz and Flacco )

That is where he stacks up as a passer against QBs who have started or mostly started since he came into the league.

And all those QBs had the exact same circumstances and context as Cam. Right? Because stats are all that matters. Were any of them their teams starting FB. Who had worse WRs? OL? Coaches? System? This isn’t baseball. Put any of those QBs in Carolina for a decade and see how things would have changed for them. How about we take away Drew Brees’ ability to check down? That seems fair.

 

[JackBauer187]

That seems reasonable.

Cam has started 125 regular season NFL games. Accolades are as follows:
1st Team All-Pro (1)
2nd Team All-Pro (0)
NFL MVP (1)
Pro Bowl (3)
NFL OPY (1)
Bert Bell Award (1)
Super Bowl appearances (1)
Super Bowl MVP (0)
Super Bowl rings (0)
NFL Passer Rating Leader (0)
NFL Passing Touchdowns Leader (0)
NFL Completion % Leader (0)


In his first 125 regular season NFL starts Steve Young accomplished:
1st Team All-Pro (3)
2nd Team All-Pro (2)
NFL MVP (2)
Pro Bowl (6)
NFL OPY (2)
Bert Bell Award (2)
Super Bowl appearances* (1)
Super Bowl MVP (1)
Super Bowl rings* (1)
NFL Passer Rating Leader (6)
NFL Passing Touchdowns Leader (3)
NFL Completion % Leader (5)

One of the most notable things about these stats is that 5-times in a 6-year span Young was either 1st-Team or 2nd-Team All-Pro...a testament to his incredible consistency. He tacked on another 2nd-Team All-Pro selection in 1998 but I didn't count that one because it was after his 125th start and that's where the line is drawn for an apples-to-apples comparison. In 1998 he again led the league in passing-TD's and was selected to the Pro Bowl (neither included above).

*Young has played in 2 Super Bowl games and has 3 Super Bowl rings but obviously for this comparison only his results as the starter were counted.

What did Young’s resume look like at the same AGE as Cam is now? And how many different message boards do you plan on infesting just to take shots at Cam? Just quit lying and saying “you wish Cam the best” while you trash him.

 

[JackBauer187]

I think the comparison to young is derailing the thread a bit guys. Newton is great we are lucky to have him and I think we all hope he is and remains healthy.

As a part of that problem, I agree. Wasn’t what I wanted to discuss but I still jumped in with both feet.

 

[Ring 6]

And all those QBs had the exact same circumstances and context as Cam. Right? Because stats are all that matters. Were any of them their teams starting FB. Who had worse WRs? OL? Coaches? System? This isn’t baseball. Put any of those QBs in Carolina for a decade and see how things would have changed for them. How about we take away Drew Brees’ ability to check down? That seems fair.

Ok we just aren’t going to agree. I’m looking at a players career and believe the way he has played tells me how good a player he is. You are blaming coaching and system and players around him.
A conversation will go nowhere because we have completely different standards in evaluating players.
We will have to agree to disagree.

 

[JackBauer187]

Ok we just aren’t going to agree. I’m looking at a players career and believe the way he has played tells me how good a player he is. You are blaming coaching and system and players around him.
A conversation will go nowhere because we have completely different standards in evaluating players.
We will have to agree to disagree.

That’s cool. I tend to evaluate by looking at each QB and his surroundings. Any 2nd grader could evaluate if all it was about was stats.

 

[Conflicted Panthers fan]

And all those QBs had the exact same circumstances and context as Cam. Right? Because stats are all that matters. Were any of them their teams starting FB. Who had worse WRs? OL? Coaches? System? This isn’t baseball. Put any of those QBs in Carolina for a decade and see how things would have changed for them. How about we take away Drew Brees’ ability to check down? That seems fair.

exactly, you can make any lazy disingenuous narrative you want with numbers.

it’s a lot easier to make your flawed argument using only stats as if we’re not talking about whats literally dubbed “the ultimate team sport”

At least it’s easy to tell who is just totally ignorant on a subject when they go that route. Watch the tape, then talk.

 

[Conflicted Panthers fan]

LOL knowing YOU saw the blatant NON CALLED pass interference on Gronk after it was called....worst fix call of that season. You need to stop laughing at members here. You've already proven you're just trolling.

God bless

 

[RASTAN99]

What did Young’s resume look like at the same AGE as Cam is now?

Not relevant.

The relevant metric is an equivalent number of opportunities and what was produced during said opportunities.

 

[Ring 6]

That’s cool. I tend to evaluate by looking at each QB and his surroundings. Any 2nd grader could evaluate if all it was about was stats.

So you have no idea what I am talking about then. I am evaluating the player and BACKING UP THAT EVALUATION with the statistics that show what he did compared to others.
What I do not do is elevate the level of play I see with excuses.

 

[JackBauer187]

So you have no idea what I am talking about then. I am evaluating the player and BACKING UP THAT EVALUATION with the statistics that show what he did compared to others.
What I do not do is elevate the level of play I see with excuses.

Any points you made could have been done by a child who can search PFR. All numbers-based in a uniform package. That ain’t how football works.

 

[JackBauer187]

Not relevant.

The relevant metric is an equivalent number of opportunities and what was produced during said opportunities.

With the same coaches, players? After 4 years to prepare for the sweetest gig in the NFL. Cam took over a historically bad offense and made them top 5 his rookie year.

Now about that other part.

 

[RASTAN99]

With the same coaches, players? After 4 years to prepare for the sweetest gig in the NFL. Cam took over a historically bad offense and made them top 5 his rookie year.

Now about that other part.

What are you predicting for Cam this year and the following 4?

 

[DropKickFlutie]

What did Young’s resume look like at the same AGE as Cam is now? And how many different message boards do you plan on infesting just to take shots at Cam? Just quit lying and saying “you wish Cam the best” while you trash him.

Steve Young's stats are completely inflated. He had Jerry Rice his ENTIRE career. And a loaded offense at every other position too and coaching continuity. Even with all this he couldn't beat the Packers repeatedly or the Cowboys except for one year when he had both Deion Sanders and Charles Haley. Look at his playoff stats, he's like a 1:1 td/int ratio in the playoffs even including his superbowl stats.

All this is moot. Boston is still a town where people think Stidham vs Newton is a legit debate. A town with major racial bias but blinders to ever admitting it.

.

 

[RASTAN99]

Steve Young's stats are completely inflated.

All this is moot. Boston is still a town where people think Stidham vs Newton is a legit debate. A town with major racial bias but blinders to ever admitting it.

.

Young's stats & accomplishments aren't understated or overstated --- they are exactly what they are.

There is definitely a case to be made that Cam played for an inferior organization and had poor coaching...but a feeble attempt at denigrating Steve Young's accomplishments (which are right there in black & white as evidenced by the record book) doesn't help to make the case.

Cam has never been coached hard.

He and Rivera arrived at the same time and Ron got onto the hot-seat PDQ and it was clear that if the organization was going to part ways with anyone it would definitely be Ron vs. Cam --- put another way, Cam had the power over Ron, not vice-versa.

BB has handed Cam a life-line and given him a MASSIVE opportunity and I hope BB coaches him harder than any player he's ever coached --- if he does so, AND Cam is receptive and does exactly as BB tells him to, the resulting production could be astounding.

I believe the Panthers should have kept Cam, the downside for doing so was basically nil, and the potential upside was MASSIVE. I'm still perplexed as to why they didn't...one day we'll find out.

The ball is in Cam's court and it's going to be real interesting to see how he handles it...

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Young's stats & accomplishments aren't understated or overstated --- they are exactly what they are.

There is definitely a case to be made that Cam played for an inferior organization and had poor coaching...but a feeble attempt at denigrating Steve Young's accomplishments (which are right there in black & white as evidenced by the record book) doesn't help to make the case.

Cam has never been coached hard.

He and Rivera arrived at the same time and Ron got onto the hot-seat PDQ and it was clear that if the organization was going to part ways with anyone it would definitely be Ron vs. Cam --- put another way, Cam had the power over Ron, not vice-versa.

BB has handed Cam a life-line and given him a MASSIVE opportunity and I hope BB coaches him harder than any player he's ever coached --- if he does so, AND Cam is receptive and does exactly as BB tells him to, the resulting production could be astounding.

I believe the Panthers should have kept Cam, the downside for doing so was basically nil, and the potential upside was MASSIVE. I'm still perplexed as to why they didn't...one day we'll find out.

The ball is in Cam's court and it's going to be real interesting to see how he handles it...

Nobody's denigrating Young. Maybe it wasn't you but some are twisting the argument. It isn't comparing Young's entire career to Newton. It's that each got a major opportunity at age30 and age31, respectively. And there is a lot to be excited about for Newton given that he's shown a lot more than Stidham, and also happens to have also done more before age30 than Young did before age30.




.

 

[RASTAN99]

Nobody's denigrating Young. Maybe it wasn't you but some are twisting the argument. It isn't comparing Young's entire career to Newton. It's that each got a major opportunity at age30 and age31, respectively. And there is a lot to be excited about for Newton given that he's shown a lot more than Stidham, and also happens to have also done more before age30 than Young did before age30.

Sure they are.

Young was never the named starter going into an NFL season until his 7th year in the league so making "before age 30" comparisons is totally irrelevant.

We agree that there are reasons to be excited about Cam in the QB role for the Patriots --- the BB + Cam combo could produce EPIC results...

...but it all hinges on Cam and his willingness to subjugate himself to BB and do exactly as told, 100% of the time.

This is a very big hurdle and I am very interested to see how it plays out...

Curious, for those of you who have attended Pat's practices in the past...what's it like?

Serious? All business?

Do they play music?

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Sure they are.

Young was never the named starter going into an NFL season until his 7th year in the league so making "before age 30" comparisons is totally irrelevant.

We agree that there are reasons to be excited about Cam in the QB role for the Patriots --- the BB + Cam combo could produce EPIC results...

...but it all hinges on Cam and his willingness to subjugate himself to BB and do exactly as told, 100% of the time.

This is a very big hurdle and I am very interested to see how it plays out...

Curious, for those of you who have attended Pat's practices in the past...what's it like?

Serious? All business?

Do they play music?

There's actually music all practice long on the Patriots. Not sure if you know what you're talking about.....


.

 

[1960Pats]

Has he kept quiet? I feel like he's already released like 4 different hype videos ? This guy puts something out like once a week. I personally don't care but fully expect Boston media and fans to go after him because they're not used to a starting QB being like this (and also being black)

I don't think he's done much talking since he signed with the Pats. He got the word. Silence is golden.

 

[1960Pats]

There were a few discussions early in the offseason that Stidum would be the starter and the team doesn't need to sign Newton. Then when the unthinkable happened, it switched to "Newton won't beat Stidum". There were threads with a poll with more people picking Stidum to still be the starter.

I've joked about this many times because of those threads. I'm actually quite surprised you haven't noticed as there's many threads discussing they'd rather go with Stidum for no reason over Newton.

I must have missed them.

 

[1960Pats]

What did Young’s resume look like at the same AGE as Cam is now? And how many different message boards do you plan on infesting just to take shots at Cam? Just quit lying and saying “you wish Cam the best” while you trash him.

I think there are many of us who weren't Cam fans but wish the man the best now that he's a Patriot. I'm still not sure that he wasn't brought in to light a fire under Stid the kid.